14 replies to this topic

[Tempest]

Another odd request pertaining to my mod in progress, and again it fits better here. Does anyone have a link to an online dictionary of some sort for the halfling language? I'm thinking about Mazzy speaking a little in her native tongue during her romance with Darian (and possibly Darian as well-it's one of the languages he might have learned when studying the cultures of his people's allies and enemies), and I haven't been able to find a place with info on the halfling language. Dwarven, elven, and undercommon are all easy to find dictionaries for, but not halfling.

[cmorgan]

I have not been able to come up with a source for Halfling/Hin/Hobbit/LittlePeople, and have only minor (very small content) source for Dwarven. Perhaps we should gather a "language reference thread" for the tutorial section?

Kellen and berelinde has excellent hints for Elven, and I found one Drow reference (would have to look it up).

[Tempest]

Yep, I already have plenty of sources for Darian speaking in elven, but I'm trying to hunt down a source for Mazzy speaking in her native tongue. Doesn't have to be much-it'll just be a few words in certain parts of their romance.

[Kulyok]

I fully agree with Starcrunch here. However, perhaps this may prove useful:

http://www.nwnthevas...e/languages.htm

[Tempest]

That site, and all my PnP handbooks, indicate that the halflings do have their own spoken language, but it doesn't look like there's any sort of online dictionary for a halfling speaking in their native tongue. Not sure if I'll make up words to ostensibly be Mazzy speaking in her native language, or just drop the idea of her occasionally speaking halfling altogether. I mainly intended to use it to "flavor" some of her lovetalks with Darian, when she'd drop into using a word or two from her own language, similar to how Darian will occasionally add a word of elven into his speech (such as his term of endearment for Charname during his romance with her), but I might have to drop it.

[cmorgan]

Thanks for the link - I need to research this more! (Goes off to read avidly).

Edited by cmorgan, 11 June 2007 - 02:00 PM.

[Chevalier]

This 'might' help.

The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth is a reference book on the languages of Middle-earth by Ruth S. Noel. ISBN 978-0-395-29130-6 hardcover, ISBN 0-395-29130-5 paperback. The first edition, entitled The Languages of Middle-earth, was published in 1974 by Mirage Press, Baltimore. The revised version was published in 1980 by Houghton Mifflin. Ruth S. Noel, also known as Atanielle Annyn Noel, is the author of The Mythology of Middle-earth.

Pages 16 through 34 contain surveys of the languages of the Hobbits and of the Rohirrim. They are both similar to Old English or Anglo-Saxon. John Ronald Reuel Tolkien, creator of Middle-earth, was a professor of this language, and a great expert on it. A few words are also Middle English or local dialect place-names. Both lists are in alphabetical order.

You might be able to find this book and just read the pages you need or come up with some old Anglo-Saxon sayings. This would be good because english speakers might almost be able to understand it and it would make sense and not be jiberish.

[Kaeloree]

I would personally suggest avoiding having Mazzy speak 'halfling', made up or not, because it would stand out from any other mods which add content to Mazzy, and would possibly even throw immersion out the window for some players who like lots of continuity with characters.

It would be a great addition, but keep in mind it could have adverse effects on mod/game continuity and mod/mod continuity.

[berelinde]

To be entirely honest, I am not much in favor of *any* NPC speaking a "native tongue." Viconia does it, and it annoys me, but she's the only one. None of the non-drow elves or the dwarves speak anything other than common (unless you count the universal dwarvish Scottish accent). Including elvish is a borderline case, because the books do it, but even then, it stands out in the game as mod-material.

Also, I'm wary of introducing too much invented lore/language. For me, it is jarring. Makes me think "Hey, never saw anything in the Forgotten Realms like *this*! How did it get in here?" For better or worse, I prefer sticking to game cannon. That isn't to say that all romances need to have only 3 PC response options (yes, yes phrased ever so slighly differently, something horribly rude), no romantic involvement at all after sleeping together, no friendship track, or follow the standard "romance as therapy" format, but I'd just as soon not see anything like a new language thrown at me for my befuddlement.

It's a fine line, between expanding existing game parameters and going off on a tangent. To me, it means that the player should never blind-sided by mod material. He should be able to view the expansion as added detail or welcome clarification, not be made to feel like an idiot for not knowing FR lore well enough.

I do not claim to speak for all players. These are only my personal opinions.

[Chevalier]

There is lots of Elvish in BG1NPC.

Ieriyn will be Y'landrothiel in Elven tongue... Stars... There is a sacred hill in Shilmista - we call Daione Dun - the Hill of the Stars. It rises high in the middle of the Forest of Shadows, and its top is so close to the sky that one can almost touch the stars from atop it.

Quel undome, a'maelamin Deheriana. Good night, my beloved Deheriana.

Just 2 from Kivan

I like the way BG1NPC handles elven, and I think if done right others can have a saying or say something in other demihuman/ Forgotten Realm languages

[berelinde]

There wasn't a heck of a lot of dialogue in vanilla BG1 to stand out *against,* so it is not perceived as out of place. Without BG1 NPC, the vanilla game didn't have anyone speaking elvish, true, but when the mod is as comprehensive as BG1 NPC, its changes are more universal. Few people who write NPC mods for Tutu/BGT are going to do so without taking BG1 NPC into consideration.

However, BG2 has already been modded extensively. Why introduce unnecessary inconsistencies?

[Kulyok]

I think for me it's more about being "in character" and "out of character". Mazzy doesn't speak anything else. Only Common, even with her mother and sister. So if she starts speaking in another language, and even worse, a language not taken from a widely used FR source, I'd probably find it jarring.

[Tempest]

Valid points, all. The main thing I was going to get out of this was Mazzy's term of endearment for Darian (his pet names/terms of endearment for both Charname and Mazzy are elven words), but looks like I'll remove this idea from the list.

[Kaeloree]

I would imagine Mazzy calling Darian 'dear one', or something similar...