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#61 The Imp

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 01:26 PM

The fact that just few areas had higher respawn rates IMO confirms that it was intentional.
 
I've managed to explore those Ruins without cheesy tactics in my first playthrough, almost 15 years ago, when I wasn't an experienced player yet. It has been difficult, but very rewarding in the end :)

Erhm, but you go to the BG1 game and go to the map, you see that it's not actually a "respawn rate", it's a respawn point that has a millisecond respawn rate, so every time you do not see the point in the area map, the monster respawns, and as the area is a dungeon, the creature can spawn multiple times in the point cause you lack the capability to see the point as you should be walking through the area with a full party.
Yes, I remember that I always set a guard(a character) to a point in the dungeon so the dogs wouldn't pop up from no where too... it was a pain in the behind.
So the alleged respawn rate you are after is actually a bug in the original game. The BG1EE didn't want to recreate that so they set the rate to a practical number which then makes the area a lot easier... see ? Yes, they could increase the spawn points/number of creatures per point, and thus make the dungeon a little harder, without the actual bug that was in the original game... but that's not what you are after, is it, but the buggy behavior. :mellow:


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#62 Erg

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 01:56 PM

Erhm, but you go to the BG1 game and go to the map, you see that it's not actually a "respawn rate", it's a respawn point that has a millisecond respawn rate, so every time you do not see the point in the area map, the monster respawns, and as the area is a dungeon, the creature can spawn multiple times in the point cause you lack the capability to see the point as you should be walking through the area with a full party.
Yes, I remember that I always set a guard(a character) to a point in the dungeon so the dogs wouldn't pop up from no where too... it was a pain in the behind.
So the alleged respawn rate you are after is actually a bug in the original game. The BG1EE didn't want to recreate that so they set the rate to a practical number which then makes the area a lot easier... see ? Yes, they could increase the spawn points/number of creatures per point, and thus make the dungeon a little harder, without the actual bug that was in the original game... but that's not what you are after, is it, but the buggy behavior. :mellow:

 

Actually, my preferred spawning system is the Tutu one (respawn rates 24 hours in-game time, number of critters based on difficulty level only, but usually higher than vanilla at core or higher), but the devs have said they will never go for that on BG:EE, so I must settle for the vanilla behaviour at least, but really everything should be better than the current system that lacks challenge completely.

 

Besides, I still don't think that the vanilla behaviour is bugged. Otherwise it would be a very selective and smart bug because it only affects areas where an high spawn rate makes sense (Firewine Ruins, Gnoll Stronghold, and, on lesser extent, High Edge, Ulcaster Ruins and Cloakwood Mines Level 3) :)



#63 Tash

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 02:20 PM

We're discussing a very specific aspect here, for some reason. That's the charm of a forum, I guess. I tried to channel all this energy onto some reviewer who couldn't handle IWD without the cheat mode. It didn't work.

 

Needless to say, I always play TotSC as originally designed and I love it. Even if Firewine Ruins weren't supposed to have those spawns, I still think it works great. Think about it: everyone in the game advises you against going there. To me, it looks as if it was meant to be a tough dungeon; not to be attempted by light-headed attack-forget clickers. If you're a casual gamer, you only care about the main story, you don't go there -- it's a side-quest dungeon and it's hard. Maybe the designers actually wanted you to use your brain a little and search for a different entrance?

 

Personally, I don't find combat irritating, neither in BG1 nor in IWD. Just play it smart, take it slow, and accept the consequences. Make it easier than that, and you'll never see people use Resurrect. Might as well remove it from the game; nobody needs it. Remove death all together -- you don't want your precious gamers to die and get frustrated, do you? Players just throw away all the responsibility for their actions. Reckless runs through narrow corridors with mages up front will make you hate this game. How about you just think while playing, and stop eating/watching a movie/chatting at the same time, hmm?


Edited by Eleima, 02 November 2014 - 10:25 PM.
Think what you will of the reviewer, but no name calling. Insult removed.


#64 Erg

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 02:43 PM

Tash, I agree with almost everything you wrote. However, and to be back on topic, as I said elsewhere, I don't blame that reviewer, but Beamdog for the introduction of the "Story Mode". With the "Story Mode" on, IWD:EE is de facto a casual game, so it is to be expected that some people will start playing and/or reviewing it like a casual game.



#65 Cahir

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 03:10 PM

With the "Story Mode" on, IWD:EE is de facto a casual game, so it is to be expected that some people will start playing and/or reviewing it like a casual game.

 

And with "Story Mode" off, it's not. That's the beauty of having a choice :) It's not like developers forcing you to use it, you know. They decided to implement it in a best possible way - as an option. You don't like it, you don't turn it on and just forget about it.

 

As for spawning rate, personally I found vanilla spawning rate rather annoying. Firewine Dungeons, e.g, was hard, yes, but in this annoying way, if you know what I mean. But...I can hear you guys, I also find BG:EE spawn system toned down too drastically .It should be something in the middle, for sure. But to see this as a one of the main reasons to shelve BG:EE is a bit steep to me.

 

Anyway, there were a few voices against the present state of spawn system, so maybe developers will adjust it a bit. Let's hope so.



#66 Avenger_teambg

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 03:47 PM

It is exactly the same. Besides, the spawning system in BGEE wasn't intentionally nerfed. There was a bug that caused instant respawns on quicksave/reload.

Actually, we work on a fix that would restore the spawn rates without this bug. But this should be entirely unrelated to IWDEE, because in IWD(EE) they didn't use the BG spawn system.

They used their own .ini which has different features.

 

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you correctly. Are you saying that there is nothing wrong with BG:EE, because it has already been fixed, or that you are currently working on a fix for the next patch?

 

If the former, then you are clearly not very up to date on the matter. In that case check the official BG:EE Forums or speak to Dee and he can confirm that the decision to drastically tone down spawn rates was taken intentionally to accommodate casual players.

 

Also this is not unrelated to IWD:EE because if you are saying that there is nothing wrong with the spawning system in BG:EE at the moment, than I cannot trust your judgement about IWD:EE.

 

Edit: Found the relevant post from Dee on the official BG:EE Forums: http://forum.baldurs...#Comment_544332

I must be up to date enough since i worked on the fix I mentioned, (it is not in the current BGEE). What Dee said is 99% true. There was a bug in vanilla BG1 which caused very rapid spawns, this was uninentional even in the original release. This was fixed, but the default spawn rate of BG2 is too slow (8 hours ingame). So, i've added some options that let the modders/scripters control the spawn points better (can't tell about this more before it is actually released). 


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#67 Erg

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Posted 31 October 2014 - 04:37 PM

I must be up to date enough since i worked on the fix I mentioned, (it is not in the current BGEE). What Dee said is 99% true. There was a bug in vanilla BG1 which caused very rapid spawns, this was uninentional even in the original release. This was fixed, but the default spawn rate of BG2 is too slow (8 hours ingame). So, i've added some options that let the modders/scripters control the spawn points better (can't tell about this more before it is actually released). 

 

So it's the latter. Good to know.

 

However, I will reserve my judgement for when the patch is actually out, so that I can actually test the spawns myself. Based on the current speed of the patching cycle that should be in a couple of years or more :)

 

You can't really blame me for being cautious as Beamdog has disappointed me so many times. For example, the spawning system in BG:EE has been announced as fixed at every patch release when actually it still wasn't/isn't :)

 

Until then I will keep playing the original games, including IWD-in-BG2 with its spawns provided by a bewildering array of invisible creatures :)

 

Edit: also I'm sorry but I don't believe you about the BG1 vanilla spawning rates being bugged. Beamdog has a tendency to arbitrarily call bugs things that aren't, just to have an excuse to change them when they are not supposed to touch them :)

 

Anyway, if the fix in the next patch will provide enough versatility to modders/scripters to reproduce also the current vanilla behaviour, it should not matter whether vanilla is to be considered bugged or not.


Edited by Erg, 31 October 2014 - 04:54 PM.


#68 Almateria

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Posted 01 November 2014 - 06:03 AM

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Avenger_teambg" data-cid="572929" data-time="1414769281"><p>
<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="Almateria" data-cid="571736" data-time="1409604995"><p>It's incredibly low effort and they're not even pretending that it's not all solvable by mods.</p></blockquote>
 <br />
This is such a dimwitted statement, i couldn't even imagine how could you arrive at it. Do you have a complete conversion in the making? Why don't you release it?<br />
I started adding code to IWDEE without the source code in hand, we did receive the source a while later (particularly the HoW source near the end of the development).<br />
So, don't blab about efforts if you don't know one. <br />
The engine now allows modding of projectiles like GemRB does. That alone would worth this from a modder perspective (if you ever did something more than NPC mods).</p></blockquote>

It's kind of adorable how you guys rush in to defend your precious video game baby, no matter how terrible it might be. Like soccer moms, really

#69 Yovaneth

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 03:08 AM

It's kind of adorable how you guys rush in to defend your precious video game baby, no matter how terrible it might be. Like soccer moms, really

Please - if all you can do is troll, then don't. If you can improve the game by modding it - and at least you have proved you can mod - then do so. We'd all appreciate it. But don't troll because it's irritating and it doesn't do you any good either.

 

-Y-



#70 Eleima

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Posted 02 November 2014 - 10:24 PM

This goes for both Tash and Almateria, name calling and ad hominem attacks are not tolerated on this forum.  Please refrain from doing so in the future.


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#71 DavidWallace

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Posted 05 November 2014 - 02:54 AM


It's incredibly low effort and they're not even pretending that it's not all solvable by mods.

(snip)Do you have a complete conversion in the making? Why don't you release it?
 



As someone who does have a complete conversion in the making, and did release it, let me stress that there are major things can only be done crudely and in a performance-affecting, bugridden way, by a mod, and other major things that can't be done at all. I'm sorry to play the expertise card, but the main author of the most developed IWD conversion mod to date is telling you that it's not all solvable by mods, not even close.

#72 Mike1072

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 08:15 PM

Isn't the EE short for Enhanced Edition, not Extended Edition?

 

The news thread and some of the reviews have been calling it an Extended Edition, but I don't see that listed anywhere officially.


Edited by Mike1072, 15 November 2014 - 08:18 PM.


#73 Kulyok

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Posted 15 November 2014 - 11:40 PM

The site(baldursgate.com) says Icewind Dale: Enhanced Edition, so that's what I used in IWD NPC readme.

 

EDIT: Here: http://www.icewinddale.com/


Edited by Kulyok, 15 November 2014 - 11:40 PM.


#74 The Imp

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Posted 16 November 2014 - 01:37 AM

Isn't the EE short for Enhanced Edition, not Extended Edition?
It's a simple spelling mistake... and the "EE" doesn't mean anything... or more like everything from Epic Encounters to Estonian Internet directory and Everything Everywhere... so people should really stop using it and instead give a little more context with the few more letters from the alphabet. There's only 26 of them in the English α-bet, it can't be that hard to learn to use more than one.

Edited by The Imp, 16 November 2014 - 02:22 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#75 K4thos

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Posted 17 November 2014 - 12:30 PM

Is there a list of engine changes and new features possible to do in IWD:EE engine compared to BG(2):EE? Avenger_teambg, maybe you could try to convince Beamdog devs to release all of the documents if it doesn't brake the contract. I remember that back in 2012 huge parts of formats documentation were released upon requests on Beamdog forum, but how I can request something particular if I don't even know what have been changed/added... Maybe I've missed some topic that explains stuff like the above mentioned new projectile properties etc.?

Also is there any chance that the tool that you are using to investigate EE crash dumps will become available for modders?


Edited by K4thos, 17 November 2014 - 12:38 PM.


#76 CamDawg

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Posted 21 November 2014 - 09:08 AM

Is there a list of engine changes and new features possible to do in IWD:EE engine compared to BG(2):EE? Avenger_teambg, maybe you could try to convince Beamdog devs to release all of the documents if it doesn't brake the contract. I remember that back in 2012 huge parts of formats documentation were released upon requests on Beamdog forum, but how I can request something particular if I don't even know what have been changed/added... Maybe I've missed some topic that explains stuff like the above mentioned new projectile properties etc.?

A whole mess of stuff was posted to the IESDP forum.


Why is this Hypnotoad video so popu... ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD.
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