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LONG Suggestion: Affairs


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#1 Conker

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 11:53 AM

I made this suggestion a couple of weeks ago, on the forums for Lord Mirabbo's Imoen Romance Mod (the ToB part). Though he was interested in the idea, not wanting to push the release date back to 2007, he declined. And then I kinda got those forums closed by calling the moderation conservative, so the idea was lost to limbo. Until now!

Oh, before we go any further, this rests on the possibility of the PC and Imoen being able to have a romantic relationship. If I remember rightly, this isn't 'officially' decided yet. But, the idea is here, for posterity.

What about the possibility of implementing affairs? I haven't seen this suggested anywhere else, or implemented in any other mods (Just shoot me now if a couple of threads below this is a "LET'S HAVE AFFAIRS!!!11" thread), and I think it could prove to be an original and emotionally evocative idea. I'll divide it into two sections. Oh, and as for references to a "Love Rating", in the first section, I explain it in the second bit. Here goes:

You cheating on Imoen:

Firstly, with whom? The most likely candidate I can think of for this is Viconia. She would probably enjoy it deeply - taking pleasure in getting away with it under Imoen's nose. And also, Viconia could possibly open to this with a female PC - she seems to use sex as a means to acquire power, she seems to be accustomed to 'unusual' sex experiences, and along with the pleasure of being in such a 'forbidden love affair', I can personally easily see her revelling in being the PC's 'mistress', in a male PC-Imoen relationship or a female PC-Imoen relationship.
I can't think of any other NPCs likely to be willing to put themselves in such a position who would also be a believable attractive prospect. (Anomen is certainly amorous enough, but even with the fall to CN, I doubt he'd do it. Honour is important to him, in a twisted way. Edwin is 'loose moralled' enough, but gives the impression of viewing himself as too important to be a 'bit on the side'). So, for the purposes of the rest of this post, I'll assume Viconia is the one who it is possible to have an affair with.

So, let's say that at some point in the relationship with Imoen, after romance has started, but before any sex (To contrast the "ease" of Viconia with the "difficulty" of Imoen (presuming Imoen isn't portrayed as a "quick and easy" type, which I don't think would really be in character)). With a progression of increasingly suggestive dialogues, the opportunity to cheat on Imoen with Viconia could occur. If you refuse, depending on how it is handled, Viconia could do any number of things, from furiously leaving the party to telling Imoen that you did sleep with her (Perhaps you'd need a certain Charisma and/or Love rating to get out of this one).
If you accepted, however, the process of an affair could begin. How it developed would be up to you - you could keep it going, always risking Imoen finding out, or you could try and end it; but what's to stop Viconia telling Imoen, if you end it with her, out of spite?
Depending on your Love Rating when Imoen finds out, she'll have a different reaction. It could, for example, knock off 20 points. This would have different effects for different relationships. For example, if Imoen was previously head over heels in love with you, she may forgive this. If, however, you treated her like crap, she'd likely leave. Hell, depending on just how you and Imoen set up your relationship, maybe she wouldn't mind (though the idea of Imoen agreeing to an 'open' relationship seems quite unlikely).
Oh, and then we factor in the reactions of the other characters as THEY find out. We could have the difficulty of convincing, say, Haer'Dalis, not to tell Imoen what he has perceived. Anyway...

The following Love Ratings could affect dialogues in the mod.
Love Ratings (obviously, these could be fine-tuned, to allow more sensitive than "happy, unhappy, medium", and such, and in fact should be):
0-10: Leaves the party, possibly attacks you, depending on the reason for leaving.
10-20: Stays in the party, doesn't like you, though, and breaks up with you
20-30: Stays with you, but is unhappy in the relationship. At less than 25, the chance occurs for her to begin an affair (which would increase her Love Rating, ironically, as it would make it easier for her to tolerate being in the relationship with you, but a "HAVINGAFFAIR" global would have been flagged)
30-40: "Medium" in the relationship - likes you, but wouldn't stick around if you mistreated her.
40-50: Really likes you. You've been a real prince.
50-60: Head over heels obsessive love. Scary stuff. Passionate.
60-65: You'd have to work damn hard to keep her interested enough to get this.

Now, as for the second idea...

Imoen cheating on you:
Who with? Hmm. I can think of two candidates. Haer'Dalis, a CN Anomen, and Viconia. I'm scared of all the waffling I'm doing, so I won't explain these.
Although, with Viconia, the potential for a great "You cheat on Imoen with Viconia, then later dump Viconia before Imoen finds out, but Imoen isn't happy in your relationship, so Viconia, seeing this, seduces Imoen in order to get revenge on you for dumping her, and then reveals all in an emotional scene that tears you an Imoen apart" scenario abounds :).
Anyway... Yeah, it could be possible that, at certain Love Ratings, or at certain dialogues, Imoen could begin an affair. There could be slight hints of this. Depending on who you have in your party, they could give you their observations - Or perhaps you would be able to overhear the conversation of, say, Mazzy, frantically urging Imoen to "give up her course of deceit" - but not know what she's referring to. Or Aerie asking Jaheira if she thinks she should tell you that she's seen Imoen and her lover together. Hmm. Anyway, evenutally, you would find out, whether through Imoen telling you or other means, and depending on the love rating, you may have the choice to take her back (If you haven't managed to improve it since she began the affair (which would make it more likely for her to tell you), then she may just leave you - and the party, if treated badly enough - to be with the other person! Well, I can see this happening with Haer'Dalis. With CN Anomen, he'd probably fight you. Viconia would probably just laugh at the both of you and then leave.

So depending on Love Ratings, the relationship wouldn't necessarily be over after an affair by either party - but it can be safely said that it could never reach the heights of love and passion (Such as that 60-65 rating of dialogues) as the relationships where no affair took place. Or at least, no affair that was discovered...

So there's my idea. I waffled on a lot (and used far, far too many parenthesis). Sorry. I have trouble being concise. I think it has a lot of potential, though. I'd be tempted to do this myself if I had the coding ability.
As it is, if anyone really likes this idea, and wants to either use it in this mod, or even another mod or an entirely new mod, then I'd be willing to offer help in the forms of ideas and dialogue writing (Though not really evidenced in this post, because I wanted to get the damn thing over with, I have a way with words, when I try).

Anyway, let me know what you think. I invite criticism.

Edited by Conker, 13 April 2005 - 11:57 AM.


#2 Andyr

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 12:37 PM

I didn't think this mod was going to necessarily be a romance mod.
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#3 Conker

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 02:19 PM

I didn't think this mod was going to necessarily be a romance mod.

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Oh, before we go any further, this rests on the possibility of the PC and Imoen being able to have a romantic relationship. If I remember rightly, this isn't 'officially' decided yet. But, the idea is here, for posterity.

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I may have been a tad unclear. My intended meaning was that in the event a romantic relationship is incorporated into this mod, I offer this suggestion up for use, if so desired, along with any help needed. Or, failing this mod, any other one, I suppose - But I do have a particular soft spot for Imoen, so...

#4 Andyr

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Posted 13 April 2005 - 03:14 PM

Ah, right. :)
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#5 Delight

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 03:46 PM

How about instant killing <CHARNAME> after his affair is exposed?
Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .
...

#6 Caedwyr

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Posted 14 April 2005 - 04:42 PM

Imoen fans are scary.
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#7 Andyr

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 05:58 AM

Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .

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When is this?

Caedwyr: Yes.
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#8 SimDing0

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:00 AM

Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .

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When is this?

Possibly one of the high points of the SPECTACULARLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL writing of Mirrabbo's Imoen Romance, where you attempt to rape her and she kills you at the last moment.

Edited by SimDing0, 15 April 2005 - 06:01 AM.

Repeating cycle of pubes / no pubes.

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#9 Hendryk

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:09 AM

Ah, that's why I never heard of it. Don't like the touchy-feelie stuff myself.
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#10 Andyr

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:10 AM

Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .

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When is this?

Possibly one of the high points of the SPECTACULARLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL writing of Mirrabbo's Imoen Romance, where you attempt to rape her and she kills you at the last moment.

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Oh, so not any in-character orginal game content?
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#11 SimDing0

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 06:12 AM

I the we can safely assume that anything from the Imoen Romance doesn't have much of a foundation in original game content, no.

Edited by SimDing0, 15 April 2005 - 06:15 AM.

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#12 Delight

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 12:55 PM

Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .

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When is this?

Possibly one of the high points of the SPECTACULARLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL writing of Mirrabbo's Imoen Romance, where you attempt to rape her and she kills you at the last moment.

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Possibly, I didn't play that mod and I only heard that this atrocity has taken place in it.
I really hate instant kills.
<CHARNAME> is killed by the wrath of mod creator, not by Imoen.
I think that cheating on Imoen would be a great occasion to include another instant kill, preferably with Imoen turning into a squirrel and eating <CHARNAME> alive without giving him a chance to defend himself (in cutscene mode).

Edited by Delight, 15 April 2005 - 01:03 PM.

...

#13 Delight

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Posted 15 April 2005 - 01:04 PM

Imoen is proven to be able to easily murder half-god PC if he hurts her :devil: .

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When is this?

Possibly one of the high points of the SPECTACULARLY DEEP AND EMOTIONAL writing of Mirrabbo's Imoen Romance, where you attempt to rape her and she kills you at the last moment.

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Possibly, I didn't play that mod and I only heard that this atrocity has taken place in it.
I really hate instant kills.
<CHARNAME> is killed by the wrath of mod creator, not by Imoen.
I think that cheating on Imoen would be a great occasion to include another instant kill, preferably with Imoen turning into a bunny and eating <CHARNAME> alive without giving him a chance to defend himself (in cutscene mode).

Ooops. Wrong button :whistling: ...

Edited by Delight, 15 April 2005 - 01:07 PM.

...

#14 Conker

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:06 AM

Forgetting the whole Mirabbo insta-kill thing... (something I personally found to be an absurd part of that particular mod)... does anyone actually have any thoughts on my idea? I mean, hell, even if you hate it, it took me a while to write all that out. So let me know, please.

Edited by Conker, 16 April 2005 - 08:06 AM.


#15 SimDing0

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 08:08 AM

The idea's an interesting one (yeh, uh, sorry for the distinct diversion of the thread), but I don't really see why you're suggesting it for an Imoen Relationship, as opposed to "other stuff that definitely involves romances". Are you specifically keen on having it for Imoen, rather than the people who actually romance the PC?

Edited by SimDing0, 16 April 2005 - 08:11 AM.

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#16 Conker

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Posted 16 April 2005 - 01:23 PM

Are you specifically keen on having it for Imoen, rather than the people who actually romance the PC?

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If by people who actually romance the PC, you mean the Bioware romances, well, I wasn't really thinking of those.
The reason I was applying the idea to Imoen was firstly because the idea came to me while playing that mod, and secondly, because I think she's a much more 'human' character than the others (not in the less elvish sense). Just think about it. Aerie, for example, couldn't be a bigger stereotype if she tried. You can predict her reaction to every line in the entire game. Any affair in a relationship with her, well, it may as well not involve her at all - her only reaction would be a variation of "How could you!? I'm so hurt. Boo hoo. Throwaway reference to the loss of my wings. Insult. Now I will leave the party.". Jaheira's only a little better, and annoying in her own right. Viconia, being the one I had envisioned as the 'other woman', doesn't count. Imoen, however, seems to have much more of a real personality.
As for mod-romances... Well, it would be natural that I'd make the suggestion for an upcoming mod (which may include a romance) that I am particularly keen on playing, n'est pas? And this would be that mod. Quitch's writing skills (as shown in the 'teaser' threads) appear to be superb, and Imoen is a very likeable character*. Rather than a new, "proving herself vastly superior to all others in the party in every dialogue" character, such as certain mod-NPCs out there, she's realistic, with depths, and undergoes some interesting development throughout the series. So that's why I suggested this in the context of a relationship with Imoen. Though, even if Quitch doesn't include a romance in this, I'll nonetheless be downloading it the second it's up :)


*The only problem with Imoen being that she's actually a bit of a crap (power-wise)character when one already has Edwin-The-Wonder-Mage in their party. Can't have everything, though :P

#17 Delight

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Posted 17 April 2005 - 10:50 AM

Imoen, however, seems to have much more of a real personality.

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A real personality?
IMO Imoen is most underdeveloped NPC in BG series.
Besides she appears to be a stupid and uninteresting person.
Not someone I would befriend IRL.
I don't like her as she is.
What I like in her is her potential.
I think that her upbringing by Winthrop saved her from the darkness, and made her childish and shallow at the same time...
I think that if she had a good mentor, she could be more than a mere cutpurse.
With her extremely high dexterity and great endurance she would be a great fighter, or even better, a spellsword...
And without Winthrop's cheerfulness and sense of humor :wub: ...
...

#18 Jinnai

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Posted 27 April 2005 - 07:21 PM

Imoen, however, seems to have much more of a real personality.

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A real personality?
IMO Imoen is most underdeveloped NPC in BG series.

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Actually I haveto admit you are right as she was litterly a last minute introduction for BG1 and for BG2 she planned to die until late in the project.
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