121 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Mates, during the Time of Troubles, gods were forced to walk the earth as mere mortals. I have 3 questions about that :
1. What kind of mortals ? I asked this because Bhaal's Avatar, the Slayer, it's a kind of demon. Did he walk the earth in that form ?
2. The gods took only a mortal form during the Time of Troubles, retaining their powers, or did they lose all their god powers ?
3. How some gods could have been killed during Time of Troubles if they were immortals ? That's a contradiction in terms...

[Kish]

Mates, during the Time of Troubles, gods were forced to walk the earth as mere mortals. I have 3 questions about that :
1. What kind of mortals ? I asked this because Bhaal's Avatar, the Slayer, it's a kind of demon. Did he walk the earth in that form ?

Most of them were forced to take over human or demi-human host bodies. Bhaal used several host bodies, but none of them resembled the Slayer.

  2. The gods took only a mortal form during the Time of Troubles, retaining their powers, or did they lose all their god powers ?

Much of their power was locked away in their home planes, so that they became truly mortal, not gods, but still very powerful mortals. That's the answer to your third question, too.

[Cyric]

I think they could take whatever form they decided and could also possess mortals. For example Mask took the form of the sword Godsbane, Mystra and Bane possessed the body of a mortal.

Bhaal had the form of a human if I remember correctly.

3. Simple answer: Ao limited their power


I recommend the Avatar Trilogy by Richard Awlinson for reading

[Ziggy]

I never understood the time of troubles, did bhaal impregnate all the people during thetime of troubles? and if so that was only 20 years ago or something, wouldnt loads of people know about it?

[NiGHTMARE]

1. They arrived as pure divine energy, capable of casting magic, etc. However, in order to do much more than that, they had to possess a host. Normally this was a living being, but in some cases (e.g. Mask, as mentioned above) they took a different form of host.

2. They retained only as much power as their mortal shells could contain. So demipowers would have had much closer to their normal amount of powers than greater powers.

3. Gods in the D&Dverse are only immortal in the sense that they will never die by natural causes. Death by violence, magic, etc is another matter. However, dead gods are taken to the astral plane where they become huge, inanimate floating objects. Unless you travel to the astral plane, find the deity's body and somehow permanently destroy it, it's entirely possible that they deity could be resurrected in the future.


Clearly Bhaal went around impregnating women before the Time of Troubles, since during the ToT he didn't 1) have access to enough of his divine essence to create as many spawn as he did, 2) he was too busy looking for the tablets of fate, and 3) he has an adult dragon as a grandson! (dragons taking at least 100 years to reach adulthood)

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 15 June 2004 - 10:00 AM.

[Ziggy]

Now i'm immensly confused, he has the kids before the time of troubles? so then they're growing up during it? and how long was it? also why are some of the spawn older than others? Alot of questions, but in so confused.

[NiGHTMARE]

What's to be confused about? Gods can hand out bits of their divine essence whenever they feel like it (e.g. Baneliches, liches who possess some of Bane's essence), and can also have mortal children (the Seven Sisters being living proof).

They do have *lots* of divine essence after all, most of which they didn't even have access to during the ToT. For example, during the ToT Mystra retrieved some essence she placed in the realms before she was banished there, thus becoming more powerful than she was supposed to be.

The ToT lasted only a few months. During that time, Bhaal was a bit too busy murdering people to impregnate them .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 15 June 2004 - 10:48 AM.

[BobTokyo]

Now i'm immensly confused, he has the kids before the time of troubles? so then they're growing up during it? and how long was it? also why are some of the spawn older than others? Alot of questions, but in so confused.

The Bioware storyline is not official in the FR setting, and was changed many times as BG1 was being put together, changed again in SoA, then changed almost completely in ToB. Bhaal knew that he was going to die, and so planted his seeds long enough ahead of time that a new incarnation would be available when he needed it. Presumeably he didn't know exactly how, and only roughly when. Many of the spawn were alive during the time of troubles, but may not have known what they were.

I'm not sure how long the ToT lasted; I think that Bioware got the dates wrong in a few places.

[Consis]

Fascinating, really it is. Why the hell am I so drawn to such lengthy algorhythmic plots? I suppose I shall never know, neither shall my interest diminish in the future I see thus far.

I dare say I'm such a acolyte. I do enjoy reading the "good stuff". Perhaps it is a fantasy addiction in which I'm inexorably forced to satiate my unquenchable appetite.

Nice fix to say the least.

Please.....continue the discussion.........

[Ziggy]

Hahahaha stop inturupting then. Im now alot less confused, i found the story online.

Edited by Ziggy, 15 June 2004 - 11:27 AM.

[Ismail]

Another question that has been bugging me a lot is WHY did the Time of Troubles happen in the first place?

Also, how did the bhaalstuff worked out in the official, non-bioware version of FR?

[NiGHTMARE]

Bhaal, Bane and Myrkul stole the Tablets of Fate, three mystical artifacts belonging to supreme god Ao. Not sure if we've ever been told what they are, but they're powerful enough that even the gods aren't supposed to get their hands on them.

Anyway, this was just the catalyst in a long series of things that gods had been getting up to that were steadily pi**ing Ao off. As punishment, he removed much of their power and banished them all to the surface of Aber-Toril until they recovered the tablets.

He was intending them to work together to retrieve the tablets, but of course they continued their old ways, fighting each other to be the first to retrieve the tablets. In the end the tablets were returned by a group of mortals - Adon, Cyric, Kelemvor and Midnight. The latter three of these were promoted to deities as a reward (though not until some time later in the case of Kelemvor).

Some of the Bhaalspawn stuff is canon, but only that which appears in the novels. If you look on the official FR timeline, you'll see they make an appearance.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 15 June 2004 - 11:49 AM.

[Cyric]

The Tablets of Fate contained the portfolio and obligations of all gods and were created by Ao himself as he forged his plane.

Kelemvor became a god years after ToT when he actually freed Te Citty of Dead from Cyric's ruleship.

[Ziggy]

So why wasn't Adon deified?

[Cyric]

Adon was a cleric of Sune but he lost his faith. He then became a high cleric and the chosen of Mystra (Midnight).
In the book he was...well unimportant

"It's Midnight's symbol," Adon replied. "And I swear by its light and the name of Lady Midnight that I'll gather a host of worshipers to honor it!"

Edited by Cyric, 15 June 2004 - 12:11 PM.

[Ziggy]

So he ends up worshipping one of the people he find the things with in the first place, sounds like a bit of a loser.

[Kish]

In the Avatar Trilogy, just two of the characters were deified--Midnight because she's the main character, and Cyric because he's the main villain. Kelemvor is dead at the end of the Avatar Trilogy, so he's much more of a loser, until a later novel (Prince of Lies) has his spirit become a god.

[Cyric]

book spoilers


Cyric:
"You desired godhood, control over your destiny, and great power," Ao said. "You will have only two of these - godhood and power - to exercise as you will in the Realm of the Dead. And all of the suffering in Toril will be yours as well, to cause and inflict as you wish. But you will never know contentment or happiness again."
Ao paused then and looked at Midnight. "But the thing you have desired most, Lord Cyric, will never come to pass. I am your master now. You serve me... and your worshipers. I believe you will find that you now have less freedom than you had as a child in the alleys of Zhentil Keep."

Midnight:
"You have something that has no place in the Realms," Ao said, pointing a long finger at her.
She immediately knew he meant Mystra's power. "Take it. I have no further use for it."
"Perhaps you do," Ao responded.
"I am too weary for riddles," she snapped.
"I have lost many gods during this crisis," Ao said. "As punishment for their theft, I will leave Bane and Myrkul dispersed. But Mystra, Lady of Mysteries and grantor of magic, is also gone. Even I cannot restore her. Will you take her place?"

[NiGHTMARE]

"I have lost many gods during this crisis," Ao said. "As punishment for their theft, I will leave Bane and Myrkul dispersed."

Interesting that he makes no mention of Bhaal...