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The Tactics Thread


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#21 Discordia

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Posted 11 November 2009 - 03:42 PM

what i like best is set up an earthquake with wynne, inferno or blizzard (with tempest for more combo if morrigan is around) with my PC and position it all near a door so the enemies have to pass through there. set up a glyph of repulsion on the door (so anyone reaching it will be blasted back into the aoe), retreat. if someone makes it through cast a glyph of paralysis on the other glyph which causes a spell combo with similar effect to mass paralysis (which unfortunately has friendly fire)
shoot away at your enemies.


blood magic from the 3rd talent on is very good for crowdcontrol (got it very late). its a damaging mass paralysis spell with the only drawback that you have to switch modes.

i have been playing on nightmare so far, havent finished quite yet, but i m on my way to defeat the arch demon (i hope thats not too much of a spoiler)

Edited by Discordia, 11 November 2009 - 03:42 PM.


#22 -WeeRLegion_2lazy2log-

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:24 AM

I'm so happy. I'm on my second run through now, and it's SO much easier than the first, I wasn't fulyl utilizing all the zingy spells back then. Thanks guys, you've brought up some very interesting ideas! ^^


As for me, I'm liking the sleep spell, it's fast to cast, so I'm thinking it'll be a great 'primer spell' for some mass damage AoE spells I plan to get later. teehee. @_@

#23 Waywocket

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 01:37 PM

Sleep + Nightmare == Oh yes!

#24 berelinde

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 02:22 PM

I'm running a warrior, and I've got to say that I'm doing things I never bothered with during NWN2, like shield bash. Who knew?

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#25 Discordia

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 04:01 PM

i just found out you can make your skill quick slot bigger...way bigger. just hold onto the end of it and drag it to the right. if i had known that before...

#26 Kulyok

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Posted 12 November 2009 - 10:45 PM

i just found out you can make your skill quick slot bigger...way bigger. just hold onto the end of it and drag it to the right. if i had known that before...


OMG. You just made my day.

#27 WeeRLegion

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 12:32 AM

Sleep + Nightmare == Oh yes!


Oh yes, that's a favourite. It pretty much kills any lower HP creeps you run across, mages and archers for one, just a little something on top...
Of course it's also great just for taking someone out from almost the whole of the rest of the fight. @_@

#28 Eleima

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 03:00 AM

i just found out you can make your skill quick slot bigger...way bigger. just hold onto the end of it and drag it to the right. if i had known that before...

OMG. You just made my day.


And mine!!! I' can't believe I hadn't noticed that before!!! Thanks a bunch, Discordia!!!!


I was able to beat just about ever boss on normal mode...though I must admit a few of them were quite hard and required a few reloads such as

Spoiler

Oh yes, that one was a m*major* pain for me... Really though to kill.

Edited by Eleima, 13 November 2009 - 03:02 AM.

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#29 Vicen

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 03:04 AM

i just found out you can make your skill quick slot bigger...way bigger. just hold onto the end of it and drag it to the right. if i had known that before...

OMG. You just made my day.


And mine!!! I' can't believe I hadn't noticed that before!!! Thanks a bunch, Discordia!!!!


I was able to beat just about ever boss on normal mode...though I must admit a few of them were quite hard and required a few reloads such as

Spoiler

Oh yes, that one was a m*major* pain for me... Really though to kill.



Lol add another newb to the list who did not know...very handy now that im a mage and need every spot I can get!

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#30 WeeRLegion

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 04:29 AM

Oh yes, that one was a m*major* pain for me... Really though to kill.



Teehee. The trick with the
Spoiler
is to play cheap. She doesn't move, and her ranged attacks and tentacles deal fairly crap damage, so just pull out your bows and start shooting, and only take up melee if the tentacles/darkspawn get too close.
Did her in without a single reload. ^^

EDIT: Oh, and I did reserve my mage for heal duty, can't afford to run out of healing in a raw slugging match.

Edited by WeeRLegion, 13 November 2009 - 04:34 AM.


#31 Lord Ernie

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Posted 13 November 2009 - 06:44 AM

I just finished the game with my Elf mage (specializations: Spirit Healer & Blood Mage), and my party consisted most of the time out of Alistair (tank), Sten (secondary tank and damage dealer), and Leliana (lockpicking + sniping of important targets). My tactics consisted mostly of drawing all the enemies on Alistair, and using my mage's powerful battlefield control spells to make sure none of them were fighting with maximum effectiveness.

Spell advice:

As said before: the two Blood Mage spells are just meanly good, and are really the only reason to become bloodmage except for some of the more extreme blood mage + arcane warrior combo's. Blood Wound is awesome, stunning enemies and killing them over time; Blood Control is just fun, and I've managed to take control of elite and boss monsters several times... it's hilarious.

The horror/sleep/nightmare series of spells are really good battlefield control. Horror disables a single enemy that decides to go after your mage, sleep makes sure the usual barrage of enemy archers stands around not doing anything useful, and nightmare is great for throwing into the melee, as it makes 2/3 of the enemies fight each other or just stand about. Very partly friendly spells, too.

Fireball. It's not party friendly, but it's great for knocking down and damaging large groups of ranged enemies while the melee fighters close in for the kill. Inferno (the bigger version) takes a lot of time to set up, but since you can cast it without line of sight, it's great for burning the enemies in the next room to death without having to run in there.

Every spell in the Mind Blast/Forcefield/Telekinetic Weapons/Crushing Prison series. Mind Blast is a good 'stop hitting my mage' panic button, Forcefield has several applications (Taunt + Forcefield + lots of area spells is my favourite), telekinetic weapons let your melee warriors hit where it hurts, and Crushing Prison is great for taking those annoying mages out of the fight.

As Ananximander said, the hex line of spells is great once you have enough options for crowd control, as they really ruin a solo creature's day. Misdirection hex makes them hit squat, and death hex turns every one of your melee fighters into crit machines.

Out of the Creation spells, the only really useful ones I've found was Heal. Spirit Healer gives some more options, as Group Heal and Revive are great, Life Ward is a good setup for big fights, and the healing aura ultimate clears any injuries off your party members (although I never was lacking in injury kits).

EDIT: Note that almost all of these spells are 'fast-cast', which I feel is a requirement for most good spells. I tried the paralyze school of spells, but the Miasma aura just sucks, and the Mass Paralyze spell is one of the 'long-cast' spells, and only lasts a couple of seconds. Totally not worth it, IMO.

Edited by Lord Ernie, 13 November 2009 - 06:50 AM.

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#32 WeeRLegion

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 01:14 PM

Someone somewhere around here at some point was telling all about how rogues suck. I'd have to disagree.

I've been playing a double rogue party for a good ways through the game now, and for the most part it's actually been easier than with a more combat oriented party.

A rogue cannot be played as a warrior in any way, so much should be taken as obvious, they just don't have what it takes to take a beating. They're the ultimate team players; to play them properly you'll also need a strong tank, with threaten active in all combats and taunt ready for use whenever needed, and a mage with strong crowd control skills.

The thing with a rogue is, it's all about 4 things:
1) Sneak
2) Backstab

3) Poison/Grenades
4) Traps

Maybe even lockpicking, some good money in that; a rogue will have little to no use for conventional combat talents when played right (AFAIK, you can't get backstab bonuses for melee talents; a rogue in a backstab position might deal reduced damage with a talent compared to a basic backstab, someone shoot me if I'm wrong though).
*Momentum is great though, since it only increases your attack speed. Faster stab = win.

So, point #1.
Lack of sneak talents makes a vanilla, start-out Leliana, fairly lousy: a rogue's part in the team is very much sneaking around, disarming traps before the rest of the team moves in, and the sort.
But also sneaking up to enemy spellcasters and archers, ready to stab them up in the first seconds of combat.
For a double rogue team this works particularly well; place them on opposite sides of the target, then throw in some Dirty Fighting with one of them, let it take effect, and start stabbing. If the target doesn't go down fast enough, throw in a DF from the other rogue as well.
It's sweet, whichever way the target turns, it'll still get stabbed for massive damage.

I tend to simultaneously order Morrigan to cast sleep on the crowd and move in and taunt 'em all with Alistair; in bigger fights it's pretty much required, or the stab team will drop quickly.

Level 3 sneak is a must have, so you'll have a chance of escaping even if your tank can't get all the aggro or the crowd control doesn't work well enough, and assassin spec is a bonus, for the bonus stab.

#2
Well, pretty much covered in the previous point, but I'll still say it; a warrior you can just throw in, and if you've got all the hack-n-slash abilities triggered at the nearest enemy, you can expect to get some results.
A rogue needs to be micromanaged, positioned in a backstab angle.
Failing at that, you're going to wind up with a second-rate warrior. Succeeding, methinks you can out-DPS most warriors on the average over a prolonged fight; later in the battle everyone's low on stamina, and warriors thus low on DPS, but that's no hindrance to backstabbing.

#3
Wub Zev for the 3rd level poison skills. If you pick up enough grenade recipes and make sure to stock up on ingredients (corruptor agent, flasks, and some of those pesky minerals mostly), you can seriously load up a rogue to deal mass damage.
Certainly others can learn basic poison skills for the grenade use as well, but rogues have the advantage of sneak (though in wide-spread, archer infested encounters that bonus is kinda nil); a rogue can toss in AoE damage while the enemies are standing in the original parade arrangement.
So, if you've got, say, acid grenades, fire grenades, and electricity grenades, and two rogues, that makes a maximum of 2 grenades of all types that you can toss in the first few seconds of combat, 6 grenades total. And what's that? That's cheap-ass mass damage, that's what it is.
Particularly wonderful against yellow-titled wizards who may have too many HPs to go down fast enough to pure stab-damage.

#4
In the BG series, traps are relatively rare, but devastating. In DAO, traps are scattered everywhere, but few of them pose much threat by themselves. But they're pretty damn annoying, I think you'll agree. The last thing you want to see in the middle of a big fight is your healer suddenly turning her gaze to the ground and trying to yank her foot free from a silly claw-trap.
So yeah, I think it's worth it putting some skills into lockpicking, as that's what works for traps too AFAIK, you won't lose much, and it might save you a few reloads. And get you some little cash and equipment, which you'll need if you're going to keep your grenade stores on par with the demand. .p
And yes, at 2nd level sneak you can disarm stuff while stealthed. Hooray for progress. o_o



So, umm, yeah.
Sure, some of the forced ambushes and especially chaotic mass melees (back alley justices and the sort) may be a little bit tougher, but me being a hater of enemy traps, archers and spellcaster most of all, I think the bonuses outweight the penalties. ^^

Edited by WeeRLegion, 16 November 2009 - 10:28 PM.


#33 Kulyok

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 10:40 PM

I kinda found all rogue skills redundant - too much micromanaging. I had to use level 1 stealth and level 1 stealing, but only to get eight extra quests in Denerim. As for traps and poisons, I found them to be a waste of time. But that's me - and I want my game as primitive as possible: tanks and rogues charge, mage casts Blizzard and Tempest, then Cone of Cold. I wish I could deactivate all party tactics and just tell them myself what to do, like in Baldur's Gate: as it is, my party members obviously don't understand the simplest rule of combat, which is "attack each target together".

#34 WeeRLegion

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Posted 16 November 2009 - 10:49 PM

I kinda found all rogue skills redundant - too much micromanaging. I had to use level 1 stealth and level 1 stealing, but only to get eight extra quests in Denerim. As for traps and poisons, I found them to be a waste of time. But that's me - and I want my game as primitive as possible: tanks and rogues charge, mage casts Blizzard and Tempest, then Cone of Cold. I wish I could deactivate all party tactics and just tell them myself what to do, like in Baldur's Gate: as it is, my party members obviously don't understand the simplest rule of combat, which is "attack each target together".


Give all your party members this tactic:

Trigger:
Enemy > Target of party member > Controlled party member
Action:
Attack

Taddah! That should be instant focus fire. ^^

Alternatively you could use the trigger:
Enemy > Target of party member > [your main tank/ a party mebmer of your choosing]

This'd leave you free to micromanage your spellcasters with no risk of messing up your focus when you target someone other than the current focus-mark with CC spells or such.


Take my word for this at least; a proper tactics configuration can make your life SO much easier.
Say, put your tank to auto-taunt whenever an party member is attacked with a melee attack.
Put your mage to automatically cast crushing prison / whoopass spell of your choosing on enemy wizards (sure, you'll do a better job micromanaging this, but sometimes those pesky wizards do sneak up on you).

Edited by WeeRLegion, 16 November 2009 - 10:55 PM.


#35 Kulyok

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:42 AM

Trigger:
Enemy > Target of party member > Controlled party member
Action:
Attack


Looks like a good strategy. Thank you!

#36 Kulyok

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 01:47 AM

Worked like a charm! You rock better than Shale! Thank you.

#37 Michael

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:53 AM

http://www.damods.co....php?topic=28.0

Nightmare got you sad? Discontent with only a reload or three during a boss fight? Think that fighting the
Spoiler
should actually make you feel like you're being tentacle-raped? Then boy, have they got a mod for you!

This does make tactics far more important, especially when you can't rely on a mage or two getting you through a good chunk of the game simply on their own merits. That mod really makes you focus on party balance, and effective tactical decisions in both short-term and long-term situations.

It's painful.
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#38 WeeRLegion

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 09:35 AM

@Kulyok
Happy to help. :]
You can do some interesting stuff with the tactics once you get familiar with the options. :]

However that they did not include an exception clause/kept it overly simple does mean that every now and then -particularly in battles where the enemy has special scripts for AI- any configuration you'll come up with is going to backfire.
But eh, I'll still much rather live with it than without it. ^^



@Michael
Holy crap... What kind of an masochist would take that thing anywhere near their game installation? XD

Edited by WeeRLegion, 17 November 2009 - 09:36 AM.


#39 Choo Choo

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 02:16 PM

http://www.damods.co....php?topic=28.0


...

Yikes.

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#40 Grunker

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Posted 17 November 2009 - 05:29 PM

Wow. Some people like their difficulty.
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