I like Imoen. She's slap-bang at the centre of the story. I can't imagine a BG2 game without her prescence.
Thing is, my evil character is finding havng a squeaky-clean Neutral Good sidekick a bit wearing...
So, a suggestion, albeit one that would involve lots and lots of extra work; an Imoen that reflected the PC's alignment? She's your best friend, you grew up together, surely there's a kindred spirit there... Admittedly it'd be difficult to balance making her Evil with her cheery, chirpy nature, but it could be done. You could keep the majority of the dialog the same, it would just be the occasional hint here and there...
Does anyone agree...?
An Evil Imoen option?
Started by
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, Feb 26 2003 06:45 PM
22 replies to this topic
#2
Blucher
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Posted 26 February 2003 - 07:05 PM
I kind of like this idea. Some kind of rational can be found, I think. (Say, having her soul taken and/or corrupted by Bodhi somehow turns her NE...?)
I think the .dlg changes would be quite a bit more work however...
I think the .dlg changes would be quite a bit more work however...
#3
-Cybersquirt-
-Cybersquirt-
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- Guest
Posted 27 February 2003 - 02:48 AM
I would tend to disagree. While she is assumedly traumatized by Jon's dungeon rerun (I say assumedly because we're never really 'told' what happens to her) I don't see her going to evil.. maybe neutral, but not evil.
#4
-Guest-
-Guest-
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- Guest
Posted 27 February 2003 - 09:57 AM
Ah... not TURNING to Evil, but literally have her as Evil from the very start. Assume she has been an Evil character from the very beginning of the BGsaga. Just a very... cheerful Evil character.
Dialogs here and there would would need to be tweaked... her attitude might be 'we have to get payback from Irenicus' rather than 'we have to stop Irenicus'. I'd guess Neutral Evil. Same cheerful nature, same happy-go-lucky personality... just a more selfish and immoral outlook.
Dialogs here and there would would need to be tweaked... her attitude might be 'we have to get payback from Irenicus' rather than 'we have to stop Irenicus'. I'd guess Neutral Evil. Same cheerful nature, same happy-go-lucky personality... just a more selfish and immoral outlook.
#5
Unvoiced Anarchy
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Posted 27 February 2003 - 03:02 PM
Why not just insane. Leave her the way she is when you first discover her in the asylum.
Confused.
Terrified.
Psycotic.
Confused.
Terrified.
Psycotic.
#6
LSWSjr
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Creator of DHSTU
Posted 28 February 2003 - 03:02 AM
Ah, Evil/Insane/Dark Imoen, this takes me back to my former P&P days.
Quitch, I really do suggest you add an evil dimension to your Imoen Relationship Module. It is only fair that those evil Protagonists out there get a fair deal as well and aren't forced to merely imitate a "Good Guy/Gal" simply for the sake of Imoen.
LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off
Quitch, I really do suggest you add an evil dimension to your Imoen Relationship Module. It is only fair that those evil Protagonists out there get a fair deal as well and aren't forced to merely imitate a "Good Guy/Gal" simply for the sake of Imoen.
LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off
[QUOTE]*
In the end, when the chips are down, when you feel like its all over, you have to ask yourself "Was this the right way to be defeated by the inevitable?" and there is only one answer... "It is in this liftime, so I'll see ya in the next, Rowan T. of LSWSjr Publications signing off!"
*Rowan Tritton of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia.
In the end, when the chips are down, when you feel like its all over, you have to ask yourself "Was this the right way to be defeated by the inevitable?" and there is only one answer... "It is in this liftime, so I'll see ya in the next, Rowan T. of LSWSjr Publications signing off!"
*Rowan Tritton of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia.
#7
-Cybersquirt-
-Cybersquirt-
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- Guest
Posted 28 February 2003 - 10:40 PM
that's why we have Viconia B)Ah... not TURNING to Evil, but literally have her as Evil from the very start. Assume she has been an Evil character from the very beginning of the BGsaga. Just a very... cheerful Evil character.
Dialogs here and there would would need to be tweaked... her attitude might be 'we have to get payback from Irenicus' rather than 'we have to stop Irenicus'. I'd guess Neutral Evil. Same cheerful nature, same happy-go-lucky personality... just a more selfish and immoral outlook.
edit: I'm liking the sound of insane Imoen.. and that'd = chaotic ...chaotic neutral... yeah... I could see that.
#8
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 03 March 2003 - 12:50 AM
Ah... not TURNING to Evil, but literally have her as Evil from the very start. Assume she has been an Evil character from the very beginning of the BGsaga. Just a very... cheerful Evil character.
Note my "not changing the story" element in the mod overview.
Quitch, I really do suggest you add an evil dimension to your Imoen Relationship Module. It is only fair that those evil Protagonists out there get a fair deal as well and aren't forced to merely imitate a "Good Guy/Gal" simply for the sake of Imoen.
I believe this too is covered in the overview. Evil characters will have their options, have no fear.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#9
Littiz
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Posted 03 March 2003 - 04:42 AM
Irenicus himself speaks about Imoen's innocence.
Ever forward, my darling wind...
#10
LSWSjr
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Creator of DHSTU
Posted 13 March 2003 - 05:53 PM
I don't remember you speaking on it directly... Just that you weren't going to restrict who she would(n?t) react with in particular, but no specific reference to race/alignment/class was mentioned.I believe this too is covered in the overview. Evil characters will have their options, have no fear.
In such a case, when will we see some examples on Imoen Relationship Module interactions/dialogue examples for evil Protagonists and Imoen?
Also will you alter her variables so she does automatically leave the party, once it reaches a low reputation, or will you replace the variable with one based on the current status* of the Protagonist and Imoen?
*This based on the stage they have reached in their Friend/Lover-Inclined Relationship.
Thanks Again Quitch B)
LSWSjr of LSWSjr Productions Australia, signing off
[QUOTE]*
In the end, when the chips are down, when you feel like its all over, you have to ask yourself "Was this the right way to be defeated by the inevitable?" and there is only one answer... "It is in this liftime, so I'll see ya in the next, Rowan T. of LSWSjr Publications signing off!"
*Rowan Tritton of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia.
In the end, when the chips are down, when you feel like its all over, you have to ask yourself "Was this the right way to be defeated by the inevitable?" and there is only one answer... "It is in this liftime, so I'll see ya in the next, Rowan T. of LSWSjr Publications signing off!"
*Rowan Tritton of LSWSjr Publications/Productions/Studios Australia.
#11
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 15 March 2003 - 09:04 AM
In such a case, when will we see some examples on Imoen Relationship Module interactions/dialogue examples for evil Protagonists and Imoen?
When some are written. As I have said before, this project is waiting on the master slippage project, Return to Windspear. The idea is big, the team small...
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#12
kirkjobsluder
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Posted 25 November 2003 - 08:19 PM
This is the mod I most want to see happen (largely because I have my own vision for a micro-mod in these lines.) My personal opinion is that other NPCs face a crisis of consience due to less traumatic experiences than what is portrayed in the first chapter. If loosing your soul is not sufficient grounds for an existential crisis (and the PC is given an opportunity to switch alignments in the conclusion to SoA), then I don't know what is.
In addition, I think that the loss of her soul should have some consequences. Is it her soul that grounds her and makes her good? Could she be missing a consience? How does integrating into a matriarchal evil society affect her after extended imprisonment? At the very least, Imoen diserves a chance to not be nice and playful. For example, I can imagine her getting really shitty with the protagonist's love interest, to go for the emotional jugular and then have to deal with the consequences later. Or to go on a bender at the first opportunity and need to be bailed out of jail after failing to pick the pockets of a guard. At the very least, Imoen and the protagonist diserve at least one really huge sibling fight in which the little sister act gets dropped.
In addition, I think that the loss of her soul should have some consequences. Is it her soul that grounds her and makes her good? Could she be missing a consience? How does integrating into a matriarchal evil society affect her after extended imprisonment? At the very least, Imoen diserves a chance to not be nice and playful. For example, I can imagine her getting really shitty with the protagonist's love interest, to go for the emotional jugular and then have to deal with the consequences later. Or to go on a bender at the first opportunity and need to be bailed out of jail after failing to pick the pockets of a guard. At the very least, Imoen and the protagonist diserve at least one really huge sibling fight in which the little sister act gets dropped.
#13
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 26 November 2003 - 01:54 PM
One thing I can assure you of, this mod will happen. It's all a matter of how long it takes, and how long others will wait. Just don't destroy your BG2 CD's and you'll be fine.
For those who want an example of how you can toy with Imoen in any way you wish, pick up Return to Windspear when it comes out. There is an Imoen sub-plot. It's basic, but it gives PC's of all type a chance to interact.
For those who want an example of how you can toy with Imoen in any way you wish, pick up Return to Windspear when it comes out. There is an Imoen sub-plot. It's basic, but it gives PC's of all type a chance to interact.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#14
-d00d-
-d00d-
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Posted 27 November 2003 - 07:42 AM
Hahahahaha.pick up Return to Windspear when it comes out.
#15
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 30 November 2003 - 02:52 AM
Its got more AI than any other mod, more custom locations, more dialogue, new monsters, new items... what, you thought it was going to take us a weekend to do? 
We're doing things that no other mod has ever tried to, and that can take a while. When no one else can tell you how to do something because no one has done it before, well...
Its a mod which is still progressing, just think how many fall by the wayside and feel grateful that it has a dedicated team. What matters to me though is the dialogue, and at last count it has 113 000 words.
We're doing things that no other mod has ever tried to, and that can take a while. When no one else can tell you how to do something because no one has done it before, well...Its a mod which is still progressing, just think how many fall by the wayside and feel grateful that it has a dedicated team. What matters to me though is the dialogue, and at last count it has 113 000 words.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#16
-Ismail-
-Ismail-
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- Guest
Posted 12 January 2004 - 08:45 AM
Meh, there hardly IS any evil in the game. That which really is neutral is viewed as evil in that game.
Good - going about, helping others, fighting for the "right cause" etc
Neutral - going about, helping yourself gain more power/riches/cookies no matter whether the cause is evil or good.
Evil - going about, doing actively evil. Killing people for example, destroying civilians, applying torture, scheming to create chaos, death, suffering, war etc. IE, CAUSE evil. Not just look out for yourself, because as we very well know, you can also gain riches by helping the local paladins and rangers kill an evil dragon that terrorizes the innocent peasants, if you are to gain profit out of it once it's done. Or somesuch.
Good - going about, helping others, fighting for the "right cause" etc
Neutral - going about, helping yourself gain more power/riches/cookies no matter whether the cause is evil or good.
Evil - going about, doing actively evil. Killing people for example, destroying civilians, applying torture, scheming to create chaos, death, suffering, war etc. IE, CAUSE evil. Not just look out for yourself, because as we very well know, you can also gain riches by helping the local paladins and rangers kill an evil dragon that terrorizes the innocent peasants, if you are to gain profit out of it once it's done. Or somesuch.
#17
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 13 January 2004 - 01:46 AM
I can assure you that both this mod and Return to Windspear will feature chances for true evil.
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
#18
Auvrin
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Posted 23 January 2004 - 10:33 PM
Always refreshing when evil has it's place.I can assure you that both this mod and Return to Windspear will feature chances for true evil.
Of all things in this world... Our self built cages, are our worst design of hell.
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
Fear me simply because I'm blunt and honest.
*WARNING* I am rated R for suggestive themes and violent material. If you need a warning label don't leave home, cause there isn't a warning label on your front door.
-Pain is beatiful.-
#19
Jinnai
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Bye Sanzo! You'll play with me again next time?
Posted 27 January 2004 - 10:20 AM
True that, though i wish there were also more on the chaotic vs. law side...
#20
Quitch
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Perfection
Posted 28 January 2004 - 05:26 AM
Return to Windspear doesn't have much in the way of trying to balance those two, but I'll try and include more of that sort of thing in the Imoen mod. What I don't want to do though is effectively have dialogue whereby it's laid out in such a way as people just follow their alignment path.True that, though i wish there were also more on the chaotic vs. law side...
Past: Ascension, Return to Windspear, Imoen Relationship, The Broken Hourglass
"Perfection has no deadline"
