44 replies to this topic

[Caedwyr]

Remember, there is the potion of explosions (or something very similar) which is thrown at a target. No reason something similar couldn't be created through herbalism. There's room for both things that will affect opponents, and others that will affect willing recipients.

[Hendryk]

Flame dust

A vial of enchanted dust which must be thrown at the target. If it misses, treat simply as a potion of explosion. If it hits, most target creatures suffer 1-2 hp of damage per second for one round. Target then saves at -2. If failed, target takes 1D4+1 hp of damage per second for second round. Third round, save at -4 or take 1D8+2 hp of damage per second. This bypasses any innate and/or magical fire resistance of less than 50%.

It's more usual use, however, would be against creatures with an affinity for fire. These take no damage but are forced to obey the druid for one round per level of the dust's creator. Creatures actually from the plane of fire (fire elementals, flaming skulls, men, etc.) get no save and are returned to their native plane at the expiration of the effect (in game terms, they die.) Creatures that merely have a strong affinity for fire (fire giants, red dragons) save at -2 to avoid. They are, however, stunned for one round; immediately if the save is made or for one round at the end of the effect.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Why not reanme that Fireflower Pollen Extract or somesuch?

[Baltrek]

Acorns of Petrification from Willow.

"Out of the way, peck!"

[Jinnai]

Pixie Sap

Made with the sparkling dust taken from pixies at the most active time for potency and mixed with the sap of a maplewood sapling this can restore anyone to beyond full health (110%), from unconsciousness and supress the affects of fatigue for the next 24 hours. However, the potency of such intoxicates the one who uses it and makes them more susceptable to suggestions (-1 wis) for the duration of the sap's power.

Portence Berry (aka Folly's Fruit)

Also known by the more common name, Folly's Fruit, Portence Berries are made by gathering the poisionous holly berries during the light of a full moon and bathing thm in the blood of a sacrifical boar these berries bring the the powers of heaven and hell. While the berry's juice flows through the persons body they wll become almost invincible (25 str, dex, con for 1 hour) however, the price for such power is just as burtal. Those consuming these berries will die (no save) after the berry's power runs its course.

[T.G.Maestro]

Good ideas there. After all, this seems something like I created for Assassins under the name Brew Poison (hmm, its strange that none of our testers happened to try out that one until now...).

Again, these are basically good ideas, but somehow, some of them seems to be out of the scope of a normal druidic kit. Somehow I get the impression to work on a Shaman kit in the future, with special skills in herbalism, curses, a strong connection to the spirit-world, etc. I get more and more tempted to implement this for v2 or more likely to v3.
I would support a basic Herbalism HLA for normal druids (and druid kits) however, with a few potions and herbs (there are several good bams in game for the different herbs) that have mostly beneficial effects, and are connected to Nature instead of undead and such.

For v2 of course.

[Jinnai]

Well a shaman kit would be interested...not as intersting as a wu-jin kit, but interesting enough i might haveto try something else other than a monk or wild-mage for my main char.

But if the ideas listed here seem too powerful then the player should be able to select what they want to some extent and maybe have a degree of potency. So there would be a chance of creating worse items, but also extrodianry items (well for the realms of non-magic atleast).

[Caedwyr]

Herbalism is a long standing 2nd edition druidic ability. I could quote the appropriate manual and whatnot, but the bottom line is that this has long been a non-weapon proficiency favoured by druids.

[Jinnai]

Herbalism is a long standing 2nd edition druidic ability. I could quote the appropriate manual and whatnot, but the bottom line is that this has long been a non-weapon proficiency favoured by druids.

But with the exception for tracking rangers, which is exactly a NWP, NWP aren't in BG series, which is a shame, but its a fact.

[Caedwyr]

Which is why I was suggesting to make this an improved version of the Herbalism skill that would be worthy of a HLA slot that can be chosen unlimited times .


About the various magical effects: why can't there be magical plants? Its common enough in fantasy and allows for certain herbal concoctions to have more than just the chemical effects.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The Palladium game Rifts has some stuff like this. Mystical Herbalism for both 'common' herbs and magic plants. The stuff made from the latter is far more powerful than most of the stuff from the former.

I also have a fairly old real life Herbal remedy book.

[T.G.Maestro]

I was suggesting to make this an improved version of the Herbalism skill that would be worthy of a HLA slot

If Herbalism for druids will be implemented, don't expect it to be more powerful than thieves Alchemy. The only main differences will be that this HLA would create mixtures AND a few beneficial herbs, and the player would be able to choose from a list of mixtures. Something like Brew Poison.

[Baltrek]

Sounds good, but ona side note, isn't racking the worst HLA in the game? I mean, whatr level one Ranger would not know how to track. I mean, a ranger can charm an animal, but cannot recognize the track it leaves? Druid, too for that matter.

They should definitely begin with this as an Innate. I would be a quick fix, and not overpowered at all, since no-one really uses it.

[T.G.Maestro]

They should definitely begin with this as an Innate

A wise idea, I'll conider it.

[T.G.Maestro]

Lets continue the discussion of Herbalism in this thread.
I already finished the main part of the ability, but I'd like to ask a few questions. Currently this ability assumes the druid to be collecting all kinds of rare or magical herbs and goodies as you travel. This means there will be no need for incredients or any components - once you choose the HLA, the druid will be able to create one from the 8-10 different mixtures or cures (or raw herbs), choosing from a list. As I said, these aren't potions, to create those the druid would require at least a place to brew them. No, these will be mostly raw herbs and plants, finely sorted and magically prepared by the high-druid. These can be eaten as they are, and will have various beneficial effects. Note that a few (more powerful) selections will have some negative effects too (for example a group of green berries increase the users STR and CON by 3 points, but has a chance to make him/her go berserk for a while).

Ideas, suggestions before the final version? Is it good in this form? Also, what do you think? Should these berries and herbs be useable for a limited time only (1 day for example) this way preventing the druid to accumulate a larger amount for later use?

[hlidskialf]

Lets continue the discussion of Herbalism in this thread.
I already finished the main part of the ability, but I'd like to ask a few questions. Currently this ability assumes the druid to be collecting all kinds of rare or magical herbs and goodies as you travel. This means there will be no need for incredients or any components - once you choose the HLA, the druid will be able to create one from the 8-10 different mixtures or cures (or raw herbs), choosing from a list. As I said, these aren't potions, to create those the druid would require at least a place to brew them. No, these will be mostly raw herbs and plants, finely sorted and magically prepared by the high-druid. These can be eaten as they are, and will have various beneficial effects. Note that a few (more powerful) selections will have some negative effects too (for example a group of green berries increase the users STR and CON by 3 points, but has a chance to make him/her go berserk for a while).

Ideas, suggestions before the final version? Is it good in this form? Also, what do you think? Should these berries and herbs be useable for a limited time only (1 day for example) this way preventing the druid to accumulate a larger amount for later use?

IMO there should be some kind of time limit on the use of the concotions. Unless they are of the "Cure moderate wounds" level or so. The high-end ones need the limited duration to prevent the party spending a week doing nothing but resting/creating to stockpile vast quantities. For game balance ya' understand.
As for other ideas, I think it'd way-cool if there was some area specific ones that could be created. While you mentioned that the druid is obviously gathering as he goes, perhaps if the ability is used in certain wilderness areas, different options are possible. Or say in the underdark, or that bizarre habitat under the CC, some special fungal component is availabe at the time of creation to make a unique potion. With only moderate work, this could turn into a real "scavanger hunt" type ability for the player, and take away from the ho-hum-another-ability feeling.
Just my 2 coppers worth.

[T.G.Maestro]

With only moderate work, this could turn into a real "scavanger hunt" type ability for the player, and take away from the ho-hum-another-ability feeling.

If Littiz or The_Bigg can take up this (additional) task, then it is a must. We'll see after they have a few comments on this.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

I really don't want to gain any more bad karma but I thought that I might add that The Black Wyrm folks have released a Herbs & Potions Add-in for Baldur's Gate II mod ... I *know* that TGM already is aware of this, but not sure about others.

From the look of things it's substantially different from the HLA idea proposed here but, still, I thought that it would bare mentioning.

Anyway what *I* would like to see from a Druid Herbalism HLA is the following:

1. The ability to create a *small* number of existing potions. Ones I favor include Elixir of Health (only healing potion good over the whole game IMO & no other Healing potions via Herbalism they are either too powerful or too weak), Potion of Clairity, Potion of Mirrored Eyes, Potion of Insight, & maybe a few others.

2. The ability to create a *new* potion or two. Elixer of Insect Repellant (immunity to summon inscets spells) would be one such idea. Another thing that I would love to see would be access to 1 to 3 cleric only spells via this HLA. Stuff like Zone of Sweet Air & maybe Sanctuary. (Heh. Think an Armor of Faith potion might be too powerful for the Barbarians? )

3. The ability to create a *new* druid only wand or two. Nothing too powerful but IMO druids could really use a special *wooden* or plant wand or two.


I see threee ways to do item creations.

1. 100% Random, just like the old wizard scroll & wand HLAs.

2. Have a 'Spell Immunity like' submenu to let the Druid pick what he wants to create & give him a % chance of success depending on his level and what he picks.

3. Have the *area* the druid is in influence the odds of item creation. For instance the Druid might only be able to create the most minor of potions & such using their gathered supplies while in the city or Watchers Keep. However in the Grove they might have a shot at creating one of the new wands. I see this as a blend of the 'can use Herbalism anywhere' schools & 'should only be useable outdoors' schools.

Edited by Rathwellin the Bard, 25 September 2004 - 06:09 AM.