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Question: Why block access to BG1 after transition to BG2?


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#61 Creepin

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Posted 10 October 2014 - 10:01 AM

Well, it's more a factual case that the two map areas are not connected by anything(expect a script that works in one direction just like the Console -command MoveToArea...), and my mod will fix that.
 
My butt should be kicked...
Ah, I see, thanks a lot! So it's just BGT didn't connected areas of BG1 & BG2 in the first place, that actually makes sense.

I'll try to figure out how are new mod areas are supposed to be connected with vanilla ones and will try to apply the same to BG1 part of BW, but I'm not mod-versed that much, so let me know if you'll need help with that butt kicking you mentioned :)

Hmm, or may be I should start with Gate District, check how outdoor areas of BG2 are switched to be accessible first time you trying to leave Athkatla via gates, and slam BG1 areas to the list.

Edited by Creepin, 10 October 2014 - 10:06 AM.

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#62 micbaldur

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Posted 11 October 2014 - 08:09 AM

My butt should be kicked... 

Maybe it should also lent my boot with other volunteers. I live quite close, you know. :P


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#63 -Vlad-

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 02:37 PM

You need to manually link areas like ar3000 is linked to SoA - use XL files for every area and define the links. Also these links should be mutually added to the existing areas. I've done that in upcoming NeJ3.

Vlad.

#64 The Imp

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Posted 07 January 2015 - 10:17 PM

I heard that the upcoming Enhanced Edition Trilogy has this feature included in it too.


Edited by The Imp, 07 January 2015 - 10:23 PM.

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#65 Vlad

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:00 PM

They are thieves and f**g plagiators selling buggy mods. I really detest what they do, and I'll put a block in NeJ3 so people won't be able to install it over begee. NeJ3 for now introduces 3-4 times more content than begee, and note it's absolutely free and free of bugs, at least until part 4.  :) And I don't have such a big team. In other words, begee and its team really sucks.



#66 Cahir

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 12:05 PM

Well, and there I had hope to try NEJ3 out :crying: That's a bummer....



#67 K4thos

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Posted 08 January 2015 - 10:47 PM

Well, and there I had hope to try NEJ3 out :crying: That's a bummer....

Same here. After playing with EE engine I can't imagine to ever come back to vanilla BG2. And just a note for those discouraged by earlier releases - with patch 1.3 both games plays great.

 

They are thieves and f**g plagiators selling buggy mods. I really detest what they do, and I'll put a block in NeJ3 so people won't be able to install it over begee. NeJ3 for now introduces 3-4 times more content than begee, and note it's absolutely free and free of bugs, at least until part 4.  :) And I don't have such a big team. In other words, begee and its team really sucks.

Maybe you could reconsider a port for EE engine anyway? I've managed to port Secret of Bonehill in 2 days, so it shouldn't be too much work. Currently testing it. I have not played NEJ yet, but if it adds content to both games than maybe I will be interested in creating a version for EET for part 2 and 3 (part 1 is basically IWD, so if it is possible I would rather skip it due to IWD:EE). If you don't mind of course and if there wouldn't be too much work to make part 2 and 3 work without 1. If the mod could work with vanilla BG:EE than I can also offer a help with conversion.

 

You need to manually link areas like ar3000 is linked to SoA - use XL files for every area and define the links. Also these links should be mutually added to the existing areas. I've done that in upcoming NeJ3.

Vlad.

Not sure how it works in vanilla engine but in Enhanced Edition this is even easier. Just create a dummy invisible link area and use Hide/RevealAreaOnMap action when you want to open links. This way you can control how long the travel to BG1/BG2 areas will take and add optional encounters. You can even come back from ToB areas without loosing all already visited map icons by using SetWorldmap action to change worldm25.wmp to worldmap.wmp on the fly. That is how it works in EET (that "greater teleport" spell mentioned in the linked readme file is old implementation that was needed before patch 1.3 for BG2:EE and is now part of optional tweaks).

 

-------------

 

A question for those interested in going back to old areas - how long should it take to travel through Cloud Peaks? I've currently set it to additional 36 hours.


Edited by K4thos, 08 January 2015 - 11:21 PM.


#68 GeN1e

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 12:56 AM

They are thieves and f**g plagiators selling buggy mods. I really detest what they do, and I'll put a block in NeJ3 so people won't be able to install it over begee. NeJ3 for now introduces 3-4 times more content than begee, and note it's absolutely free and free of bugs, at least until part 4.  :) And I don't have such a big team. In other words, begee and its team really sucks.

You know, everybody is entitled to their own opinion. So if you aren't interested in BGEE, that's perfectly fine with me.

 

But if you intend to start calling names, then I'm afraid you're on a slippery slope. Re-using the entire IWD content, distributing it without "you must have IWD installed" part, and then calling the rightful owner a thief?  :lol: Lol, do continue please :D

 

By the way, what was yours that we have stolen? Or anybody else's for that matter?..

 

I'm glad to hear you've managed to handle all the bugs that NEJ2 had, though (thumbsup)


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#69 Vlad

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 04:31 AM

NeJ2 has never been buggy if installed properly. IWD content is only in part 1 and it's much more than IWD content if you played. Who is not reusing areas and graphics??? My mistake posting here. Waste of time.

 

"Thieves" in a sense of thieving gamers' money. It's a moto of any modder: For Gamers By Gamers! At least it started by Ken and everybody were inspired at that time. BGEE team has twisted the true spirit of modding by convincing people that they should pay for a "new game". That's the problem. It's obviously trickery. It's not a new game but merely a mod, like many other mods around. Someone say "new engine"! But again it's not a new engine. Again people are tricked with that. Even there is some modifications on the programming level in order to port to Android, for the end-user it's still the very same engine.

 

K4thos, I don't know what you mean EE engine and where the differences lie. It's another kind of tricks and brain-washing. If you're looking for different interface - no problems, I can do that (in fact it is in NeJ). You're looking for new features, 3d rules, anything - all is possible. SimDing made a strip back in 2002-2003, if I'm not mistaken.

 

EE is not a new game, it's not a new engine, it's just a brain-washing and trickery to pull your money. And the new content introduced is minimal, even for a solid mod. Just be honest with yourself if you understand all this. So what are you talking about? Maybe you have shares there? If not, where all this support come from? Better invest in reviving Dragonlance.


Edited by Vlad, 09 January 2015 - 04:56 AM.


#70 Cahir

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:21 AM

And the new content introduced is minimal, even for a solid mod. 

 

Well, speaking from the position of someone who is translating the new content I couldn't disagree more :) I work my fingers to the bone with this. Yes, maybe there are not so many new areas, but the sheer amount of text...


Edited by Cahir, 09 January 2015 - 05:22 AM.


#71 Almateria

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:47 AM

its me, im the dude ripping the entire iwd1, putting it in bg2 as his own creation, and then having the balls titanic enough to call anyone else a thief in my entire life



#72 GeN1e

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 05:51 AM

NeJ2 has never been buggy if installed properly. IWD content is only in part 1 and it's much more than IWD content if you played. Who is not reusing areas and graphics??? My mistake posting here. Waste of time.

Yes, I have kinda forgotten this "holier than thou" attitude of yours. My mistake...

 

It's a moto of any modder: For Gamers By Gamers! At least it started by Ken and everybody were inspired at that time. BGEE team has twisted the true spirit of modding by convincing people that they should pay for a "new game".

I don't know where it came from, but EE is not modding.

 

EE is not a new game, it's not a new engine, it's just a brain-washing and trickery to pull your money. And the new content introduced is minimal, even for a solid mod. Just be honest with yourself if you understand all this. So what are you talking about? Maybe you have shares there? If not, where all this support come from? Better invest in reviving Dragonlance.

I take it you haven't played BGII:EE then.

 

Vlad, you may find it hard to believe, but I sincerely don't bear you ill will nor hold any grudge. Not in the least because NEJ was the only mod *ever*, whose story I have genuinely liked. As I have said, it's perfectly fine if EE is not your cup of tea. I don't even care if for whatever reason you insist that I suck because I once had offended you with a list of game-breaking issues you didn't seem to want to acknowledge as your own.

But when you use this obnoxious "holier than thou" attitude to bash the company that brought a new life to BG, I find it very hard to tolerate.

 

As for your question, yes, I do have shares there - I work in its development branch, as do several others. Including Avenger, since you've mentioned Dragonlance.


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#73 micbaldur

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Posted 09 January 2015 - 07:03 AM

Nice to see some activity, mostly off topic though. :D

 

Thanks Vlad  :coolthumb:  for making NEJ Part 3 to good old BGs (i'm not fan of EE versions)

 

You need to manually link areas like ar3000 is linked to SoA - use XL files for every area and define the links. Also these links should be mutually added to the existing areas. I've done that in upcoming NeJ3.

Vlad.

I think that this helps (but what do i know, nothing :lol: ) but this mod has one major issue. :(

 

Spoiler


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#74 Creepin

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:11 AM


It's a moto of any modder: For Gamers By Gamers! At least it started by Ken and everybody were inspired at that time. BGEE team has twisted the true spirit of modding by convincing people that they should pay for a "new game".

I don't know where it came from, but EE is not modding.


I rarely agree with Vlad novadays, but he is perfectly correct in this instance: as far as I understood what BGEE is, it's nothing more than randomly slapped together interface mod, some (not even all) exe fixes from TobEX, and a content mod to the size of few NPCs and few areas that doesn't even seamlessly fit into vanilla visually. This mod package is advertised and sold as a new game, which is, frankly, of the lesser concern thanks to TPB, but what's much worse, said mod package forces this new content to the players as 100% mandatory, whereas be it normal mods I could have option to select what parts of this content I do want, and what I don't. This last issue, forcing mediocre NPC mods and badly created area mods as a mandatory, I see as a biggest issue of BGEE.

Not to mention that BGEE sullied great name of a PC epic by allowing it to be played on lesser devices geared towards houseviwes and casuals.

Edited by Creepin, 10 January 2015 - 11:13 AM.

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#75 10th

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 11:26 AM

@Creepin
CamDawg and and the upcoming version of BG2 Fixpack would like to have a word with you...
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#76 The Imp

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 02:24 PM

... said mod package forces this new content to the players as 100% mandatory,
Sorry, I must have mistaken the game you are talking cause in my Baldur's Gate game, I was never MADE to pick a party of 6 members, I could have soloed the whole game were I to have had the inclination... with no reloads etc fun. Actually I don't see that as fun, but you should get the point.
Yes, the BG1EE gives you a chance to recruit additional 4 NPCs, but you can show them the same giant to handle with a toothpick and they'll never bother you ever again.
Not to mention that BGEE sullied great name of a PC epic by allowing it to be played on lesser devices geared towards houseviwes and casuals.
Well, I bet the housewives today have a considerably firmer personal computer between their thumbs that you had when the BG1 came out, so your point being what, I must ask ? In case you failed to understand, the technology that runs both of the devises is similar, the current one is just better in design and so it fits in much smaller space, welcome to the future man. :D
Besides, the Chinese would have eventually done it anyways.

It might be good to also point out that the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition is a Trademark, and so for that to be allowed, The Beamdog had to make a sales treaty with the original Baldur's Gate Trademark owner. Now, I don't know what that entails, but I am pretty sure that it was more than ... sell your ¤%&# on our good name.
K4thos, I don't know what you mean EE engine and where the differences lie.
Just like with the different main conversion packs for the BG1 parts in what can be sad to be BG2's engine(BGT, BGT-weidu, BG1Tutu, EasyTutu, BG1EE ), a small portion of the code might need to be slightly adjusted to fit in the current game for compatibility. Things like file names.

The close definition of the different engines needs to be broadened to fit into this sense of reality... yeah, the architect is very similar, but seeing things in mirror does not make the stairs under you in the picture any more real if there's a hole in the ground in front of you where the stairs should be. Yes, technically it can be said that all the games uses is the Infinity Engine... but you can't say that they do not use different sub versions of that engine.

I believe what K4thos was offering is that possibly, he could take the Nej's code, and add the needed changes to it so that it would be compatible with the normal BG2 game as well as the BG2EE game, and then give it back to you to do what you wish. And if then you would need any explanations to read the code, he would give it.

K, that was a rather small, but still waallish post of text, that simply, should say, that let's try to be kind to one another and not start yet another flame wars, those never end up good for any sides, k. Thanks.

Edited by The Imp, 10 January 2015 - 03:11 PM.

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#77 Vlad

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 03:31 PM

Thanks, Creepin. Basically that's it.

 

I believe what K4thos was offering is that possibly, he could take the Nej's code, and add the needed changes to it so that it would be compatible with the normal BG2 game as well as the BG2EE game, and then give it back to you to do what you wish. 

 

Luckily, this will never happen. I won't associate myself with beamdogs.

 

Like many, I'm pretty content with the original BG series and with BGT made by Ascension. I'm definitely against supporting begee mods in their present paid form. Re-read what Creein said and be honest, people. It's just all cosmetics, no new engine, no new content except a few NPC and minor area mods, which become insignificant in view of tons of different mods around. It's all commerce and nothing, really nothing else. If beamdogs releases a new interesting game based on Infinity Engine, I'd definitely support it, but making money on what other modders provide for free is really really bad.


Edited by Vlad, 10 January 2015 - 03:34 PM.


#78 Cahir

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 03:41 PM

Well, don't know for whom it is luckily, I always wanted to try out NEJ. Shame it won't happen:(

I'm also fail to see why porting the game to mobile devices is a bad thing... but maybe it's just me.

#79 K4thos

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 08:28 PM

Ok, I get it. Because modders supported the game for free, rightful owners no longer have moral rights to make money, if part of it can be achieved by unofficial modifications and exe hacking. Directly modifying engine source code is called modding these days. Those who support Enhanced Editions are brainwashed. All modders that were hired by Beamdog (including SHS admin if I remember correctly) should be ashamed. :ermm:



#80 Cahir

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Posted 10 January 2015 - 10:58 PM

Ok, I get it. Because modders supported the game for free, rightful owners no longer have moral rights to make money, if part of it can be achieved by unofficial modifications and exe hacking. Directly modifying engine source code is called modding these days. Those who support Enhanced Editions are brainwashed. All modders that were hired by Beamdog (including SHS admin if I remember correctly) should be ashamed.  :ermm:

 

Well, I feel comfortable being brainwashed like that, then.

But anyways, Vlad, I thought modders do mods for as many players as possible. Cutting off EE players just means less players trying NEJ, dead simple. Of course, it's entirely possible that those who prefer EE are of inferior category and don't deserve to play da best mod evah...not supporting EE I can understand, but blocking access to conversion on purpose is, odd, to put it mildly.


Edited by Cahir, 11 January 2015 - 12:03 AM.