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Transition issues


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#1 Vlad

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:03 AM

I strongly recommend you to fix the transition as soon as possible, as I suggested in the pinned topic. The native BGT BG1 to BG2 transition is very problematic. I don't understand why nobody cares!



#2 Bill Bisco

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:26 AM

Are you using the BWP fixpack? That might be part of youe problem.
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#3 K4thos

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Posted 24 August 2015 - 11:42 PM

There are quite a few fixes for BGT that awaits for inclusion and warrant a new release. Ascension64 is missing in action for more than a year, so it's unlikely that he will update the mod soon. During EET development I've analyzed whole BGT code, so I could take care of maintaining BGT and fix stuff without breaking other things, until he returns. I will contact Kaeloree if this is an option and send a PM to A64 regarding it.



#4 Salk

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 02:18 AM

That would be a real blessing for us BGT users, K4thos.

 

I don't think A64 will be back from his retirement and even if he did, the main focus would probably be ToBEx.


Edited by Salk, 25 August 2015 - 04:29 AM.


#5 Lollorian

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 03:16 AM

Yes! An update would be awesome :coolthumb:

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#6 Bill Bisco

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 05:29 AM

Thank you K4thos.
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#7 Bill Bisco

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Posted 25 August 2015 - 05:55 AM

Thank you K4thos.
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#8 Vlad

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 03:26 PM

Just use my code, no need for additional fixing. Only adjust items if you don't use containers.



#9 K4thos

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 03:53 PM

No response from Kaeloree yet. As for your code Vlad first I would need to know if any mod actually uses BGT transition system. If yes than your proposition risks compatibility problems. BGT transition does tons of useless loops but you can probably make it instant by just adding Continue() in existing code instead of completely replacing whole script with a single block. Many mods claims to be compatible with BGT and yet I can't find a single NPC that would add BGT like transition or journal deletion (other than newest NEJ). Is anyone aware about mods with full BGT transition compatibility? Any links?


Edited by K4thos, 27 August 2015 - 04:01 PM.


#10 Vlad

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 04:16 PM

I am only aware of NeJ3  :lol:

 

Anyway, you should at least remove all those needless NPC checks which are dropped anyway. Take into account only Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Viconia, Edwin and my Shar-Teel as I do. You may also take into account other NPCs mods written for both BG1 and BG2, if any. I am aware only of my Shar-Teel.  :lol:

 

Remove 100 checks for friends, place items in arrays (containers), move the aforementioned NPCs smartly via MoveBetweenAreas (if you want) and you're done.

 

As to Continue(), it's pretty buggy in IE, so beware of frequently using that. After several failed attempts to run some scripts as I wanted, I've removed Continue(), and now everything works like a charm. So, I consider removing Continue() from all scripts. Believe me, what people say here about loops because there is no Continue() introduced at the end of each block is nonsense. Just learn writing scripts that all states would run when they should and in the order you want, and you don't need to invent things.


Edited by Vlad, 27 August 2015 - 04:34 PM.


#11 Fiann of the Silver Hand

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 09:21 PM

I am interested in more detailed accounts of inaccurate transitions.



#12 Roxanne

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Posted 27 August 2015 - 10:48 PM

No response from Kaeloree yet. As for your code Vlad first I would need to know if any mod actually uses BGT transition system. If yes than your proposition risks compatibility problems. BGT transition does tons of useless loops but you can probably make it instant by just adding Continue() in existing code instead of completely replacing whole script with a single block. Many mods claims to be compatible with BGT and yet I can't find a single NPC that would add BGT like transition or journal deletion (other than newest NEJ). Is anyone aware about mods with full BGT transition compatibility? Any links?

The BGT transition is used by at least Braegar and Sandrah, both create continuos NPCs between BG1 and BG2. There is the possibility of one loop I have encountered while coding the Sandrah transition and I repaired it with a code block:

Spoiler

With this added I had never any issues with the transition regardless of group composition (and my party at the end of BG1 is NEVER the vanilla party mentioned above).

Some of the new BG1 NPCs (Isra, Valerie) initially did not take the BGT transition into account and I had to add them (maybe they did it in the mods by now, I have not checked) so these NPCs stayed in the party and thus appeared twice in BG2.

Spoiler

 

Note that I use Continue() in these scipts and there has never been any issue with that


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#13 Vlad

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 06:22 AM

The problem with Continue() is that some blocks in the script are bypassed, either because it's too fast or any other problem, I don't know. But the fact is that it doesn't work like people say. Again it dependens on the specific script and specific arrangement of the blocks in the script, but I prefer safe coding and never rely on what other say until I check it myself. Here, I'm sure Continue() is problematic.


Edited by Vlad, 28 August 2015 - 06:23 AM.


#14 Roxanne

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 09:32 AM

No response from Kaeloree yet. As for your code Vlad first I would need to know if any mod actually uses BGT transition system. If yes than your proposition risks compatibility problems. BGT transition does tons of useless loops but you can probably make it instant by just adding Continue() in existing code instead of completely replacing whole script with a single block. Many mods claims to be compatible with BGT and yet I can't find a single NPC that would add BGT like transition or journal deletion (other than newest NEJ). Is anyone aware about mods with full BGT transition compatibility? Any links?

The BGT transition is used by at least Braegar and Sandrah, both create continuos NPCs between BG1 and BG2. There is the possibility of one loop I have encountered while coding the Sandrah transition and I repaired it with a code block:

Spoiler

With this added I had never any issues with the transition regardless of group composition (and my party at the end of BG1 is NEVER the vanilla party mentioned above).

Some of the new BG1 NPCs (Isra, Valerie) initially did not take the BGT transition into account and I had to add them (maybe they did it in the mods by now, I have not checked) so these NPCs stayed in the party and thus appeared twice in BG2.

Spoiler

 

Note that I use Continue() in these scipts and there has never been any issue with that

Edit . K#Rose is also a continuous character, even if she has never been really finished or developped in SoA. In addition, in the script, also Imoen, Jaheira, Minsc, Viconia and Edwin are transferred, even though I never saw that happening, their appearance in SoA is their BG2 incarnation.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#15 The Imp

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Posted 27 September 2015 - 04:12 AM

The problem with Continue() is that some blocks in the script are bypassed, either because it's too fast or any other problem, I don't know. But the fact is that it doesn't work like people say. Again it dependens on the specific script and specific arrangement of the blocks in the script, but I prefer safe coding and never rely on what other say until I check it myself. Here, I'm sure Continue() is problematic.
Ok, then let's see how you would edit the script ? Cause it doesn't help us at all that you have a "solution" that can be applied when it's on no ones hands. I am sure Lollorian could make a PATCH solutiom to the existing BGT file that will take all this in to account if it was needed... cause he just needs to diff the two files.

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#16 Vlad

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 02:39 AM

I have already posted the transition script in the pinned topic and attached my files some time ago.



#17 Roxanne

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 03:13 AM

I have already posted the transition script in the pinned topic and attached my files some time ago.

I have used Vlad's transition script for a number of test runs and it works as described in his earlier posts.(I did not look at the item transition aspects, only NPC transition)

The Pros - It is faster, less canditate for bugs, and  - since large part of it is ONE cutscene - it does not suffer from the player trying to interfere with the process.

The Cons - by Vlad's design it only takes into account those NPCs he has listed. Any other modder needs to decide whether to transfer or remove from party the NPC. This should be done before the big cutscene starts. I have done this for my Sandrah NPC and she was transferred as continous character to Amn. However, other than her pure transition all additional contents she has for ARAN00 (including jounal updates, setting of globals and adding her story how/why she got to Amn) was lost - that was expected since this contents would have to be integrated into the ONE cutscene (complex but feasible).

 

Having now used both transition scripts extensively for continuous and *normal* NPC transitions, I found both can be used, provided that modders of BG1 NPCs are aware of the version used and adjust their NPC scripts accordingly. (The issue that some modders forget to remove their NPC at the end of BG1 for the BGT version is present in both cases).

 

The item transition aspect needs to be looked at by someone who is interested in that topic (which I am not),


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#18 Roxanne

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Posted 01 October 2015 - 08:02 AM

I have already posted the transition script in the pinned topic and attached my files some time ago.

I have used Vlad's transition script for a number of test runs and it works as described in his earlier posts.(I did not look at the item transition aspects, only NPC transition)

The Pros - It is faster, less canditate for bugs, and  - since large part of it is ONE cutscene - it does not suffer from the player trying to interfere with the process.

The Cons - by Vlad's design it only takes into account those NPCs he has listed. Any other modder needs to decide whether to transfer or remove from party the NPC. This should be done before the big cutscene starts. I have done this for my Sandrah NPC and she was transferred as continous character to Amn. However, other than her pure transition all additional contents she has for ARAN00 (including jounal updates, setting of globals and adding her story how/why she got to Amn) was lost - that was expected since this contents would have to be integrated into the ONE cutscene (complex but feasible).

 

Having now used both transition scripts extensively for continuous and *normal* NPC transitions, I found both can be used, provided that modders of BG1 NPCs are aware of the version used and adjust their NPC scripts accordingly. (The issue that some modders forget to remove their NPC at the end of BG1 for the BGT version is present in both cases).

 

The item transition aspect needs to be looked at by someone who is interested in that topic (which I am not),

PS

Those are the two scripts used for the comparison

[attachment=28349:BGT_ARAM00.baf]

[attachment=28350:Vlad_ARAM00.baf]


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*