82 replies to this topic

[InTourette]

FFG104: "Through observation, sensation and experience, the truth of the multiverse shall be revealed." -> Unused
repeat select!!

ANA604A: "So... how long will you be travelling with us, Succubus?" -> BANNAH 16
or "So, uh, when are ya headin' back to yer knockin' shop, Succubus?"
FFG140: "Actually, I was planning to stay for a while if that does not offend, Annah." -> Unused
I don't know what the original banter is like, but this would work too

DEN028A: "My Love, at last you have returned." -> Unused
after a period of time, if you visit her again

ANA107A: "Oh, adventure... glory... aye, this is the life." -> Unused
repeat select!

FFG193: "I think you hide from yourself by dying. Do you hate life that much?" -> Unused
after TNO dies

[Qwinn]

Some good thoughts there, Intourette.

FFG104: "Through observation, sensation and experience, the truth of the multiverse shall be revealed." -> Unused
repeat select!!

ANA107A: "Oh, adventure... glory... aye, this is the life." -> Unused
repeat select!

I agree, these would make really good candidates for Repeat Select. Unfortunately, both Annah and Grace are full up, there's only 4 slots for those sounds available and both use them all. They're all -good- too, I wouldn't want to replace any of 'em. So we'd have to get scient to add a 5th line for repeat select. A lot of that will depend on how they're set up. If the engine requires that all the offsets in a CRE given to a certain purpose be contiguous (i.e. next to each other in the CRE file), then this may not be possible as it would require remapping the entire huge sound section of the CRE file, something which would be ridiculously painful and bug-prone to do when working with assembler code.

If they -don't- have to be set up a particular way, then yeah, I'd be inclined to put 'em in as a 5th repeat select.

But.. if we can't do that, then I'm thinking maybe adding them as one-shot lines upon entering certain areas. How about playing Grace's line upon first bringing her into the Festhall? Not sure where Annah's line would be good for a one shot delivery. Someplace boring (she says it pretty sarcastically). Dustman bar, maybe? Morte already has a similarish line entering there.

ANA604A: "So... how long will you be travelling with us, Succubus?" -> BANNAH 16
or "So, uh, when are ya headin' back to yer knockin' shop, Succubus?"
FFG140: "Actually, I was planning to stay for a while if that does not offend, Annah." -> Unused
I don't know what the original banter is like, but this would work too

I'm okay with the existing responses to those questions.

DEN028A: "My Love, at last you have returned." -> Unused
after a period of time, if you visit her again

It's actually a bit redundant with what you get when you come back to her in the vanilla game: DEN003A: "My Love... you have returned to me! Can it be your memories have returned?" I'll note that in the sound analysis.

FFG193: "I think you hide from yourself by dying. Do you hate life that much?" -> Unused
after TNO dies

Hmmm, interesting thought. It would take an engine change though. Hmm. Actually, if it happened after a particularly brutal death where you were just overwhelmed, it would come across as kinda bitchy. Hmmm. Maybe she'd say it after one of the deaths that you incur voluntarily, like the couple of times in the Festhall, or Awaiting Death? I'd consider doing it after your Death counter reaches a certain number, but that would necessarily include her reacting to deaths she wasn't there to witness, which is kinda lame. Lemme think about this one.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 27 May 2009 - 07:09 AM.

[Qwinn]

Not at all. Scient may well still be able to trigger the reputation lines for Annah, Dak'kon, Grace and Morte based on their morale. But Ignus, Nordom and Vhailor's morale never changes anyway, so we might as well use 'em elsewhere it's appropriate.

Qwinn

[InTourette]

Some good thoughts there, Intourette.

FFG104: "Through observation, sensation and experience, the truth of the multiverse shall be revealed." -> Unused
repeat select!!

ANA107A: "Oh, adventure... glory... aye, this is the life." -> Unused
repeat select!

But.. if we can't do that, then I'm thinking maybe adding them as one-shot lines upon entering certain areas. How about playing Grace's line upon first bringing her into the Festhall? Not sure where Annah's line would be good for a one shot delivery. Someplace boring (she says it pretty sarcastically). Dustman bar, maybe? Morte already has a similarish line entering there.

If it's not possible to put it as a repeat select, then your proposal for annah's lines is fine. But for Grace it would be silly, if she's saying something like this, when you enter the festhall. If she would say something like "the sensates believe "Through observation, sensation and experience, the truth of the multiverse shall be revealed."" then ok but as it stands it's a personal opinion (although she is a sensate) and so I would put it as a repeat select or maybe in a banter (I will look for one).

FFG193: "I think you hide from yourself by dying. Do you hate life that much?" -> Unused
after TNO dies

Hmmm, interesting thought. It would take an engine change though. Hmm. Actually, if it happened after a particularly brutal death where you were just overwhelmed, it would come across as kinda bitchy. Hmmm. Maybe she'd say it after one of the deaths that you incur voluntarily, like the couple of times in the Festhall, or Awaiting Death? I'd consider doing it after your Death counter reaches a certain number, but that would necessarily include her reacting to deaths she wasn't there to witness, which is kinda lame. Lemme think about this one.

Qwinn

Does it require an engine change? Because Morte is saying sometimes something as well, when TNO dies. But if yes, then the idea after a death that happened voluntarily is fine, too.

[taplonaplo]

Maybe switch out "your actions cry out for justice" and "defend yourself"? Would seem more fitting to me ("actions cry out for justice" going to the chaotic TNO).

[Qwinn]

But for Grace it would be silly, if she's saying something like this, when you enter the festhall. If she would say something like "the sensates believe "Through observation, sensation and experience, the truth of the multiverse shall be revealed."" then ok but as it stands it's a personal opinion (although she is a sensate)

If you can find a way to work it into a banter that doesn't sound strained, I'm -all- for it. Please. I tried and failed on that one.

And if creating a 5th Repeat Select line isn't horribly painful for scient, then I'm quite okay with that.

But I don't see the Festhall idea as silly. I like it better than the Annah option, actually. I mean, yes, she is very much a Sensate. And you and she just walked into the Sensate faction headquarters. I do think the "The sensates believe" that you're insisting would make it make sense isn't really all that necessary. It's her belief too. She's perfectly entitled to state it as a matter of fact. If you went into a Catholic church with a Catholic friend, and as you did so the friend whispered "Jesus died for us to redeem our sins", would you say "Now that's just silly... my friend couldn't say that without inserting "Catholics believe that..." beforehand? Even in that setting? If so, well, the friend isn't obligated to feel the same way, and I don't think it's authentic to force Grace to do so.

Does it require an engine change? Because Morte is saying sometimes something as well, when TNO dies. But if yes, then the idea after a death that happened voluntarily is fine, too.

Actually... it occurs to me... it requires an engine change if you want her to say it when you wake up from death (because that's the way all the other wake-up lines by Morte and others were implemented). It can be done via DEATH.2DA, though, if you want her to say it as he dies, before the fade to black and trip to the Mortuary. So there's that option. But it still strikes me as uncharacteristically bitchy for her to say that about what very possibly could've been a brutal death that you just tried like HELL to survive through. I think it's only really appropriate after you just voluntarily died, or have died a -lot-.

Maybe switch out "your actions cry out for justice" and "defend yourself"? Would seem more fitting to me ("actions cry out for justice" going to the chaotic TNO).

Really? What's your reasoning? I put 'em the way I did deliberately... I figured "evil" was more likely to have committed unjust -actions-, where chaotic was more likely to have committed injustice via words (oathbreaking, etc.). I mean, yeah, oathbreaking is an "action" too, sorta, but I figured actions more directly denotes evil actions like killing or abandoning or selling into slavery, stuff like that. But if you're looking at it a different way, please explain.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 28 May 2009 - 11:14 AM.

[Philiposophy]

I just downloaded Near Infinity and used that to listen to some of the files. It'd be great if you could get some of them integrated into the game!

I have to say, I especially like The Transcendent One's line about The Nameless One dying in barfights. I think it's terrific.

[Philiposophy]

TRA080B: "Then you shall die again!" -> Unused

Also, I'm pretty sure this isn't unused. When TTO makes his grand appearance on the roof of the Fortress in that cutscene, he says "So you have come. Then you shall die again!"

However in the actual dialogue afterwards, he says "So you have come. You are unwelcome here, broken one."

[taplonaplo]

Maybe switch out "your actions cry out for justice" and "defend yourself"? Would seem more fitting to me ("actions cry out for justice" going to the chaotic TNO).

Really? What's your reasoning? I put 'em the way I did deliberately... I figured "evil" was more likely to have committed unjust -actions-, where chaotic was more likely to have committed injustice via words (oathbreaking, etc.). I mean, yeah, oathbreaking is an "action" too, sorta, but I figured actions more directly denotes evil actions like killing or abandoning or selling into slavery, stuff like that. But if you're looking at it a different way, please explain.

Qwinn

If i understand right in your version the LE/NE would get the "actions cry out for justice" line, and CN/CE the "defend yourselves". I agree that many of the chaotic options are not exactly evil (but helluva fun) and i wish there were more instances where the only good option is chaotic , it feels strange that the more "moderate" (is it?; the other one sounds "angrier" for me) line goes with the more opposite alignments of vhailor, and if anybody's it's the CE's actions are those that cry out for justice, in the perspective of us both. But all in all it comes down to me that vhailor percieves justice on the scale of lawfullnes rather than good/evil(his dialogs support both, so i guess it's just me who see it this way), "MERCY is WEAKNESS", and the "LAW is JUSTICE/JUSTICE is LAW" and whatnot kinda makes me feel that good actions are frowned upon by him as well, altho i can see how the wouldnt "cry out" for justice.
In short i would say that i put the emphasis on "cry out" while you on "actions"
Not that I every played TNO as a non evil char so it won't have effects on my game, and i see what you base your view on, so i guess i'm happy with whatever outcome.
PS: arguing in English is not working for me :/

Edited by taplonaplo, 28 May 2009 - 04:24 PM.

[Qwinn]

TRA080B: "Then you shall die again!" -> Unused

Also, I'm pretty sure this isn't unused. When TTO makes his grand appearance on the roof of the Fortress in that cutscene, he says "So you have come. Then you shall die again!"

However in the actual dialogue afterwards, he says "So you have come. You are unwelcome here, broken one."

You're right, you have heard that line, but the .WAV file is actually unused. Where you heard it was in a movie file. Check out T1ENTER.MVE. I should probably indicate in the sound analysis where certain sounds were moved to movies instead. Though, actually, that may be the only instance of that. Well, that, and the "Impossible!" lines.

Also, I'm surprised you could hear these sound files in NI. I always get "conversion error"s when I try. I have to listen to 'em in DLTCEP. (I use NI for pretty much everything else)

I have to say, I especially like The Transcendent One's line about The Nameless One dying in barfights. I think it's terrific.

Oh, me too! I probably wouldn't have even bothered adding any of those other combat taunts if it weren't for that one, hehehe.

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 28 May 2009 - 04:49 PM.

[Qwinn]

Maybe switch out "your actions cry out for justice" and "defend yourself"? Would seem more fitting to me ("actions cry out for justice" going to the chaotic TNO).

Really? What's your reasoning? I put 'em the way I did deliberately... I figured "evil" was more likely to have committed unjust -actions-, where chaotic was more likely to have committed injustice via words (oathbreaking, etc.). I mean, yeah, oathbreaking is an "action" too, sorta, but I figured actions more directly denotes evil actions like killing or abandoning or selling into slavery, stuff like that. But if you're looking at it a different way, please explain.

Qwinn

If i understand right in your version the LE/NE would get the "actions cry out for justice" line, and CN/CE the "defend yourselves". I agree that many of the chaotic options are not exactly evil (but helluva fun) and i wish there were more instances where the only good option is chaotic , it feels strange that the more "moderate" (is it?; the other one sounds "angrier" for me) line goes with the more opposite alignments of vhailor, and if anybody's it's the CE's actions are those that cry out for justice, in the perspective of us both. But all in all it comes down to me that vhailor percieves justice on the scale of lawfullnes rather than good/evil(his dialogs support both, so i guess it's just me who see it this way), "MERCY is WEAKNESS", and the "LAW is JUSTICE/JUSTICE is LAW" and whatnot kinda makes me feel that good actions are frowned upon by him as well, altho i can see how the wouldnt "cry out" for justice.
In short i would say that i put the emphasis on "cry out" while you on "actions"
Not that I every played TNO as a non evil char so it won't have effects on my game, and i see what you base your view on, so i guess i'm happy with whatever outcome.
PS: arguing in English is not working for me :/

Heh, your english is better than a lot of native speakers I know, don't feel bad about that -at all-. I honestly didn't know english wasn't your native language until you said it. What's your native language, if I may ask?

And yeah, you're right... it's actually kinda vague on what's more important to Vhailor, the Chaos/Law axis or the Good/Evil axis. His alignment, his strength boost and a lot of his dialogue implies Chaos/Law is more important, but whether you fight him or Ignus in the Fortress (which is a pretty big deal) is, kinda surprisingly, based on Good/Evil. I'd be more annoyed with that if the chaos hits in game very often don't actually violate any -laws-, where evil hits often do. That's why I can see him not -liking- you for oathbreaking/being chaotic - and thus "you are a LIAR!", etc., while feeling "your actions cry out for JUSTICE" when you've been evil, probably by killing people and whatnot.

Then again, you can earn a lot of evil hits just for expecting to be paid for working for people, which annoys my satanic capitalist heart to no end, mind you. Frankly, I'd think that should annoy "workers of the world unite" socialists too. Whoever decided on alignment hits in this game had some pretty funky ideas. Don't get me started on the journal description for Merchants.

Qwinn

[InTourette]

Ok right I'm fine with your arguments... and I didn't find a banter for it

IGN001: "I live." -> Unused
if it's possible, then after his resurection. I know the others don't have such, but why not for him?

MRT459A: "Even fifty swigs of brandy wouldn't make you look good." -> Unused
This fits for the first conversation between morte and annah in the hive, if you choose the nasty answer. I think annah is saying something, too.

MRT538: "Banshee." -> Unused
or MRT539: "... little witch..." -> Unused
FFG334: "Pardon me?" -> DGRACE 377
or FFG310AA: "What was that?" -> BGRACE 7
MRT202: "*whistle*" -> Unused
would be a funny banter.. although the sentences from ffg are already used.

# NAM200A: "Nothing on him." -> Unused
# NAM200D: "Nothing on it." -> Pick Pocket failed, target has no items (STRREF 37074)
these could alternate

[taplonaplo]

It's not that, but it takes ages to write something coherent My native language is Hungarian BTW.
The scenario of a CE still remains fishy to me tho, as i suppose if anyone then it should be him whose "actions cry out for justice". A LE/CN and NE/CE grouping would still make more sense i think.

[Qwinn]

GN001: "I live." -> Unused
if it's possible, then after his resurection. I know the others don't have such, but why not for him?

No, for 2 reasons. One, as mentioned before, the sound is actually really lame. Two, it would require a new function in the engine. I'm willing to ask scient to work with (and use up precious room in) the game engine if it'll get us eight different PC sounds restored in one shot, but not for a single meh sound.

# NAM200A: "Nothing on him." -> Unused
# NAM200D: "Nothing on it." -> Pick Pocket failed, target has no items (STRREF 37074)
these could alternate

Ditto. Besides, what if you're pickpocketing a woman?

MRT538: "Banshee." -> Unused
or MRT539: "... little witch..." -> Unused
FFG334: "Pardon me?" -> DGRACE 377
or FFG310AA: "What was that?" -> BGRACE 7
MRT202: "*whistle*" -> Unused
would be a funny banter.. although the sentences from ffg are already used.

Morte would never say this. He adores Grace. 'Banshee' is his pet name for Annah.

Besides, the whistle in question is more like "C'mere, boy!" to a dog than a "I wasn't doin' nothin'" whistle. I sorta suspect it was planned to be used when 'casting' Mob of Skulls, but they ditched it. Morte does have a whistle sound of the sort you expected this one to be, but it is already used.

MRT459A: "Even fifty swigs of brandy wouldn't make you look good." -> Unused
This fits for the first conversation between morte and annah in the hive, if you choose the nasty answer. I think annah is saying something, too.

I won't make changes to existing dialogues to get any of these in. I'm okay with this sound being used to replace one of his most unintelligible taunts. Asking again: Can anyone else make out what he's saying in his taunt MRT320?

The scenario of a CE still remains fishy to me tho, as i suppose if anyone then it should be him whose "actions cry out for justice". A LE/CN and NE/CE grouping would still make more sense i think.

I understand what you're saying now. And ugh, you're right, the way it's set up right now, you'd ONLY get the "Liar!" and other chaotic set I was going to implement if you're chaotic evil. And you're right, that doesn't work... your crimes are probably a lot more serious than simple lying with that alignment. Gaaaaah. Okay, taking suggestions again on how to restore that lying sound, cause that idea isn't going to work (unless we make Vhailor replace Ignus as the fight for CN and CG TNO's, and as I said I won't do that this version, and probably not without something like MCA's approval).

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 29 May 2009 - 08:53 AM.

[taplonaplo]

I know it won't happen, but it'd be pretty damn funny if you tried to raise Vhailor against TTO with CN alignment you'd get the "You have broken your word! You are a liar! A traitor to truth! An enemy to all honest men!" line and he'd turn against you.

[Philiposophy]

# TRA042: "After I have torn you apart, I shall feed you to the shadows of those you've murdered." -> Unused
# TRA043: "After I have torn you apart, I shall feed you to the shades of those that have died in your place." -> Unused
# TRA044: "After I have torn you apart, I shall feed you to the shades." -> 1204TRNN.BCS

Just having a look through again, here's something that stuck out. I get the impression that it was a choice between these three lines for one slot as they're all so similar. Now they're all nice lines and the third one has been restored according to the colour coding. However I think that the second one is more fitting, since it embodies TTO more to me. I can imagine him saying all of them but that one seems more fitting as he has a thing for condemning TNO for his actions and sending him on guilt trips ("they wasted it for your sake") because of his utter contempt for TNO. I just think that that would be a more fitting line than the last one.

[Qwinn]

Well, that wasn't your typical restoration. That was "restored" by the same fix that restored all the floating text lines in game that weren't showing up... basically, if an NPC script was supposed to randomly choose from a list of more than 5 possibilities, only the first 5 were showing up. But what those options were beyond the first five was already coded, I didn't change it.

My point is that while I actually really agree with you and think that line is markedly better, I also can't really rationalize removing the one that the Black Isle folks chose. I could -add- the other one in the RS&B component, though, so that both the 2nd and 3rd have a chance to play, and I plan to.

Qwinn

[Philiposophy]

Ah, fair enough.

[Qwinn]

Scient:

Just realized something pretty major. That whole ton of sounds listed in the comprehensive thread as "After TNO Resurrection. Engine."? The ones we found explicitly referred to by their filename in the engine?

None of them actually ever play. At least, I can't get them to. Can anyone else cite having actually heard any of these in game?

# NOR223 : "Leader reactivated, Nordom awaiting instructions" -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# NOR224 : "Leader reanimated, Nordom awaiting instructions" -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# NOR225 : "Leader resurrected, Nordom awaiting instructions" -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.

# ANA506D: "Creepy rising from the dead you are." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA507B: "Didnae really think you were deathless, cursed you are." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA508D: "Just seein' ya crawl back to life like that, gives me the shivers." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA509B: "Are you alright?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA509F: "You're alright now, aren't ye?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA510E: "Oh... thought we'd lost ye." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA510F: "Oh... I thought we'd lost ye." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA511G: "Phew... thought I'd lost ye that time." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# ANA512C: "Hmmm, thought I'd lost yet that time. Not that I care, mind you." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.

# FFG295: "Are you all right?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# FFG296: "How do you feel?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# FFG297: "I'm relieved. You weren't breathing." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# FFG298: "At last. Are you all right?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.

# DAK162: "You have awakened." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# DAK163: "Are you well?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# DAK164: "Shall we proceed?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.

# VHA218: "At last. You have awakened." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# VHA219: "If you are well, let us continue." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# VHA220: "You have awakened." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# VHA221: "You live again." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.

# IGN218: "Again, you arise." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.
# IGN219: "Again, you live." -> After TNO Resurrection. Engine.

# NAM151B: "Aaagh. Worse than last time." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# NAM152B: "Feels like I've been through a shredder." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# NAM153: "Urf. Ugh. Feels like I've been strained through someone's bowels." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# NAM154: "Oooh. Feel all stiff." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.

# MRT397A: "Whoa, thought we lost you for good this time, chief." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT398B: "Looks like beauty sleep hasn't helped you any." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT400A: "Welcome back, chief." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT401D: "You know, I was just sitting here wondering whether you were going to get up, and then you have to go spoil my fun." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT402C: "Oh finally, now I can stop watching over you and go relieve myself." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT403A: "You know chief, you snore. Really loud." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT404C: "I'm sick of dragging your corpse back here with my teeth." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT405A: "I'm really sick of you dying on us. Cut it out, will ya?" -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT406A: "I hope you have all your memories this time." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.
# MRT407A: "I hope you haven't forgotten yourself, I don't want to explain our boring adventures all over again." -> After TNO resurrection. Engine.



I think the only ones of these I've ever actually heard have been the TNO ones, and I think only when TNO is totally alone. (Example, in his tomb)

Qwinn

Edited by Qwinn, 31 May 2009 - 10:03 PM.