I have been seeing BG2 total conversions but Iam just wondering why nobody ever made or even planning on doing an IWD2 total conversion. I think it would be great to create a total conversion for IWD2, you could make it non-linear and it will have the 3rd ed rules and the enhanced Infinity engine..
how about IWD2?
Started by impe, Dec 06 2006 09:15 AM
26 replies to this topic
#2
Azkyroth
-
- Modder
-
- 3496 posts
Posted 06 December 2006 - 11:30 AM
I have been seeing BG2 total conversions but Iam just wondering why nobody ever made or even planning on doing an IWD2 total conversion. I think it would be great to create a total conversion for IWD2, you could make it non-linear and it will have the 3rd ed rules and the enhanced Infinity engine..
I have this vague feeling that it was experimentally determined that IWD2 doesn't even *have* the code needed for intra-party interaction, and that this was the reason Icewind Gate was abandoned, but my memory's a little fuzzy. Anyone have more to add?
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard
#3
grogerson
-
- Member
- 90 posts
Posted 06 December 2006 - 01:28 PM
Azkyroth is correct on this limitation, and there are others, including "bit" coding not in either BG. These make it very difficult to mod for. Easier to port it to BG2 (no small task in itself) then mod for it there.
I started another thread about porting IWD1 to BG2 some time ago. You might find some interesting reading there regarding the limitations of the IWD engines. You might want to look over in G3 and PPG as well for other threads on these games.
Maybe the first IWD port attempt will start again (and finish...). One can only hope.
I started another thread about porting IWD1 to BG2 some time ago. You might find some interesting reading there regarding the limitations of the IWD engines. You might want to look over in G3 and PPG as well for other threads on these games.
Maybe the first IWD port attempt will start again (and finish...). One can only hope.
#4
Azkyroth
-
- Modder
-
- 3496 posts
Posted 06 December 2006 - 03:32 PM
Meanwhile, is there anything to the skepticism I'm hearing about taking spell animation BAMs from IWD and adding them in mods for BG2?
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard
#5
Gort
-
- Validating
- 614 posts
Posted 07 December 2006 - 10:14 PM
There is some mod that ports IWD's casting graphics to BG2
#6
grogerson
-
- Member
- 90 posts
Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:12 PM
Icewind Dale casting graphics are part of the G3 tweak pack for BG2. Worked great for me.
#7
Azkyroth
-
- Modder
-
- 3496 posts
Posted 08 December 2006 - 06:52 PM
Yeah, I know about the casting graphics; I'm thinking of other animations, particularly the droolable "call lightning" BAM...
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard
#8
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 10 December 2006 - 10:20 AM
I have this vague feeling that it was experimentally determined that IWD2 doesn't even *have* the code needed for intra-party interaction, and that this was the reason Icewind Gate was abandoned, but my memory's a little fuzzy. Anyone have more to add?
IWD2 inter-party interactions is perfectly doable with some extra tweaking. I am working on a mod called IWD2 NPC and it has everything that BG2 has, ie inter-party banter, interjections, talks with PC, romances, player-initiated dialogues for 10 NPCs. The only difference is how you construct your party - ie you will import/export NPCs instead of meeting them in the game. On the good side you'll have any NPC you want available at any time, and I plan to have 5 or so versions of each NPC level wise. So, you can customize the party that ay as well (ie if you think that this paladin guy should really be at level 5 in the beginning not level 0). The mod is at the fairly advanced stage atm, I am thinking I need but a few more months before the first public release.
I think what IWD2 needs first is not a total conversion, but alternative story-lines for the game itself to make it richer in surprises and intrigue. As I am working on IWD2 NPCs I draft the 2 alternative story-lines to build into the game. There is no interest really in this project among the player audience, so I am reluctant to spend time at it atm. Tentatively it's called "Chimeras".
You can check both the progress on the IWD2NPCs and post your thoughts on Chimeras at G3:
IWD2NPCs forum: http://forums.gibber...p?showforum=116
Chimeras: http://forums.gibber...?showtopic=7787
#9
Ismail
-
- Member
- 423 posts
Squirrel Pride Worldwide!
Posted 13 December 2006 - 08:58 AM
IWD2 indeed DOES have some nifty graphics, as does PS:T, and the scroll icons look niftier. A mod that'd port THOSE over would be cool indeed...
Lahinguväljal joome, raisk!
#10
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 13 December 2006 - 05:55 PM
(Sigh) I do so hope to convert more modders into seeing in IWD2 more than a resource archive for patching BG games. That approach reminds me an old tale about an old lady who had a favorite old skirt. So, when she was given a new skirt she just cut it up into strips to patch her old one. All IWD2 needs is love, attention and well... yes, considerable amount of work. But when it's spent it has a potential to shine brighter than BG, because it has the platform for much, much more broad and complicated intrigue. Oh, well, we all have our dreams
#11
Ismail
-
- Member
- 423 posts
Squirrel Pride Worldwide!
Posted 14 December 2006 - 11:31 PM
I don't know if you noticed, but IWD2 is by far inferior to BG2. And not just because it's 3rd edition rules.
Lahinguväljal joome, raisk!
#12
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 15 December 2006 - 09:49 AM
Not really. It has a very good basic story, with a huge potential for complex politicking etc. IWD2 modding potential exceeds BG2's by an order of magnitude, because there are so many things that can be added to make it shine. As soon as you add joinable NPCs and alternative storylines, you beat BG2 hands-down, because the artwork is better, and the story is well... *new* to the player, instead of the 100 times played BG2 where you know every bloody leaf in the forest.
And heh, in my opinion, IWD2 gameplay and the ruleset beats BG2 hands down. It also opens things like Intimidation and Diplomacy to be used in the plot.... awsome.
IWD2 is definetly a game where a modder can make a noteceable difference, as opposite to BG2.
And heh, in my opinion, IWD2 gameplay and the ruleset beats BG2 hands down. It also opens things like Intimidation and Diplomacy to be used in the plot.... awsome.
IWD2 is definetly a game where a modder can make a noteceable difference, as opposite to BG2.
#13
Lord Ernie
-
- Modder
-
- 755 posts
Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:11 AM
Heh, so basically, Domi, IWD2 is better because there's more territory left unexplored? Or, in other words, it's better for modding cause it's a worse game from the start, and nobody has gone to the trouble of doing it yet, which will make sure the community notices you.
... That's not even entirely illogical. The problem is, people don't mod games because they have good 'modding potential', or most of the time not even to 'make a difference'. People tend to mod games they love, and in that respect, IWD2 is far worse off than BG2
.
... That's not even entirely illogical. The problem is, people don't mod games because they have good 'modding potential', or most of the time not even to 'make a difference'. People tend to mod games they love, and in that respect, IWD2 is far worse off than BG2
.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move - Douglas Adams
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world - Oscar Wilde
Give a man a fire, and he's warm for a day. But set a man on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life. - Terry Pratchett
#14
Kaeloree
-
- Administrator
-
- 9198 posts
Head Molder
Posted 16 December 2006 - 03:13 AM
Hate to be a downer, but this isn't an argument about which game is better for modding - though I would actually be very interested if one of you wanted to create a topic about it and continue discussing, because I think its a very interesting debate! 
But, back on topic...
But, back on topic...
- Liam
Modding Projects
Complete:
Arath NPC - Nephele NPC - Xulaye NPC - Iylos NPC - Ninde NPC - Darian NPC - Yeslick NPC - Adrian NPC - Dace NPC - Valerie NPC - Isra NPC
Viconia Friendship - Mazzy Friendship - Imoen Friendship - Yoshimo Friendship - Sarevok Friendship - Neera Expansion
IEP Extended Banter
Sarevok Romance
Haer'Dalis Romance
In Progress:
Khadion NPC - Delainy NPC - Sarine NPC
#15
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:55 AM
I think that the topic implies the game moddability, asking why IWD2 is not a subject of total conversions. Please, clip the thread, if it doesn't fit in, it's fine.
I will accept Lord Ernie's responce saying that 'they mod what they love', and would say that this would be a tad unapplicable to Total Conversions. Total Conversion by definition gets rid of the original game.
Now, if you don't love IWD2 rule-set, then you won't do TC for it, obviously.
Again, in regards to a TC - TC is almost unmanageable workload.
IWD2 offers a unique opportunity for making TC while doing only part of the work! By simply re-working the game. It will still have the novelty factor on your side - simply because people in BG community either never played IWD2, or never finished it, or played it only once. So, for TC or PC (partial conversion) IWD2 is a great, incredible platform - if you like the rule-set.
Heh, and now is the time for more experiments - I do aim to demonstrate IWD2 moddability and the difference modding makes for IWD2. I'd say that I'll consider the reaction "Domi's stuff is crap, I bet I can do better" or even the dreaded "Oh, cool, one can add NPCs in IWD2, why don't I add Imoen, Minsc and Jaheira?" as a success. IE modding needs to move on to expand its horizons, be that TUTU, TCs or IWD modding. We need new blood, new interests, we need to go over the wall of "IE modding? Cool, that's all these BG2 mods."
So, if you always wanted to make a TC, try "cheating" instead and see if you can make your life easier by turning toward IWD2. I postulate that we can address the "I want *another* IE game like BG2" feeling, by modding IWD2.
I will accept Lord Ernie's responce saying that 'they mod what they love', and would say that this would be a tad unapplicable to Total Conversions. Total Conversion by definition gets rid of the original game.
Now, if you don't love IWD2 rule-set, then you won't do TC for it, obviously.
Again, in regards to a TC - TC is almost unmanageable workload.
IWD2 offers a unique opportunity for making TC while doing only part of the work! By simply re-working the game. It will still have the novelty factor on your side - simply because people in BG community either never played IWD2, or never finished it, or played it only once. So, for TC or PC (partial conversion) IWD2 is a great, incredible platform - if you like the rule-set.
Heh, and now is the time for more experiments - I do aim to demonstrate IWD2 moddability and the difference modding makes for IWD2. I'd say that I'll consider the reaction "Domi's stuff is crap, I bet I can do better" or even the dreaded "Oh, cool, one can add NPCs in IWD2, why don't I add Imoen, Minsc and Jaheira?" as a success. IE modding needs to move on to expand its horizons, be that TUTU, TCs or IWD modding. We need new blood, new interests, we need to go over the wall of "IE modding? Cool, that's all these BG2 mods."
So, if you always wanted to make a TC, try "cheating" instead and see if you can make your life easier by turning toward IWD2.
I postulate that we can address the "I want *another* IE game like BG2" feeling, by modding IWD2.
#16
Tate
-
- Member
- 11 posts
Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:38 PM
I think that IWD2 would be a much better game if banter and NPC interaction was introduced. I found the story good (not as great or epic as the Baldur's Gate trilogy, but certainly good). One of the things that attracted me to BG2 more than BG1 was the party interaction, and I think IWD2 would be great. Especially since there really aren't many mods for it, and I'd like to play the game through with some differences rather than the same old thing again.
#17
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 16 December 2006 - 09:57 PM
I think the 3E ruleset alone makes IWD2 a more interesting tactical game to play than BG2. I love the idea of a TC as well... maybe someone could steal some BG2 maps for Athkatla and the surrounding areas, or BG1 Sword Coast maps and make a TC that has nothing to do with the Dales.
I also don't mind the lack of party interaction in the IWD series since it is more about creating a party and not a character to deal with the challenges of the world around you.
Anyway, I really hope this idea catches on. I still think there's a lot of potential for IE games (this from and NWN2 owner) that hasn't been tapped yet.
I also don't mind the lack of party interaction in the IWD series since it is more about creating a party and not a character to deal with the challenges of the world around you.
Anyway, I really hope this idea catches on. I still think there's a lot of potential for IE games (this from and NWN2 owner) that hasn't been tapped yet.
#18
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:33 AM
I think that IWD2 would be a much better game if banter and NPC interaction was introduced. I found the story good (not as great or epic as the Baldur's Gate trilogy, but certainly good). One of the things that attracted me to BG2 more than BG1 was the party interaction, and I think IWD2 would be great. Especially since there really aren't many mods for it, and I'd like to play the game through with some differences rather than the same old thing again.
Woo-hoo, great to hear that! Just give me few more months!
I think the 3E ruleset alone makes IWD2 a more interesting tactical game to play than BG2. I love the idea of a TC as well... maybe someone could steal some BG2 maps for Athkatla and the surrounding areas, or BG1 Sword Coast maps and make a TC that has nothing to do with the Dales.
Well, if you are going away from the Dales, though, you are facing the usual problem that TC encounters - namely insane amount of work involved and overoll poor result as compared to the professionaly made game.
I think that it's better to stay with the dales and pillage IWD1. BG1-2 maps will clash, because we are talking snow and different art style
Unless the story is padded with going after the exotic allies of Chimera AFTER Sevred hand - ie Thayvian Wizards chapter set in Thay and the Luskan Chapter set in Luskan that obviously sets PC to play with the Pirate Lords and Hosttower! Or you can expand Chultian chapter.... Or one can add the quest with the Water Ginnies and Abishai's for underwater environments - that's a connection that exist in the Ice Temple. In other words, IWD2 offers a huge, incredible potential for side-quest in various settings!
#19
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:37 AM
And, hey, even planar adventures can be plugged into the game, seeing how first you have that Chimera's envoy who flees to Sigil with the Monastery gal; or you can go after Isair and Madae into the Nine Hells/Abyss if they manage to flee from the Sevred Hand to their daddy.
Or, and there are Spine of the World mountains with the possible Dragons subplot via Sherincal. Avariel thrown in for a good measure.... staff like that.
See, everyone? IWD2 *screams* for modders!
Or, and there are Spine of the World mountains with the possible Dragons subplot via Sherincal. Avariel thrown in for a good measure.... staff like that.
See, everyone? IWD2 *screams* for modders!
#20
-Guest-
-Guest-
-
- Guest
Posted 17 December 2006 - 09:53 PM
Well, if you are going away from the Dales, though, you are facing the usual problem that TC encounters - namely insane amount of work involved and overoll poor result as compared to the professionaly made game.
I think that it's better to stay with the dales and pillage IWD1. BG1-2 maps will clash, because we are talking snow and different art style
In other words, IWD2 offers a huge, incredible potential for side-quest in various settings!
Actually you're right. And by pillaging IWD1 there is plenty more art for the game to expand with. I guess even with exisiting material IWD2 could be almost twice as big as it is now... wow, that would be something.
