16 replies to this topic

[Scipio]

Please let me draw on the greater wisdom, intelligence, charisma, constitution, strength and dexterity of the expert gamers here at SHS. Please tell me if I have been missing out on some great BG2 experiences.

This is going to be a longish post, so here are the main points up front:

1. Does anyone play the smaller races?
2. Is it really any fun to be evil?
3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?
4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?
5. Should I bother with spells I?ve never used?
6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?
7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?
8. What are the best AI settings?

I know these are pretty basic questions. I shouldn?t be asking them because I bought Baldur?s Gate as soon as it was released and SoA as soon as it came out. I?ve had BG2 and ToB for a year now. I?ve played BG1 and BG2 more times than I can remember.

Yet I have never tested all of the numerous options for playing either game. You can put this down to laziness and impatience. My age and crustiness are probably also factors. I have a tendency to go for the options that have won for me previously.


1. Does anyone play the smaller races?

Has anyone EVER played as a halfling or a gnome? To me they look too weak to be the PC. Why would you choose to be a ?little? character ? for the challenge? If so, wouldn?t it be better to set the difficulty level higher?

In BG2 there was the added problem that halfings and gnomes don?t score well in Bioware romances. That would change now, of course, because there is the Mazzy romance I?d like to try. But if I take Mazzy and a gnome or halfling PC, won?t that really weaken the party?

As an aside, maybe the Mazzy mod could be re-modded to allow a human or elf to romance her. She?s surely not THAT small. I could picture her with the delectable Mena Suvari?s baby face.


2. Is it really any fun to be evil?

I have made half-hearted efforts to be an evil character. I have never played all the way through as an evil PC with an all-evil party. It somehow doesn?t feel right. The ultimate objective is to defeat evil, not to be it.

I also don?t like the charisma and buying/selling penalties that come with a bad reputation ? although I happily risk this when I want Viconia in the party. Even after the initial 2-point drop it?s easy enough to get a higher reputation again.

I?ve never felt a great need to include Edwin. He is a twit and by the time I could recruit him I usually have enough combined magic skills in the party to see me through the rest of the game.

There was an initial problem in that there weren?t enough evil NPCs to make up an all-bad party. Now there are enough interesting evil NPC mods to have six bad people being unwelcome in the Realms. Has anyone done this?

As an aside, I have just discovered the fun of having Sarevok in the party for ToB.


3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?

Here are three big admissions:

* I have NEVER played as a monk. This class doesn?t feel right, somehow. There were no Oriental martial monks in Mediaeval Europe, which has so many parallels in Faerun. In addition a monk PC doesn?t get to enjoy all the interesting weapons and armour improvements which are available to a more conventional PC. Is the gameplay very much different when you?re a monk?

* For the same reasons I?ve never been a Kensai fighter. Anyway, I think you?d need someone special to be a better fighter than a Berserker. That beserk state renders you invulnerable to level drain, confusion and imprisonment? great advantages.

* I have NEVER had a bard in my party for very long. They seem to be too much the all-purpose class which is not as good as other classes for various tasks. A thief is better than a bard at thieving. A fighter is better at fighting. A wizard is better at wizarding. The high lore that a bard commands is neither here nor there to me. Why would anyone need a bard apart from the added dialogue?

In general I limit my choices to a few classes. Why bother with a paladin or a ranger when a fighter has more proficiency slots than either of them? Not even the plus-5 Holy Avenger sword seems to justify having a paladin. And fighters have more HP than paladins or rangers.

I also don?t bother with druids. Clerics can do just about anything a druid can do and they have much better summoning skills. Give me a skeleton warrior rather than a fire elemental any day. I usually don?t bother with shape-shifting as a druid except for the very short time I have Cernd in the party.

As for sorcerers, they can't dual into fighters (or vice versa).

In short, is it really worthwhile to be a Kensai, a monk, a sorcerer, a druid or a bard?


4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?

I can see why you may want to collect axes if you have Korgan in the party. Other than that, does anyone ever bother to gain proficiency in axes, spears, daggers, clubs, halberds or darts? Or in bastard swords, for that matter? You wait a heck of a long time to get a decent bastard sword.

Is it worth giving your fighter-type PC proficiency in katanas? Good Japanese swords are rare in the game, and is the Celestial Fury better than a plus-4 or plus-5 ?Western? sword?

I?ve started wondering if it?s necessary to use swords at all in BG2! They don?t work that well against skeletons, etc, and they?re largely useless against golems. The Crom Faeyr Hammer, Rune Hammer, Flail of the Ages, Mace of Disruption, Staff of Rhynn and Staff of the Ram provide enough good weaponry for all of your fighter types. If you?re struggling against Kangaxx, let your mages hit him with Minute Meteors while you Ring of the Ram him and you can take him down quite easily.


5. Should I bother with spells I?ve never used?

My mages learn all of the spells they can for the XP but never memorise more than a few. Nor do my clerics.

My mages memorise a couple of buffing spells like Resist Fear. Then they concentrate on the outright killing spells like Cloudkill, marble-sized Meteors, Horrible Wilting, etc; the good summoning spells like Skeleton Warrior, those float-alone plus-5 swords and Planetar; and the main breaching spells to bring down hostile mages? defenses. Is there anything to be gained by using Confusion, Slow and other handicapping spells, or Fireshield, resilient spheres, spell deflection and other defensive spells? When hostile mages use these defenses it?s easy to crash through them, so would they mean much to my mages? It seems they would just use up memory slots I could use for more effective spells. I do use Stoneskin, but that?s about the only densive spell I bother with.

My clerics likewise memorise buffing spells, healing spells and summoning spells to the exclusion of just about everything else.

As for those very high-level spells, you can memorise very few of them. My mages use Timestop and Planetar. My clerics us Diva and Storm of Vengeance. Should I even bother with other spells like Maze, Comet, etc? I haven?t needed them up to now, but should I be using them?


6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?

I much prefer single-player to multi-player games because of the interaction with NPCs. However, there are some annoying restrictions in single player mode if you use mostly or only the Bioware NPCs. I?d rather have a thief dualed to fighter than a thief-mage. A fighter dualed to cleric who has five slots for hamnmers or maces is much more effective than a pure cleric.

Could I achieve the same strengths in the party by dualing some of the Bioware characters? I have played some games with my own generated fighter-cleric, fighter-mage and thief-fighter plus three NPCs. But this is less satisfying from the Faerun social aspect!


7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?

Cloudkill is a terrific wand at every level of the game. The others seems pretty useless. Or am I not using them correctly?

The Wand of Fireballs is helpful very early in BG2. After a while it becomes less effective. Soon all it does is annoy all of the enemies in an area and make them attack your mage in a gang.

As for the wands of Fear, Sleep, Paralysis... is it only for me that they never seem to have any effect at all?


8. What are the best AI settings?

This is where I?ve been really lazy! I don?t like my characters to shoot off spells unless I tell them to do so. It annoys me when a fighter strolls away from a melee, puts away his plus-three sword with five proficiency slots and takes up his plus-1 longbow with one proficiency slot. I also don?t like them to stand around and get killed. So I give all of them the ?Standard Attack? AI. This feels like a bit of a cop-out.

What are the best AIs for: fighters who mostly melee; thieves or mages who mostly use missile weapons until I tell them to cast spells; clerics who should be using slings until I tell them to join a melee?

There is another constant annoyance. When ?Standard Attack? AI is on, my magic users won?t cast spells unless I switch off the AI. You can tell Imoen to cast Breach on Irenicus and she happily ignores you, continuing to waste arrows on his protective shielding until you take away her AI. When you do that some of the other characters mark time on the spot, getting killed, until you give them individual orders or reactivate the AI.

Is there a way to manage this more effectively?

ADVICE from you brilliant people will be most welcome, as it always is.

[Galsic]

Not so much advice as my own thoughts and preferences:

1. Stat-wise, there really isn't a huge difference between the races; no reason I can think of that playing a halfing/gnome would be any more difficult than the bigger races. As for me, though, I usually play human mainly cuz I like dual-classing .

2. You touched on one part already: reputation (though you can keep it on neutral and still keep evil peeps satisfied). Overall, though, in vanilla BG at least, it's a lot more rewarding to play good: more rewards and exp. from completing quests, better shop prices, etc. Whether you find that more fun or whether you simply find playing evil fun regardless of the rewards offered by the game is up to you.

3. Personally, I think playing a monk would be kind of fun. Never played one, though, cuz I've yet to be able to fit one in my rather strict party formula. One of these days...

And for the reason you've already mentioned, Berzerker > Kensai for me, any day.

Bards are kind of a happy median between a fighter and a wizard with the added bard song and lore bonus, but still, I think I'd rather have a fighter/mage, meself.

I've always liked inquisitors because of their innate True Sight and Dispel abilities. VERY useful spells those, and with the inquisitor, either PC or Keldorn, in my party, my other spellcasters can fill up their spell slots with other useful spells. That the inquisitor is somewhat weaker in combat is of little consequence to me, though that Carsomyr MORE than makes up for that as far as I'm concerned.

Rangers (with the possible exception of the Archer), on the other hand, lose too much to abilities that I, generally, don't find too useful in the BG games. I would use archers, except, again, they don't usually fit into my party formula, despite their high damage potential.

I kinda like druids, mainly cuz of their ability to screw over enemy spellcasters with their insect spells. Other than that, yeah, shapeshifting's kinda pointless for me in BG, but, overall, druids are close enough to clerics for me to consider as viable options.

As for sorcerers, well, depends on your play style. As strictly spellcasters, though, sorcerers get absolutely DEGENERATE. Sorcerer > any single class mage, by FAR. Needless to say, I've had fun with sorcerers .

4. Some weapons seem weak to me, namely darts, daggers, and clubs, so I never use 'em. If I have a druid in my party, I'll go ahead with spears and staves, though.

Another thing to consider is the Item Upgrade mod. Makes that Celestial Fury, among other weapons and items much more useful, if at considerable cost. It's worth taking a look at.

5. I LOVE the Chaos spell (5th lvl Confusion with added saving throw penalty). That and Hold Person. Both can easily make whole groups vulnerable to your other tactics while largely protecting your own peeps from retaliation, so I practically spam them.

As for all those defensive spells, well, you as the player are much smarter about ripping through enemy defenses than those computer A.I. driven enemies are at ripping through your defenses, so all those defensive spells will generally be more effective on your own peeps.

Higher lvl spells like Comet and Dragon's Breath are fun (they do a crapload of damage and, like Horrid Wilting, only affect enemies), but if you're really a fan of Time Stop, well, Horrid Wilting serves just fine. I never used Time Stop all that often, so I always had room for a Comet or two.

My clerics have always been my primary source of the Hold Person spell. Other than that, I generally use 'em in the same capacity as you. If we're talking a more melee oriented cleric, though, let's just say a Crom Faeyr-wielding Anomen using Blade Barrier's quite the blast!

6. Dunno what to tell you 'bout this. Thanks to mods, I've always been happy with single player mode.

7. The only wand/rod I've ever found useful is the rod of resurrection, especially earlier in the game. I've always found actual spells (like Chaos and Hold Person) to be more effective, otherwise, as well as just letting non-spellcasters do what they do best.

8. I never mess with the AI. All my peeps does what I tells 'em to do when I wants 'em to do it.

Edited by Galsic, 30 March 2008 - 01:17 AM.

[Scipio]

Not so much advice as my own thoughts and preferences:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I believe I shall now try the spells you've mentioned, and maybe give a sorcerer a run.

At one of the other forums I've just seen a kit for a druid-sorcerer. That could be a mean mix.

[Galsic]

Not so much advice as my own thoughts and preferences:

Thanks for the detailed reply. I believe I shall now try the spells you've mentioned, and maybe give a sorcerer a run.

No prob . Note that sorcerers start out kind of slow, but at higher levels, well, with Tashia, I was spamming 4-5 Wiltings AND 4-5 Fingers of Death (could probably fit more, for that matter) during Time Stops thanks to Improved Alacrity (another high lvl spell you might like) and the casting time bonuses from the Robe of Vecna and the Sorceror class.

At one of the other forums I've just seen a kit for a druid-sorcerer. That could be a mean mix.

A more recent kit mod that is apparently based on the druid-sorcerer is the Geomantic Sorcerer, which, from what I gather, is superior both in terms of content and coding. I've always wanted to try it out, meself.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Well, I am not an expert, so take this with a grain of salt, a piece of pepper and a huge stack of marmelade.

1. Does anyone play the smaller races?

The little people have good saving throwns, and dwarves can regenerate.

2. Is it really any fun to be evil?

Besides doing the good jobs badly, well, no. Unless you load up the mod for the wicked

3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?

Well, monk is a good damage dealer at the high levels... or so I) have heard. Fighter has the same dice as the paladin and rander, so he doesn't have bigger hitpoints. Make a Kensai-thief and you'll have a one hit killer, and his name is Sarevok.

4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?

Indeed with Crom Faeyr Hammer, and Some axe or other weapon and the kensai is good with 25 on his str.

6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?

I would, if I would play the game.

7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?

Well, the wands can be though, as an aid pieces of equipment, and if you play the game for the first time, and you don't knw what's comming, you can load up a punch of spells without the need of memoricing them, for a Sorcerer, thief or the like.

[Scipio]

Make a Kensai-thief and you'll have a one hit killer, and his name is Sarevok

It's a pity Sarevok isn't a joinable NPC in SoA!

[Galsic]

2. Is it really any fun to be evil?

Besides doing the good jobs badly, well, no. Unless you load up the mod for the wicked

Don't confuse the poor chap . MftW isn't released, yet. Really, I can't think of any completed mods that adds to evil roleplay, so gonna have to wait for MftW. Bummer, I says...

Fighter has the same dice as the paladin and ran[g]er, so he doesn't have bigger hitpoints.

Fighters do get an addition hp bonus from constitution 17+, y'know.

[Jarno Mikkola]

Fighters do get an addition hp bonus from constitution 17+, y'know.

??? So does a Ranger and a Paladin!! Although this is from IwD, it shouln't matter as the rules are the same. As they are all warriors sub class, the only real reason why they might not have as much hit points is cause their xp limit is different than fighters and their stat reguarements are larges so the 18 con is't so easy to get.

Attached Files

•  iwind000.bmp   1.37MB   386 downloads

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 30 March 2008 - 03:23 AM.

[Kulyok]

Really, I can't think of any completed mods that adds to evil roleplay, so gonna have to wait for MftW. Bummer, I says...

Well, there's Assassinations...



(In other news, I'm fairly conservative: I always use the same spells, same weapons, no wands, no AI, same classes and races, and no multiplayer-created characters - I prefer modding Bioware characters with Level 1 NPCs. I do like trying out new mods, quests and companions, though. )

[Tassadar88]

Don't confuse the poor chap . MftW isn't released, yet. Really, I can't think of any completed mods that adds to evil roleplay, so gonna have to wait for MftW. Bummer, I says...

Well, he can still try out the parts that *ARE* released- Kido, Ariena and if she is out for testing, then Kirinhale too - they each have quests so evil I felt wicked trying them out

[Scipio]

I prefer modding Bioware characters with Level 1 NPCs.

Gosh, I haven't used this mod. I've just looked at it and immediately downloaded it. It could be the answer to so many of my frustrations! Let's see, Minsc as a berserker, Imoen as a thief-fighter, Jaheira still as a fighter-druid but proficient in hammers, Aerie as a pure mage who levels up more quickly, Viconia as a fighter-cleric for those extra proficiencies... and that'll let me try to be a monk or a sorcerer for the first time, maybe. Hoo boy, here we go! Many thanks for the tip.

[Azazello]

I prefer modding Bioware characters with Level 1 NPCs.

Gosh, I haven't used this mod. I've just looked at it and immediately downloaded it. It could be the answer to so many of my frustrations! Let's see, Minsc as a berserker, Imoen as a thief-fighter, Jaheira still as a fighter-druid but proficient in hammers, Aerie as a pure mage who levels up more quickly, Viconia as a fighter-cleric for those extra proficiencies... and that'll let me try to be a monk or a sorcerer for the first time, maybe. Hoo boy, here we go! Many thanks for the tip.

The official (not beta) version will, supposedly, be released this week. I say hold off downloading 'til then.

[berelinde]

1. Does anyone play the smaller races?

If somebody wrote a romance for a gnome or halfling, I'd play it.

2. Is it really any fun to be evil?

Recently, I did my first ever full runthrough of BG1 Tutu, playtesting Shar-Teel's romance and interjections. I can't say I enjoyed it. Sure, it was all right at first, but it got old fast, and keeping my evil companions happy was a colossal pain in the backside. I think I must have spent a young fortune on bardic reputation adjustment (they lower your rep, not raise it). So it was a bit of a headache, keeping an eye on reputation and always having to do the wrong thing. And it didn't feel heroic at all, which was a let-down.


3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?

I share your preferences about monks and bards. Although after trying the Luxleys for a while, my opinion of NPCs as both has changed. That movement rate bonus for monks is sweet. But I don't have much use for wizard slayers, or for any of the druid or ranger kits besides archer, or for any of the mage kits, really, although I like sorcerers. I made a horrible tweak mod that allows the player to decide what level of mastery is possible for each kit/class, so I've been having a lot more fun playing paladins and rangers, now that they aren't bound to two wimpy pips.

4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?

Get Underrepresented Items. It will change your life.

5. Should I bother with spells I?ve never used?

Definitely! I used to give my clerics all defensive spells, but there really aren't a lot of good 2nd level spells. And then I found Silence, 15' radius. Have the cleric cast it on enemy spellcasters, who rarely use vocalize, and suddenly, they're useless. It makes combat against mages a lot easier.

6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?

Yes, all the time. I like the romances, you see, and I like to play as many of them as I can. Amber has a Player2 romance, so I'll romance somebody else with Player1 and Amber with Player2.

7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?

I like wand of the heavens, myself.

8. What are the best AI settings?

I use standard attack for fighters and paladins, and those rangers who aren't archers. Archers get ranged attack, of course. I use adventurer thief for thieves because I want to know when I'm going to get zapped. Sometimes, I'll assign scripts to mages, but most often, I just have 'em cast something with Melf's in it. I like my clerics pretty buff, and able to hold their own in melee, so I rarely keep them back from combat. That probably explains why I have no use for Aerie, and little enough use for Viconia.

[Galsic]

@Jarno: Yep, guess you're right about the HP thing. Silly me...though it's been a while since my pc was a pally, but I coulda sworn...

[Klorox]

Please let me draw on the greater wisdom, intelligence, charisma, constitution, strength and dexterity of the expert gamers here at SHS. Please tell me if I have been missing out on some great BG2 experiences.

This is going to be a longish post, so here are the main points up front:

1. Does anyone play the smaller races?
2. Is it really any fun to be evil?
3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?
4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?
5. Should I bother with spells I?ve never used?
6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?
7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?
8. What are the best AI settings?

1)I do, most of the time. They're actually very powerful races. They all get bonuses to Saves vs. Spell, which is the most important save IMHO. Dwarves and Halflings also get a bonus vs. Poison. Dwarves are actually my favorite from pnp days, and can REGENERATE if you play BGI first!
2)I don't think so. Evil sucks. I like to be the hero.
3)The variety of classes adds to the game. I get a very different feel when I play different classes. I still haven't played them all.
4)Yeah, why not? It's more fun mixing stuff up!
5)See #4. I would stick to spells you know and like with a Sorcerer though.
6)Yes. Sometimes I really want a F/T and another class as my main character. 3 is the most I'd go with b/c I like banter.
7)Wands of Monster summoning rock. Fire wands are nice for Illusionists early in the game
8)I dunno. Never used the AI.

Edited by Klorox, 02 April 2008 - 03:51 AM.

[Choo Choo]

1. Does anyone play the smaller races?

I know a lot of people do, even if I personally tend to stick to elf.

2. Is it really any fun to be evil?

Well, in vanilla BG you have a LOT of advantages if you're good, so until a mod rectifies that (Deathsangel, listen up! ), most people play good.

3. Are all the classes worth the trouble?

I usually play as a kensai (they're killing machines in higher levels, and as long as you keep them away from archers until then, they can usually kill most things before the before-mentioned thing manages to kill THEM.) If not, I play as sorcerer (I'd rather have fewer spells and be able to cast them more often, yes) or an archer (sad they're so weak. But they're good for killing mages.)

4. Should I try weapons I?ve never used?

Absolutely. Just don't try giving Minsc a dagger.

5. Should I bother with spells I?ve never used?

...that depends on what spells you've used before. But it won't hurt, will it?

6. Does anyone play with a mixed multiplayer-NPC party?

Rarely.

7. Is Cloudkill the only useful wand?

I actually prefer the Wand of Heavens. IE Flamestrike.

8. What are the best AI settings?

Spellcaster Defend for your melee fighters, relatively-strong clerics and thieves (the thief AI's are worthless), Spellcaster Attack for a ranged fighter type. Passive for mages so that you can choose yourself - I hate the mage AI's, they always begin with casting the most worthless spells. And at the wrong targets!