31 replies to this topic

[Ebon]

I know hell is inhabited by Demons (anarchy & destruction) and Devils (corruption, brilliance & power.) I also know they're fighting each other. I'm just curious what happens when a side wins.

Would they go on to conquer the humans' (humanoids') world? Sounds appropriate.
Would they even mobilize """"satanists"""" (you know who... unexiled Drow) to finally show who's supposed to rule? Again, not inappropriate.

EDIT: sorry for duplicating posts. Didn't mean to. Moderators may delete them.

Edited by Ebon, 03 July 2005 - 03:33 AM.

[Stone Wolf]

They'd probably overwhelm the Upper Planes fairly quickly. Either side could do so on their own. I don't think the Yugoloths would let either side win though--they prefer the war as it is.

[Archmage Silver]

Then there are the gods/goddesses of the Realms, they would not accept demons/devils stealing their petitioners. And Overlord Ao would be angry if his precious Balance was shaken by a bunch of lower plane denizens.

[Ebon]

Then there are the gods/goddesses of the Realms, they would not accept demons/devils stealing their petitioners. And Overlord Ao would be angry if his precious Balance was shaken by a bunch of lower plane denizens.

I wouldn't think it's just as easy as Ao saying "No, you won't." Besides, demons also have their own gods.

Edited by Ebon, 04 July 2005 - 02:56 AM.

[Feanor]

Then there are the gods/goddesses of the Realms, they would not accept demons/devils stealing their petitioners. And Overlord Ao would be angry if his precious Balance was shaken by a bunch of lower plane denizens.

I wouldn't think it's just as easy as Ao saying "No, you won't." Besides, demons also have their own gods.

No, they don't. The gods who reside in Baator or Abyss would be as pissed off by a fiendish invasion of the Prime as much as the good powers, because they depend on their petitioners and such an event could threaten their position.

[NiGHTMARE]

If by the demon's gods you mean those demon lords who have worshippers, such as Baphomet, Demogorgon, Jubilex, etc then they're only Demipowers. As such, they wouldn't stand a chance against the combined might of even just Faerun's Lesser Powers, let alone the Intermediate and Greater Powers.

As for the other evil gods of Baator and the Abyss, most of them have mortal worshippers, so they'd lose vast amounts of power (or die in some cases) if those worshippers got killed off. Thus even Lolth, Beshaba, Umberlee, Sekolah etc would fight back against such an invasion. Pretty much the only evil deity of Faerun I can think of who might support the demons/devils would be Shar, since her ultimate goal is the end of the world.

BTW the celestials of the Upper Planes are hardly a pushover. Perhaps the fiends would win in the end, but the war would almost certainly last for thousands of years.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 04 July 2005 - 06:15 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Earth's history surely is a good source of ideas for D&D, no need to invent it all. Just as it is with the Blood War, you could even see a message there, if you want to, that war prophits only mercenaries and no side ever "wins" anything.

[Ebon]

Earth's history surely is a good source of ideas for D&D, no need to invent it all. Just as it is with the Blood War, you could even see a message there, if you want to, that war prophits only mercenaries and no side ever "wins" anything.

Good point Silver. Perhaps that's why Doomsday is so far away...

[NiGHTMARE]

In more recent years, war has mainly profited those politicians who oppose it...

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 05 July 2005 - 07:08 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Don't know about Blair then... he supported Bush somewhat, and Bush likes war to be sure. Blair didn't take much damage from that, actually he's quite successful at the moment.

[NiGHTMARE]

Are you kidding? Enormous public outcry, internal investigations, Britain's relationship with the rest of Europe (especially France) becoming even worse that it already was... heck it was pretty much the only issue which came even close to losing him the last general election.

[Andyr]

Wouldn't happen.
Too many vested interests on both sides.

I would concur; I think the Blood War is pretty much eternal.

[Archmage Silver]

Are you kidding? Enormous public outcry, internal investigations, Britain's relationship with the rest of Europe (especially France) becoming even worse that it already was... heck it was pretty much the only issue which came even close to losing him the last general election.

Yes, all that is true. But speaking of Blair, not Britain as whole, Blair did get his share of troubles but managed to avoid further actions and even won the election. That is what I meant when I said he is successful, successful personally. I wasn't looking at the whole affect on Britain's relations and otherwise. Not that I would either side with or against Blair or politicians in general, I'll leave that field to others.

[NiGHTMARE]

What I meant was that all those things would have affected him personally, in that he obviously didn't want them to happen .

[Archmage Silver]

He probably didn't think of that when he supported Bush's ideology. But enough of this, I don't think we are talking about Blood War now, are we?

[Bane]

Why would the celestials be easy to beat? I am guessing because the demons are never ending but would the celestials be just like the devils in the number they spawn or whatever? Also a lot of deities reside within the upper planes eh?

And yes the blood war is never ending, Asmodeus is too hardcore



But in the end, Bane owns you all!

[oralpain]

The celestials would be overwhelmed. Individually they are only slightly stronger overall and both the Baatezu and Tanar'ri out number them by a fantastic margin. I'm fairly certain that the celestials would hold out quite a while, but not indefinately.

Whole prime worlds/crystal spheres have been overrun and/or destroyed by fiends in the past and more will be in the future.

Dieties are far more limited in AD&D than people realize. They are not the all knowing, all powerful, infailable beings like those described in modern real world monotheistic religions. They have great power, and some have nearly absolute power over very specific areas, but generally they cannot single handedly destroy worlds, or speices, or millions strong armies of fiends, or whatever. Even coalitions of gods have trouble doing these thing. Also, regardless of the goal, there is always a diety somewhere that would support it.