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Difference between BWS EET and BGT setups


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#1 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 01 March 2017 - 06:23 PM

Hey there fellow BGers

 

I'm a long time Baldur's Gate player and the itch has recently come back to play this masterpiece again.

 

It's been several years since I last ventured into the Forgotten Realms and in the meantime it seems as if modding has caught up with the EE games as well (at least such is the view from outside).

 

I'm planning on installing a playing a full on modded Baldurs Gate with all the best bells and whistles (SoS, TDD, NeJ, BP/SCS, CtB, SR etc) and I was wondering which of the game editions this is best done on these days?

 

 

 

Can someone enlighten me as to the pros/cons vs. each of them?

 

 

 

PS: I'm aware of some recentment from both EE and Vanilla groups vs. the "enemy" edition. I'm not looking for a fight or discussion about this, and I will ask that you keep it out of this discussion. All I'm aiming for is to get the best Baldur's Gate experience that 2017 offers me.

 


Thanks in advance.



#2 Roxanne

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 01:08 AM

I have both played and even created mods for BGT and EET and I always tried to get as much as possible in an install (even at the price that at one point or other you had to revert to console or even repair some code). Those mega-mega installs are never bug free.

Accepting that fact, I would leave all the pros and cons out that are inherited from the base game (i.e. old game vs EE's), that is done elsewhere.

 

BGT

- has the larger selection of mods overall (at this time) but also the greater risk to have incompatible elements in your install. Be careful not to take too much. It helps to use BWS and the fixpack options to reduce both incompatibilities and bugs, but if you go beyond a certain selection, you always do it at your own risk.

- BGT contains a large number of mods that are no longer maintained, BWFixpack tries its best to repair known issue, so highly recommended to use this even if you do not use BWS to install.

- A number of more recent mods no longer take the old game into account, i.e. are not available for BGT. You get little new stuff for BGT, but there is sooo much already that you may not have tried before.

- Regardless of any development, BGT stays a game that *glues together* two separate games and thus provides limited continuity e.g NPCs that are killed in one part re-appear later, you cannot return to a quest in BG1 when you moved into BG2, chapters repeat after the transition etc.

- BGT has a number of *proven* and stable install option (if you use BWS) which almost guaratee you bug free installations based on your personal preferences.

- BGT is hard to maintain, especially the core of it (BGT mod itself) and ToBEX support are not updated anymore. Active support is only by a large player/modder community but no longer by the original makers.

 

EET

- has only some of the big mods at this time (some like CtB or LR are under way) but those that are there have been *renovated* (e.g. all known fixes are included) and it was attempted to balance these mods (reducing exaggerated XP gain, overpowered items or enemies) for a big install.

- EET also offers a daily growing number of new mods that will never be ported back to the old game. Plus not yet converted mods are still being added. (This may also be a chance to loose some fairly outdated mods in the process, there is really stuff in BGT that is there since ages but not needed anymore.)

- Some tweak mods (e.g.SR) make use of new technical features only avaolable in EE to improve their functionality. More kits are available in EET as well.

- Many of the old mods are not simply converted but also improved during that process, often a new modder has *adopted* a long abandoned mod and done the necessary improvements. EET can as well be installed with BWS support.

- EET provides full continuity of the game, i.e. a single worldmap on which you can move freely to all explored areas from any part of the game. NPCs keep their stats/abilities etc through the game, i.e.an NPC you developped during BG1 will not be replaced by a BG2 doppelganger but be the same character. Chapters and journal entries are continued.

- EET contains the whole mssing part between Sarevok's death and your capture by Irenicus and provides a logical sequence of the PC's story.

- EET is young and growing which is good and bad, it does not have the stability of *proven* install options, although the overall game is very stable.

- EET builds a lot on experience made with BGT and thus avoids to repeat all the old mistakes.

- EET has direct and quick support from its creator and other modders + the underlying game itself is still supported by the developpers (also to mention that these experts are part of the modding scene still.)

 

Look at arguments and then decide what is more important for you. Then add the EE vs. old game arguments you find reasonable to the evaluation.

 

PS - do not listen too much to other people's opinions, try to stick to arguments that are important for you.


Edited by Roxanne, 02 March 2017 - 01:24 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#3 Roxanne

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 03:48 AM

Excellent summary, from my point of view I will also add that EE editions also have:

- better GUI

- ability to change GUI if you don't like

- fullscreen worldmap (original map/EET map/huge map from BP-BG-Worldmap)

- zero waiting time when you save the game (SSD Hard Drive)

 

From the mod which you posted, only SoS and NeJ are not available currently for EE.

I intetionally left out those engine features.

 

And NeJ never will be for EET. But that is neither pro nor con for either game.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#4 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 02 March 2017 - 12:34 PM

Much obliged :)

 

I've only played vanilla before (started back when they were still new) so I think I'll try to see what it looks like on the other side of the fence.

 

Thanks for your input.



#5 Vlad

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:39 AM

I have arguments against almost each of the above points, but I'll comment only on one:

 

 

- EET provides full continuity of the game, i.e. a single worldmap on which you can move freely to all explored areas from any part of the game. NPCs keep their stats/abilities etc through the game, i.e.an NPC you developped during BG1 will not be replaced by a BG2 doppelganger but be the same character. Chapters and journal entries are continued.

 

The same is with BGT or am I playing the different BGT game?  ;)



#6 quinlan

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:27 AM

No, it's not the same, using BGT you cannot go back to BG1 areas and do unfinished quest when you start BG2 camping, you cannot go to Nashkel Mines from ToB camping and face new, powerful enemy group which occupied it during the time when you were doing BG2.

 

Really? You can do all of the above???

 

I have a new dream now. In the future, EET plus all the mods from BGT, plus SoD and whatever new expansion after it, in one smooth game, no walkthrough, just start with a 1st level character and let the game and your responses lead wherever they may...


My fantasy story

 

"Man, in his discussions with other men about questions of religion, statecraft, geography, trade, has always reached a point in the discussion where it has seemed wise to reply to his opponent by disemboweling him or knocking his brains out."

 

My name is Thomas Hockenberry, Ph.D., and I think the "Ph.D." stands for "Pouring His Draft."

 

"The study of modern science today is being done by the brain of primitive man."


#7 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:29 AM

No, it's not the same, using BGT you cannot go back to BG1 areas and do unfinished quest when you start BG2 camping, you cannot go to Nashkel Mines from ToB camping and face new, powerful enemy group which occupied it during the time when you were doing BG2. Let me just find proper EET Readme for you ...

 

P.S. I would love to hear any counter argument which will not ignore reality, facts and is not "i don't use this feature/i don't like this" :shifty:  

@Alien. it makes little sense to argue with people about mods and games which they have not even played (nor ever will).

I have written my statements based on a profound knowledge of both installations


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#8 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 02:31 AM

No, it's not the same, using BGT you cannot go back to BG1 areas and do unfinished quest when you start BG2 camping, you cannot go to Nashkel Mines from ToB camping and face new, powerful enemy group which occupied it during the time when you were doing BG2.

 

Really? You can do all of the above???

 

I have a new dream now. In the future, EET plus all the mods from BGT, plus SoD and whatever new expansion after it, in one smooth game, no walkthrough, just start with a 1st level character and let the game and your responses lead wherever they may...

I had the same dream - and I made it come true...the rest is in my signature below.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#9 The Imp

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 03:18 AM

I had the same dream - and I made it come true...the rest is in my signature below.
There's a difference between "same" and "similar", and yours definitely fell on the similar, not same. As you enforce the things with your own created NPC, instead of "ah, nice they let me through this way as well without the mountain of idiots I normally need." And I am not talking about meat-shields, but NPCs.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#10 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 03:42 AM

I had the same dream - and I made it come true...the rest is in my signature below.
There's a difference between "same" and "similar", and yours definitely fell on the similar, not same. As you enforce the things with your own created NPC, instead of "ah, nice they let me through this way as well without the mountain of idiots I normally need." And I am not talking about meat-shields, but NPCs.

Yes, right.

Forgot to mention that there is a plot and actors and all such idiocy - not just revisiting areas and see what new monsters spawned out of the ground...RPG?

Seems like there are always strings attached to all you dream of.


Edited by Roxanne, 03 March 2017 - 03:43 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#11 -K4thos-

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 04:39 AM

I have arguments against almost each of the above points, but I'll comment only on one:

 

- EET provides full continuity of the game, i.e. a single worldmap on which you can move freely to all explored areas from any part of the game. NPCs keep their stats/abilities etc through the game, i.e.an NPC you developped during BG1 will not be replaced by a BG2 doppelganger but be the same character. Chapters and journal entries are continued.

 

The same is with BGT or am I playing the different BGT game?  ;)

here are differences between BGT and EET when it comes to this single quote, one by one:

 

EET provides full continuity of the game, i.e. a single worldmap on which you can move freely to all explored areas from any part of the game

in EET access to old areas is not blocked when you finish the campaign. Also ToB uses the same worldmap which is not the case in BGT. The aim here is to merge the games in way that moving from campaign to campaign is not really in any way different from the player perspective than progressing from chapter to chapter. In BGT campaigns are entirely separated from one another. And ToB takes place in separate worldmap (notice that even if you install BP-BGT Worldmap in BGT that will be still WORLDM25, not the WORLDMAP.WMP)

 

NPCs keep their stats/abilities etc through the game, i.e.an NPC you developped during BG1 will not be replaced by a BG2 doppelganger but be the same character

the difference in EET is that you don't need to have NPC in your end party in order to migrate him/her to BG1. There are some other minor differences. More information  is availabe here.

 

Chapters and journal entries are continued

In BGT all BG1 journal entries are erased after BG1 portion of the game and chapters starts once again from chapter 1. This is not the case in EET (there are 22 continous chapters and single journal that )



#12 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 04:53 AM

I had the same dream - and I made it come true...the rest is in my signature below.
There's a difference between "same" and "similar", and yours definitely fell on the similar, not same. As you enforce the things with your own created NPC, instead of "ah, nice they let me through this way as well without the mountain of idiots I normally need." And I am not talking about meat-shields, but NPCs.

Yes, right.

Forgot to mention that there is a plot and actors and all such idiocy - not just revisiting areas and see what new monsters spawned out of the ground...RPG?

Seems like there are always strings attached to all you dream of.

 

Your mod does sound interesting and I heavily decided for and against it. I ultimately decided against it due to it being reliant on some (according to BWS installer) alpha/beta mods that are still not up to par and would most likely introduce problems during my play-through

 

Perhaps I'll give it a shot in a year or 2 when the reliant mods are more developed :)



#13 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 05:23 AM

I had the same dream - and I made it come true...the rest is in my signature below.
There's a difference between "same" and "similar", and yours definitely fell on the similar, not same. As you enforce the things with your own created NPC, instead of "ah, nice they let me through this way as well without the mountain of idiots I normally need." And I am not talking about meat-shields, but NPCs.

Yes, right.

Forgot to mention that there is a plot and actors and all such idiocy - not just revisiting areas and see what new monsters spawned out of the ground...RPG?

Seems like there are always strings attached to all you dream of.

 

Your mod does sound interesting and I heavily decided for and against it. I ultimately decided against it due to it being reliant on some (according to BWS installer) alpha/beta mods that are still not up to par and would most likely introduce problems during my play-through

 

Perhaps I'll give it a shot in a year or 2 when the reliant mods are more developed :)

I was not trying to make advertisements or convince someone of something.

 

The purpose of this thread was to gain an overview of what is available in which form and in which game.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#14 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:40 AM

The Sandrah mod

being reliant on some (according to BWS installer) alpha/beta mods that are still not up to par

 

Do you by any chance still remember which mods that were? I would like to check if this information is still up-to-date since I have tested many EET mods now several times and provided input to BWFixpack or the modmakers when I found issues.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#15 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:48 AM

If I remember correctly it's the following:

 

1: NtotSC for EET Interim Version (something about being completely unsupported)

2: TDD (which according to forum posts is still hit and miss with the needed TDDz component)

 

those 2 I omitted in my install due to wanting a (fairly) bug-free install.

 

IF they are deemed to be up to par, would there be any problems updating my current install (ie. run the BWS installer again and add those 2 addons and the Sandrah mod)? or would I have to start all over again?



#16 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:56 AM

IF they are deemed to be up to par, would there be any problems updating my current install (ie. run the BWS installer again and add those 2 addons and the Sandrah mod)? or would I have to start all over again?

 

This is BG BWS modding, you have to always start all over again. Please read BWS FAQ: https://forums.beamd...#Comment_683339 and if you still have question, we could clarify them.

 

Thanks for the quick reply :) It's been some years since I last played and modded BG so had hoped this would have been possible by now :)



#17 Roxanne

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 09:57 AM

If I remember correctly it's the following:

 

1: NtotSC for EET Interim Version (something about being completely unsupported)

2: TDD (which according to forum posts is still hit and miss with the needed TDDz component)

 

those 2 I omitted in my install due to wanting a (fairly) bug-free install.

 

IF they are deemed to be up to par, would there be any problems updating my current install (ie. run the BWS installer again and add those 2 addons and the Sandrah mod)? or would I have to start all over again?

 

Thank you.

I asked only for information in order to support the further EET development. No intend to influence your decision in any way. (Sandrah herself is still considered beta status in EET, so you should avoid her by all means,)


Edited by Roxanne, 03 March 2017 - 09:58 AM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#18 JUNKdeLUXE

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 10:00 AM

If I remember correctly it's the following:

 

1: NtotSC for EET Interim Version (something about being completely unsupported)

2: TDD (which according to forum posts is still hit and miss with the needed TDDz component)

 

those 2 I omitted in my install due to wanting a (fairly) bug-free install.

 

IF they are deemed to be up to par, would there be any problems updating my current install (ie. run the BWS installer again and add those 2 addons and the Sandrah mod)? or would I have to start all over again?

 

Thank you.

I asked only for information in order to support the further EET development. No intend to influence your decision in any way. (Sandrah herself is still considered beta status in EET, so you should avoid her by all means,)

 

I don't know why, but you come off as a bit protective. Why I don't know. 

The reason I added the Sandrah bit was because I read about your mod and it seems interesting and I would like to try it out :)


Edited by JUNKdeLUXE, 03 March 2017 - 10:08 AM.


#19 Vlad

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 12:32 PM

Well, I can visit the BG1 areas from BG2 without a problem. Maybe it's only my mods specific, and this has never been implemented in BGT, but at least it's possible. I thought it's already in BGT anyway. The only problem that I have not solved then is the travelling time between BG2 and BG1 areas. It's always the same time, no matter from which area you travel.


Edited by Vlad, 03 March 2017 - 12:33 PM.


#20 Creepin

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Posted 03 March 2017 - 01:58 PM

Well, I can visit the BG1 areas from BG2 without a problem. Maybe it's only my mods specific, and this has never been implemented in BGT, but at least it's possible. I thought it's already in BGT anyway. The only problem that I have not solved then is the travelling time between BG2 and BG1 areas. It's always the same time, no matter from which area you travel.

Umm, Vlad, do you think you could release this as a separate minimod? :rolleyes:  Jarno was planning to do that in about 2014 (you were in that thread too), but sadly that never happened, so I'm waiting for my chance to legally travel back to Beregost from Amn ever since. :unsure:


Edited by Creepin, 03 March 2017 - 01:58 PM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)