20 replies to this topic

[Azkyroth]

I'm wondering what the community position is on DLTCEP vs. IETME as area editing programs. Pros and cons of each, features that are preferred, etc?

[Cuv]

I'm wondering what the community position is on DLTCEP vs. IETME as area editing programs. Pros and cons of each, features that are preferred, etc?

I prefer IETME, but DLTCEP is most likely a better tool.

Pros and Cons of IETME:

Pros- User Friendly Interface. Does everything just fine for nearly the oldest area tool (anyone remember ICM?).
Cons- Has a nasty habit of crashing on you , but ONLY at the worst possible time. Save often. Has not been updated since 2003, so many of the unknowns then are not visible.

I am too old to learn a new tool But truly, there is nothing wrong with IETME.

Cuv

[Azkyroth]

If it lets me resize the editor window I'm already 90% sold.

Cons- Has a nasty habit of crashing on you , but ONLY at the worst possible time. Save often. Has not been updated since 2003, so many of the unknowns then are not visible.

Meh. Shares that problem with Alibre (which will be a truly wonderful 3D CAD tool...when it's done ), so I'm pretty much used to it.

Edited by Azkyroth, 22 July 2007 - 02:05 AM.

[Gabrielle]

I'm wondering what the community position is on DLTCEP vs. IETME as area editing programs. Pros and cons of each, features that are preferred, etc?

I prefer IETME, but DLTCEP is most likely a better tool.

Pros and Cons of IETME:

Pros- User Friendly Interface. Does everything just fine for nearly the oldest area tool (anyone remember ICM?).
Cons- Has a nasty habit of crashing on you , but ONLY at the worst possible time. Save often. Has not been updated since 2003, so many of the unknowns then are not visible.

I am too old to learn a new tool But truly, there is nothing wrong with IETME.

Cuv

I agree with Cuv.

I prefer using IETME myself.

[Meira]

All areas in Amber mod are created with IETME. If I can help it, I will never touch that tool again. That's not to say that the IETME wasn't appreciated and it did serve it's purpose back then. I haven't tried out DLTCEP's area editing features, but they look very promising. So, If I were you I'd definitely try out that first.

[Sir BillyBob]

As someone who has used both tools quite a bit now, I would say it is close to impossible to just use one. I actually work with NI as well.

IETME is as buggy as a 1.0 M$ product. Walls do not always work correctly. They are there in game, but don't hide the actor. Sometimes you have to rebuild the same wall three or four times to get it to work. DLTCEP on the other hand has the problem of shaking the screen every time you click on the next coordinate. That drives me crazy.

However, DLTCEP is the only one that can do a quick test to see if you f**ked up something which will crash your area. When working on multiple areas, I sometimes forget to add the entrance point on the next map, or worse, mistype the label. DLTCEP will find these bugs.

IETME is much better at creating doors. I can see both an open and closed door (toggling back and forth) to make sure I didn't shift the area graphics slightly (which I sometimes do). However, IETME seems to bugger up when adding the wall element to the door. I sometimes get a three pointed wall instead of the four I clicked on. DLTCEP fixes this for me.

IETME is great for creating containers. You can zoom in on your map (that is my biggest complaint with DLTCEP - I need this!). By doing this, I can round out my container highlights to better match the object underneath (nothing worst than a square barrel).

IETME allows you to see all of your actors and animations (okay it is a square but still) on the screen at once. DLTCEP can only show you the currently selected actor or animation. When you have 50 torches to add, it is very helpful to know which ones you have already placed on the map.

DLTCEP allows me to listen to the ambients that I am selecting to use. This is helpful when you forgot to write down which ones you want to use. It also allows you to play your animations.

One reason for using both - spawns. For some reason if I create a spawn point in just one tool, it won't work correctly. If I make it in one and then edit in the other, the spawn always works. Go figure. This is also why I use NI. Time slots seem to work best in this program than in the other two. If I want a torch to light only between certain hours, I find NI matches the times better than DLTCEP (IETME doesn't seem to do this at all).

IETME places a white line across the bottom of any area MOS file. I have no idea why this is but it does. DLTCEP makes a correct MOS file. However, make the file before adding doors and overlays, otherwise they are added to the bottom of the MOS file (why????).

DLTCEP doesn't let you edit the labels of the objects on your map. I have never gotten the tool to let me change "Actor 1" to "Orc", it just won't happen. This is when NI is helpful. I can make the label changes as needed. I can't always use IETME because once you have doors created, the tool has a tendancy to corrupt their wall objects thus causing your area to crash during play. So once the doors and overlays are in place, IETME is a no no.


What sucks in both programs? They both crash. They both corrupt the WED file (use backups and place them in other folders!). Neither one can do all the functions I need. Therefore, I use both. Oh, and neither of them can make an area that is 80x60 in size. I keep trying but it won't work. Your area will start to crash. The fustrating thing is that it doesn't crash immediately, you have to waste several days building walls, placing actors and doors and stuff onto the map before it crashing during game play. Very fustrating. Just remember to go up to 79x59 and you will do fine.

Last point, overlays. DLTCEP has a faster way to make large overlays, just click around the perimeter (if you can stand the damn screen jumping) and you are done. In IETME, you have to select each 64x64 pixel block and fill it in. If the block only has part of it covered, you have to paint in that area. For large areas, this can take hours (trust me). However, sometimes I find it is easier to make the overlay with DLTCEP then go back to IETME to touch up small areas that I couldn't zoom into to fix. Also, DLTCEP lets you look at the overlay tiles during selection, so you know you have the overlay you want. IETME only lets you fill in a field telling it what overlay to use. Therefore you had to already look at it in DLTCEP anyway.

[berelinde]

I've had the same experience. I use a variety of modding tools for a variety of different purposes. I haven't worked with areas yet, although I really should, and Cuv has been most generous about providing comprehensive instruction, but I've done a variety of other IE Modding tasks, and I find that I prefer to use whichever tool is most convenient for the task I wish to perform.

[Cuv]

As someone who has used both tools quite a bit now, I would say it is close to impossible to just use one. I actually work with NI as well.

IETME is as buggy as a 1.0 M$ product. Walls do not always work correctly. They are there in game, but don't hide the actor. Sometimes you have to rebuild the same wall three or four times to get it to work.

Yeah, I always have considerable trouble with IETME when it comes to walls... might have to check out DLTCEP for at least the wall portion of area creation, but that would mean learning it Wanna do some walls for me?

What sucks in both programs? They both crash. They both corrupt the WED file (use backups and place them in other folders!).

This I didnt know, both crash eh? ... I will just stick to IETME for making my raw areas, then fix with NI 'if' I manage to get a clean save. Don't think I could tolerate two programs potentially crashing on me.

Thanks for the info about DLTCEP Sir BillyBob

Cuv

[Solaufein]

I have used IETME since it first came out and will continue to keep using it since I am familiar with it. I don't make original areas but modify existing ones, so this tool suites my needs. I see no need to change.

Edited by Solaufein, 30 July 2007 - 06:12 PM.

[igi]

I believe DLTCEP has a zoom feature when editing areas, and that it can toggle the door graphics.

As for spawn points, I belive the general consensus is that they're hopelessly useless and broken in general, and it's better to handle such things by script.

[Kulyok]

I am/was working with DLTCEP, and I like the fact it's so user-friendly. Tutorials helped a bit, too - my first steps were like "aha, the tutorial says... this button... let's say 45 instead of 35... the script... save... let's test it - wow! It worked! The player got so totally killed by this lightning trap! Okay, now let's see what it says about search maps..."

[Yovaneth]

As someone who has used both tools quite a bit now, I would say it is close to impossible to just use one. I actually work with NI as well.

I can't stand IETME. I hate the constant crashes and screw-ups.

DLTCEP on the other hand has the problem of shaking the screen every time you click on the next coordinate. That drives me crazy.

I found this definately annoying untill I realised it's actually setting the last selected point to the centre of the screen. Same when you select a tile to modify. What is a ballsache is its insistance on guessing at the next tile to be selected.

IETME is much better at creating doors. I can see both an open and closed door (toggling back and forth) to make sure I didn't shift the area graphics slightly (which I sometimes do).

Select the Open / Closed button when in preview mode in DLTCEP - it toggles all doors open and closed. Also, you can use DLTCEP to export the door area you want to work on, so you don't get mismatched graphics.

IETME is great for creating containers. You can zoom in on your map (that is my biggest complaint with DLTCEP - I need this!). By doing this, I can round out my container highlights to better match the object underneath (nothing worst than a square barrel).

DLTCEP allows you to save the polygon outlines. Many of the same-type objects (e.g chests) in BG/BG2 are at the same angle, so it doesn't take long to build up a library of common polygons. That hands-down beats having to draw new polygons for every new container/door etc.

IETME allows you to see all of your actors and animations (okay it is a square but still) on the screen at once. DLTCEP can only show you the currently selected actor or animation. When you have 50 torches to add, it is very helpful to know which ones you have already placed on the map.

Agreed!!!

One reason for using both - spawns. For some reason if I create a spawn point in just one tool, it won't work correctly.

Yup. Spawns are completely shafted, as Igi says.

IETME places a white line across the bottom of any area MOS file. I have no idea why this is but it does. DLTCEP makes a correct MOS file. However, make the file before adding doors and overlays, otherwise they are added to the bottom of the MOS file (why????).

Interesting. I didn't know that, but I can make a very good guess why. DLTCEP generates the minimap from the tis file; if you've already included the tilesets for the doors (which get added to the bottom of the tis file), they get added to the MOS too.

DLTCEP doesn't let you edit the labels of the objects on your map. I have never gotten the tool to let me change "Actor 1" to "Orc", it just won't happen.

When you're adding actors, highlight the entire 'Actor X' textfield and start typing your required name. Don't prefix with the number - DLTCEP adds that automatically.

What sucks in both programs? They both crash. They both corrupt the WED file (use backups and place them in other folders!). Neither one can do all the functions I need. Therefore, I use both. Oh, and neither of them can make an area that is 80x60 in size.

At least I can predict what actions will make DLTCEP crash and avoid them like the Calimshite itch - that ain't possible in IETME. I also know exactly how to corrupt the wed file in DLTCEP, how to avoid it and if I can't avoid it, how to fix it quickly using NI. Again, not always possible in IETME. Oddly, I've never had a problem creating an 80x60 area in DLTCEP. Although I've created a lot of tutorials for DLTCEP, I'm not a DLTCEP evangelist and I'm pretty quick to point out its shortfalls.

-Y-

[Solaufein]

Who's used ICM? Better yet who has ICM? That is one old tool that I do not have and need for my collection.

Back on topic, I'm old skool and I will mostly stick with old skool tools like IETME, IEEP, etc. They work for me and that is all that matters in the long run. What you feel comfortable with.

[Cuv]

Who's used ICM? Better yet who has ICM? That is one old tool that I do not have and need for my collection.

I do What else you need? I kept everything from the old days.

And here you go -  ICM_v1.1en.zip   2.02MB   255 downloads
Infinity Campaign Maker- Quite obsolete, but good for collectors of antique modding tools

Cuv

[igi]

DLTCEP on the other hand has the problem of shaking the screen every time you click on the next coordinate. That drives me crazy.

I found this definately annoying untill I realised it's actually setting the last selected point to the centre of the screen. Same when you select a tile to modify. What is a ballsache is its insistance on guessing at the next tile to be selected.

You can switch this off in the options ('centre on vertex' or some such).

Infinity Campaign Maker- Quite obsolete, but good for collectors of antique modding tools

Awesome. I lost my copy of this long, long ago (and I never had a backup, as it's, well.. frankly not worth it

Any chance you have Gorions Area Editor?

[Solaufein]

Who's used ICM? Better yet who has ICM? That is one old tool that I do not have and need for my collection.

I do What else you need? I kept everything from the old days.

And here you go -  ICM_v1.1en.zip   2.02MB   255 downloads
Infinity Campaign Maker- Quite obsolete, but good for collectors of antique modding tools

Cuv

Excellent, thanks. Now I believe my collection is complete.

[Cuv]

Any chance you have Gorions Area Editor?

I don't think that I have that one... but will look.

[Solaufein]

You mean this old thing?

Attached Images

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[igi]

Yeah, that would be it.

[Azkyroth]

I draw polygons for a living, so that's not too objectionable. (I also deal with Alibre for a living, which also tends to crash fairly randomly). Still, reliable information on what will and will not cause a crash is always appreciated; Yovaneth, I take it you've probably posted that online somewhere? Link for meh?

And any word on the window resizing, etc?