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3.5 Edition/ Pathfinder style Tweaks Collection (thac0, Constitution,

Tweaks Baldurs Gate Icewind Dale thac0 Constitution Hit Dice HP 3rd Edition Pathfinder

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#1 Reddbane

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 10:45 AM

This thread will host a collection of mods based on some my personal tweaks I tend to make to my playthroughs of IE games, based on some changes that were made to Dungeons and Dragons System after 2nd edition, specifically 3.5 and Pathfinder, my two personal favorite iterations of the system.

 

Here are the planned components:

1.      Thac0 progression based on 3.5 BAB Progression (Finished)

2.      Full Constitution bonuses (17+) for all Classes (Finished)

3.      Pathfinder style (ie higher) hit dice for Rogue and Arcane classes (Finished Except for IWDEE [see below])

(a small note: this is my first weidu mod—in the past I merely modded my own game using nearinfinity—and I’m using this to slowly teach myself higher level modding and weidu.)

 

1 – 3.5 thac0

 

I had discussed this topic in depth in an earlier thread several months ago.

 

The short of it is that 3.5 streamlined attack progression for non-warriors, as well as significantly buffing the attacks of Thieves and Bards, and slightly buffing the attacks of mages.  3.5 (and later Pathfinder, which is based on 3.5) sorted attack progression into three easy to follow groups High, Medium, and Low, all of which is based upon the hit dice of the class.  High is essentially the same as Warrior thac0 progression, with 1 BAB (base attack bonus) for each hit dice or level of the class.  Medium is somewhat similar to Priest Thac0, but less janky, no longer suddenly increasing by 2 every three levels, but instead equaling ¾ of your hit dice (rounded down) only increasing by 1 at certain levels and capping at 15 BAB at level 20.  Another major difference is that Priest and Rogues use the same attack progression, and the old thief attack progression of one ever other level (essentially ½ of hit dice) is called low and reserved on for non-brawling classes such as the Wizard.  What my mod does is to alter thac0 progression to match the smoother and more balanced 3.5 attack balance, with 20 BAB essentially equaling 0 thac0.  Warrior thac0 remained unchanged, but now Thief and Priests reduce their thac0 based upon ¾ of their level gained after level 1, and caps at 5 thac0 (rather than 6 or 8 per P&P) at level 21.

Thus Priests and Rogues thac0 can be calculated at any time based on the equation:

20 - [(Level - 1) X 0.75] = Thac0 rounded up

And now Mages and Sorcerers use the old Rogue progression of 1 thac0 every two levels, capping at 10 (rather than 13) at level 21.

For quick player reference: Attached File  3e Style Thac0 Progression.pdf   23.61K   5 downloads

 

For the most part Warriors and Mages remain the same gameplay wise, but now single class thieves are much more useful in melee, as they are in 3.5, and don’t become underpowered at higher levels, and Assassins backstab it much more likely to hit once you get to the endgame and they get their extra multipliers.

 

The mod changes very little, only a single file, and is compatible with any mod that does not alter the thac0 table (thus no un-nerfed thac0 table) and should generally be installed after other major tweaks, especially those that extend levels to 50, since those replace the thac0 table.  (My thac0 already goes to 50 so there should be no problems)

My table also includes an entry for Shaman (using the new priest progression), so it is compatible with 2.0 and SOD, but still works with older versions of BGEE 1&2 as well as Icewind Dale EE.

 

2 – Universal Constitution Bonus, Full HP Bonus for all classes

 

In 2nd Edition, and thus Vanilla Baldur’s Gate and Icewind Dale, only Warriors (Fighters, Rangers, Paladins) gain extra HP for a Constitution score above 16.  Thus, barring shorty races, non-warriors (Mages, Priests, Rogues) received almost no benefit for a Con score above 16, and thus a 19 Con Orc Thief was no hardier than a 16 Con Elf thief.  One of the changes made in 3rd edition was to make so that physical ability scores did not discriminate between classes, thus a High Constitution score was good for any class.  This mod merely makes it so that all classes receives the same bonuses for 17+ Constitution scores. 

 

All I had to do was make the non-warrior and warrior tables identical in the HPCON.2da; it was so simple I’m surprised no one did it before.  Like the thac0 mod, this mod changes only one file, and thus is compatible with any mod that does not change the files determining the bonuses of Constitution (HPCON.2da), but to be safe you should probably install it after any other major tweak mods.

As above it is compatible with 2.0 and SOD, but still works with older versions of BGEE 1&2 as well as Icewind Dale EE.

 

3 – Pathfinder Hit Dice

 

This mod is for people who prefer the changes Pathfinder made to the Hit Dice of Certain classes.  For those who don’t know Rogues and Bards in PF use d8 like priests, and Mages and Sorcerers now use the d6, which thieves used to use.  The way this is implemented in this mod that Thieves and Bards now have a Hit Dice the same as Priests, d8 for the first 9 levels, and +2 for every level afterwards.  Mages and Sorcerers now use d6 for the first 10 levels and +1 afterwards, while the Dragon Disciple uses d8 (combined with Universal Constitution DD get a lot of health, so perhaps be cautious about combing the mods if you think that breaks the Kit).  I’ve also readjusted all the appropriate class multi combos so their Hit Dice reflect the altered classes: for example, a Fighter Thief now has a d9 (half of d10 + half of d8) and a Mage Thief now has a d7 (half d8 + half d6).  If you want to check my math I’ve included a record of all the Hit Die changes: Attached File  HPdice New.pdf   19.29K   5 downloads  The mod also alters the class descriptions, but is still compatible with mods that also alter class descriptions (such as Rogue Rebalancing), so long as the leave the phrase “Hit Die: dx” in the description.  Currently this mod is compatible with BGEE, SOD, BG2EE, and partially with IWDEE: in Icewind all the gameplay changes function, but currently the Character Creation Class Descriptions remains the same (working to fix this).

 

The mod is divided into two parts: “Pathfinder Hit Dice” installs all the gameplay files, and “Patch Class Descriptions” which changes the class descriptions.  You can just install the first part if you are worried about a dialog.tlk conflict.

 

“Pathfinder Hit Dice” gives you three options based on what Hit Roll tweaks you may have made.

1. “Normal Rolls” is for the vanilla game and any game where you have not modded the manner in which HP is granted.  (You get normal rolls with the altered Hit Dice)

2. “Average Rolls” is if you have the “Higher HP on Level Up: Average Rolls” component of Tweaks Anthology installed.  (You are granted the Average roll of the altered Hit Dice)

3. “Maximum Rolls” is if you have the “Higher HP on Level Up: Maximum Rolls” component of Tweaks Anthology installed.  (You are granted the Maximum roll of the altered Hit Dice)


Edited by Reddbane, 20 March 2017 - 04:44 PM.


#2 The Imp

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 01:12 PM

1... you do understand that this makes the warrior classes less valuable than the rest in comparison ?
And the stop cap is not an OK solution either.
You have 50 levels, so why not allow the mages eventually hop on to the zero thac0 boat too ... say near level 50 or so.
Yeah, the 3.5 rules... that's not actually a good comparison, as this is a RTS game, not a turn based one, like the 3.5ed ruleset is. Why is it an RTS ? Well, I'll tell you, it's that caused the game time unites run between the frames and so forth, just like in Starcraft, Warcraft etc. Not in this ridiculous Turns the Pathfinder and 2ed etc talk about. Which is why there's no attacks of opportunity and other cheese that make the warrior classes shine more in the higher editions, which is why the casters can be buffed in them.

Edited by The Imp, 16 March 2017 - 01:14 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#3 Reddbane

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Posted 16 March 2017 - 03:27 PM

1... you do understand that this makes the warrior classes less valuable than the rest in comparison ?
And the stop cap is not an OK solution either.
You have 50 levels, so why not allow the mages eventually hop on to the zero thac0 boat too ... say near level 50 or so.
Yeah, the 3.5 rules... that's not actually a good comparison, as this is a RTS game, not a turn based one, like the 3.5ed ruleset is. Why is it an RTS ? Well, I'll tell you, it's that caused the game time unites run between the frames and so forth, just like in Starcraft, Warcraft etc. Not in this ridiculous Turns the Pathfinder and 2ed etc talk about. Which is why there's no attacks of opportunity and other cheese that make the warrior classes shine more in the higher editions, which is why the casters can be buffed in them.

 

It's just a preference. There are some people who prefer 3e onward.

 

Warriors still get their Specialization and Grand mastery bonuses (not to mention a possible Strength percentile bonus), which, depending on the game version, can add up to 3 thac0, 5 damage, and a full extra attack, plus the extra attack they get by level 13 means they can, without special items get up to 4 attacks per round, which is what really makes them powerful.  As you will note clerics already had a similar thac0 progression, ending up at 6 at level 22.  But what separates them from warriors is their lack of weapon and style specialization and extra attacks, so that at the most they can only reliably get one attack per round without spell aid.  The mod mainly makes it so that rouges now function similar in combat prowess, with a medium style progression so they can effectively use their backstab at higher levels.  Those familiar with the BG metagame will know players rarely play as pure thieves because of their thac0 problems, especially during late game, to the point where there is usually no reason to prefer a Pure thief vs a Dualed fighter or some multi-combination.

 

All this is beside the point because I’m merely offering another option to players.  Tweak Anthology already has a number of component that make similar tweaks, like un-nerfed thac0 and maximum or nwn style hit dice.  This is merely a series of tweaks aimed at players who have a preference for certain aspects of 3.5 or Pathfinder.



#4 Reddbane

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 11:34 AM

Does anyone know where the Character Creation Class description String is referenced in the game files in BG1 and Icewind Dale?  CLASTEXT.2da contains the string for the in game description in the fourth column "DESCSTR" (and BG2 this is used for both character creation and in game text) but the second string I can't find referenced in any of the 2da files, for example in BG1 the Character Creation string for the Mage is 9563, but I can't find where it is listed so I can set up the Weidu to search the relevant areas.



#5 The Imp

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Posted 20 March 2017 - 12:28 PM

Weidu search... I would use Near Infinity for text searches. Not that that might help you to find much what you are searching probably for..
Warriors still get their Specialization and Grand mastery bonuses (not to mention a possible Strength percentile bonus), which, depending on the game version, can add up to 3 thac0, 5 damage, and a full extra attack, plus the extra attack they get by level 13 means they can,...
Yeah, well if we considering the Grand Mastery tweak, you are talking about modified game and if we fall back on that, then the hello, even the Mages can get Grand Mastery and the proficiency bonuses Attacks per round bonuses with a few mods, you might not have heard of, but they are in the community.
The first mod uses scripting that made it possible through hitting the enemy enough many times with a type of weapon to gain proficiency in them. The other mod uses the ToBEx to archive the attack speeds for everyone.

Edited by The Imp, 20 March 2017 - 02:09 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.




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Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: Tweaks, Baldurs Gate, Icewind Dale, thac0, Constitution, Hit Dice, HP, 3rd Edition, Pathfinder