The Outlaw Torn

Damn... from the title of the thread, I thought you were talking about me

Oh yeah, I said it... hehe

ahem

I second this motion . Everything looks incredibly spiffy, I cannot wait for this mod's release

That's fair, I guess, but it doesn't seem like this whole DEX 25 issue is one that has much to debate on it.  I'm just curious, I don't mean to harass you, but what justification do you have for her dex being that insanely high, given the arguments made so far?

Lucy, just curious, why do you not want feedback about your mod?  It would seem to me that if you went to all the trouble of making a mod, went through all of the hours to get it made and put it out, you'd want to make sure that you had the best product possible.  Doesn't ignoring people's opinions about your mod invalidate the reason for releasing it publicly in the first place?

Yeah man, seeing it get into a mod would be enough for me... just as long as both myself and Mason Reed get credited for the idea

Everyone else, I'll respond when I have a bit more time.  Very interesting discussions though!

Damn!  I didn't see its truncation...

Cont'd:

Minotaur?s Statue (with the two missing horns) ?

Instead of being confronted by Bodhi, the party can be confronted by the new leader of the guild, Cohn or whoever.  The only change should be an added ?you traitor!? line of dialogue, and a changed feel of the dialogue (less feminine, obviously).  

Power of the Slayer dream ?

Incarnation of Bhaal replaces Imoen if you took that path in the Transformation dream.

Challenging Irenicus ?

More evil dialogue and reactions to Bodhi, from Irenicus.
-And this is certainly where she'd double-cross the PC, if she hasn't already.

Getting a ship in Brynnlaw ?

Ability to take the more direct path of threatening Saemon into captaining a ship you kill the guards of.  

Saguagin City ?

Evil path is pretty easy; kill everyone .

Underdark:

When the party enters the Underdark, there should be a talk initiated by Bodhi, if she is in the party, where she explains what?s going on, i.e. Irenicus?s plans.  

Duergar Encampment ?

There should be slightly different dialogue options if Bodhi is in the party.  This applies to quite a few conversations though.  They do however mention that Irenicus and Bodhi went through the underdark, which obviously didn?t happen if Bodhi is in your party.

Svirfneblin ?

A nice touch for the evil would be the option to kill Therndle?s son and give him the body.

Balor & Pit ?

Talk to it and offer it the Svirfneblin village to win its favour.  Do so and it rewards you with a wand of summon (demon x).  Otherwise, proceed as normal.  Either way, the party gets the Light Gem and can go to Adalon.

Adalon ?

All that is needed here is more evil options in the dialogue.  I mention it because there need to be some really cool evil lines there .

Ust Natha:

None of the drow plots need changing, beyond minor dialogue options.

The Aboleth ?

There should be an option to have something happen to the Aboleth once the PC gains power in Ust Natha.  Kill it or torture it or dehydrate it or something.  Mwuahahaha.

Dragon Egg ?

An evil option here is already available, that being telling Matron Ardulace of Phaere?s treachery.  However, in order to have further progression with the drow, the PC needs to be added to tell the Matron Mother of your true identity before the ritual starts.  Her reaction should be surprised, of course, but she should also sense your potential and be satisfied of your loyalty? providing that you go kill Phaere.  Probably not a problem.

I think the Improved Drow part of the mod will be the biggest and hardest to make part of the mod, so I?ll leave that out for now.  I have several ideas for that though? but now isn?t the time .

Leaving the underdark is dependant on how things go within it, but it?s safe to assume that either the party will be killing the surface elves with the aid of several drow, or killing some drow and being very evil around the surface elves.  Details, details
-One nice touch would be to play along with the gag until you're in Suldanesselar and Elhan has dispatched his troops throughout the city.  Then tell him, "OK, you hysterical twit.  You've seen this place again, so you have nothing more to live for.  Good-bye!"  And leave him decomposing on the platform.

Alternative allies against Bodhi:
1) Twisted Rune and associates
2) Fallen Paladins and associates
3) Drow

Twisted Rune could send a semi-lich (ha ha ), an ensorcelled undead hunter, or something similar.
Fallen Paladins send, obviously, fallen paladins
Drow could send fighter/mages, drider (although they would be a bitch to put in the game, considering that they?d need brand new avatars), or clerics

Vamps ?

Dialogue changes if Bodhi?s in party, new leader of guild (Valen or Cohn are the most probable ones), and a changed final fight.  Although the new leader shouldn?t be nearly as powerful as Big B, they should have some, ?Ha ha!  Didn?t expect this did you?? dialogue as they trap/otherwise incapaciate Bodhi for the duration of the fight.  That way she?s out of the picture, levelling the fight a little, and the party can now use Sunray without consequence.  The new leader can also have new vamp helpers, or skeletons, or something.  Any loved ones could be restored with the new leader?s heart instead of Bodhi?s.

Suldanessallar:

Again, the attack on Suldanessallar will depend on how the situation in the Underdark is resolved.  Currently I have no ideas as to what an evil party working with the surface elves would do here.

Once downstairs, the party should find Ellesime, scared and fearful of them.  The party can coerce the truth of what is happening from her, then kill the parasites as normal.  The dialogue in the fight with Irenicus should have some evil options available, of course.  

Hell:

No changes, that I can see.

End scene should be modified if drow attacked.

(from Fluke)
The following are a few ideas of mine for potential refinements to the Ust?Natha experience:

The study of torture devices and techniques.  Hardly new ground by this point in the thread, but the fact does remain that Drow's cruelty and perversion is the stuff of nightmares on the surface, so it could prove enlightening nonetheless.  I personally wouldn?t mind seeing a chamber or two set aside for this purpose in the basement of the tavern.  There?s also those students and their pet Djinn to consider, I suppose, though I?d much rather have a subject to myself than share one with a clutch of bumbling neophytes.

Vivisection.  There are all sorts of bizarre creatures teeming throughout the Underdark, and it seems fairly likely that these beings would be a common focus of drow research.  Less exotic subjects, on the other hand, could serve as a testing ground for pathogens and spell effects.  Among the more constructive aspects of this could be an increased knowledge of the intricacies of the Illithid nervous/immune system? Obviously this should not yield any groundbreaking revelations or benefits, but perhaps it could prove handy in some small way during your capture within the Illithid city.

Poisons/alchemy/narcotics.  Unfortunately, I?m at a loss as to where this could be explored, aside from a few tidbits being mentioned here and there by the alchemist in the market.  Naturally, assassins in particular should stand to benefit from such research, perhaps gaining the ability to brew more virulent toxins.  Extra damage is probably a bad idea, but a small chance of added effects such as blindness or confusion could be interesting.  There are obviously less opportunities for narcotics given the brevity of this sequence and the urgency of finding and confronting Irenicus immediately after, but if the Shadow Thieves remain intact as an organization there might be the possibility of netting a fair profit from their distribution along the Surface.  Helping the drow establish such a foothold on the surface could in fact be one of the terms of the alliance.

Ritual and theology.  While at a glance, this seems to be little more than a branch of the torture study mentioned above, it could also be instructive in its insights upon the dynamics of blood sacrifice and fanatical rhetoric.  Sending the slaves to the temple for sacrifice is an obvious opening for this, though perhaps a bit late in the sequence, the idea of delivering one of the surviving heretics that you are enlisted to quell strikes me as more promising.

Study of combat and tactics.  This would mostly be achieved through spars and training in the Fighter?s House, though perhaps a quick lesson or two from the gladiator pits in the bar as well.  If the Protagonist has approached this intensively enough, they could develop a fair measure of insight into Solaufein?s capacity as a warrior and his weaknesses in general, perhaps even enabling them to assassinate him through more treacherous means.

Slaves.  As it stands, engaging in a slave hunt is an option, albeit one that suffers from the prompt disappearance of the quarry.  Expanding upon this in various ways might be worthwhile.  For instance, tying into my idea of a rival group below, one could first smuggle weapons to the prisoners or endeavor for them to come across some in the midst of the hunt, and then attempt to goad members of the other group to launch into the fray.  If properly orchestrated, it could not only result in death or grievous injury for the rivals, but in the stigma of being bested by their own mewling quarry as you ?heroically? step in to save them from the slaves.  Less elaborate accidents could also be arranged during the hunt, if you abused the slaves too cruelly beforehand to gain their trust for such an undertaking to commence.  This of course would require an extended interaction with the slave population, as well as another scheduled hunt.

Betting on the fights.  This would be an opportunity to put one?s recently purchased beasts to use, or to simply place bets on fighters outside of your group.  In either case, as you become more successful in this endeavor there should be the opportunity to hedge one?s bets and to elude the sabotage of the other gamblers.  If one?s beast proves particularly successful in its bouts, perhaps you could sell it off afterward at a sum that is markedly increased from that which you paid for it.  Given the time frame involved, and the character?s predicament, this might work better for expanded Copper Coronet fight wagers that this idea is clearly patterned off of.

Bringing slaves back to the city, and interrogation.  Two opportunities immediately spring to mind: the drow hunters outside of Ust?Natha, and the Illithid slaves.  In the case of the former, it wouldn?t surprise me if House Despana and the residents of Ust?Natha in general were interested in what these people were doing wandering about in the depths of the Underdark, not to mention how they found their city in the first place.  They could of course be random adventurers with reliable Underdark lore and a grudge against drow, but then again it seems particularly foolhardy, even for random adventurers, to squat around an area of the Underdark in which the Illithids, Beholders, and Kuoa-Toa are near at hand, and relatively active besides, simply to pick a fight with the inhabitants of a fortified Drow city that?s preparing for war.  As for the Illithid slaves, maybe it?s the avatars that are fooling, but they don?t look particularly healthy?  I don?t imagine that they?d have much use beyond serving as fresh sacrifices and fodder for the spiders, but there are a lot of them, so maybe that?ll make up for their overall worthlessness.  If the drow hunters were proving particularly intractable over the course of their questioning, this is possibility that suffering of these gangly new arrivals might loosen their lips a bit?

  Potential Complications:

A rival band?  Much as it sounds, House Despana has another drow party at its disposal and naturally they too are vying for the House?s favor.  To justify your admittance into the city and house Despana, I suppose they would have to make an appearance after the first few quests.  Arguments and sabotage between groups abound, and the animosity culminates either in a savage duel, or the disgrace and enslavement of the losing party if their rivals should achieve exceptional victories in their jockeying for position and status within the house, perhaps even resulting in the sacrifice of the shamed group.
If the party really shines through, they might even invite one of your group?s female priests to drive the dagger home, which Lolth might object to, given the heathens you?re likely to have attracted at this point.  Disentangling one?s self from this could be an opportunity to enter into a relatively earnest partnership with House Despana, as well as a chance to sell out Viconia and gain Phaere in her place (her punishment for allowing potential invaders to insinuate themselves so deeply into their affairs).  Whether or not she?d be ?romanceable? in the physical sense would depend on how much the PC cares to humiliate her during her tenure with the group.  Being a drow, of course, she could be pushed too far? though on the other hand, one could conceivably hope to sway her with thoughts of the power and glory that a God in the making such as yourself will no doubt claim.

Unexplained remains?  This one is fairly simple, a band of Duergar or Svirfneblin might stumble across some sign of the deceased group whose guises you assume.  Naturally, you would have to find some way to cover up anything that might incriminate you at this point, and most likely convince them to place you within the reconnaissance party that they send out there to do so.
If you threw in with the Balor, this may even be intentional? his way of forcing you to perform yet more boons for him.  A likely manifestation of this might be an eventual confrontation with the Lesser Abyssal Lord that the Drow intend to summon? there?s no love lost between most demons, and very likely seething hatred in the case of two of such vaunted stature.  On the other hand, I like the idea of a less direct approach, especially since vanquishing a Tanar?ri on the Prime accomplishes so very little.  Perhaps the Balor wants the Abyssal Lord?s True Name, which you would have to extract from Ardulace or Phaere, or convince them to share it willingly with promises of what the Balor you serve can offer to their cause.  If your Lore and Charisma were high enough, perhaps you could get away with offering the Balor a flawed rendition, one that would summon him but fail to bind him, of the Abyssal Lord?s True Name as a token of your appreciation, or in conjunction with a bargain you may have arranged with the Abyssal Lord beforehand.

The slaughter of the svirfneblin community should probably attract some attention over the course of the Ust?Natha quests; the mission in which they require you to make an ?example? of this area has always struck me as absurd in light of its obvious desolation? I think a fitting alternative would be receiving orders to search for those responsible for the killings, though I?m not all that sure how far you can go with this.  The duergar would certainly be able to venture a theory as to the culprits, and there is the distant possibility of inhabitants that may have eluded you coming out of the woodwork.  If the search party is sent to inspect the ruins themselves, an added dimension to this quest could be preventing them from discovering the Balor, ensuring that they meet with him under relatively peaceful terms, or implicating him in the bloodbath to draw attention away from the out of place surfacers that the Duergar may have brought up.