Castor

I personally did not and do not feel this a significant incident, but your rights are indeed yours, and so I am answering you to the best of my ability.

Thank you, Tempest. I fully appreciate your efforts, and they have been most fruitful so far. You have my gratitude for solving this problem quickly and without any casualties along the way.

Your concerns are certainly valid, and when we saw this turning into a major issue, we [the players mainly, but the staff as a whole] quickly and have already reached an internal consensus to keep a tight lid on this. I, for one, did not realize our talking alienated people, and as I have stated, this is my own fault. As a group, we have reached a consensus to avoid talking about the campaign in public threads. Speaking for myself, I never realized the impact talking about it might have/have had on the community as a whole, and I offer my apologies for my carelessness.

[...]

I am aware there have been misunderstandings in this issue, on both sides. I in particular have been careless and didn't think things through all the way. I thank you for bringing this to our attention-it would never have occured to me, for one, that we were alienating or offending anyone by our words and actions, and am glad you brought it up directly so we could deal with an issue we might never have seen otherwise.

Again, thank you. This clarification and assurance of improvement in the future was all I was aiming for. I hope everyone feels as if the Candlekeep Company issue has been solved.

That's something you'll have to ask Ilmatar herself about, but my personal opinion on the subject is that Ilmatar should be free to explain the context of any artwork she makes if she so chooses. I believe the concerns here are better answered in my paragraph above.

I still would appreciate the continuation of the artwork in this thread, but as stated previously, the real origins could be less obvious. However, I respect your opinion on the matter as well, and maybe we can agree to disagree? In any case, it is out of our hands--we can do no more than to suggest. You are right--no one but Ilmatar would be able to address this issue.

And if anyone has any questions or concerns about anything that goes on here at SHS, you have every right to ask. You might want to avoid hijacking threads to do so in the future, however.

Thank you.

I humbly apologize for hijacking the thread. As you might remember, I apologized for doing this in my first post in the thread (first paragraph), and politely suggested it to be split (also first paragraph) out of consideration for the original topic. I was not aware that members such as myself could perform such an undertaking--I do not see an option anywhere, so if you could direct me to the function, I would appreciate it.

If I do not have any ability to do so myself, then I feel your comment is slightly unjustified. It was not my intention to drive the thread further off-topic and offered a solution, which in this case has been ignored. It is my belief that blaming me for an issue I cannot solve--but attempted to by proposing a course of action--is not particularly fair.

(When previewing my post, I saw that Ilmatar had split the topic. Thank you.)

Perhaps that could have been worded a little better. When Candlekeep Company was set up, the idea was for staff to come and go when time and leisure allowed it. So, anybody was free to roll up a character and sign up. If the group got too big, there was talk of splitting it into two groups. So far, the composition has been pretty constant, although individual players have taken breaks from it from time to time when RL responsibilities, deadlines, or workload demanded that they spend more time on other matters.

The group is rather large. Somehow, the current DM manages to keep track of what everyone is doing, but I am not certain how many more players, if any, could join before he became overwhelmed. If a staff member wanted to join, it would be up to the DM to decide whether he could handle one more player.

So, in an attempt to clarify what Tempest said, when the game was formed, it was open to all staff. Should a non-playing staff member want to join the campaign, that would be up to the DM to decide if there was room for one more. Now that the DM has had some time to evaluate the challenges of moderating such a large group of players, he might have a better understanding of how many could be accommodated than at the outset.

Yes, perhaps talking openly about the characters and situations wasn't necessarily the best idea. And the fact that Ilmatar has produced some lovely art on the subject has probably only fueled interest.

But there is absolutely no reason a new campaign couldn't be even more interesting and engaging, after the characters have had a chance to develop a bit. What makes Candlekeep Company, and some of the other PbP campaigns appealing is that they are already underway, and the characters are already doing things and interacting with each other. This does take a little bit of time. Chapter 2 is usually a better read than Chapter 1.

Thank you very much for clarifying this, berelinde. It does indeed make a lot of sense. I truly value the fact that you are listening to my concerns and even more so that you appear to be rectifying the problem.

You're absolutely right.

Thanks for speaking your mind.

Thank you once again. May I, however, trouble you with a response to my previous point, which is still causing some distress? In order to find what I am referring to, I would like to direct you to the last paragraph before the last quote in my post prior to this one. The paragraph in question starts with the sentence "In light of what you quoted, I would like to to clarify what I meant."

Thank you for listening to my opinions,

Castor

I apologize in advance for a somewhat lengthy response to the points that have been made since my previous reply.

I have no idea how this is getting so out of hand, but I will answer your concerns-this has been raising issues with myself and other members of the staff, as it has come largely out of the blue. We did not anticipate this sort of thing at all.

I can only speak for myself, but I do apologize for any sort of commotion I might have caused. That was not my intention.

However, I do not feel as if anything is "getting out of hand." I see no reason why this cannot be discussed in a polite and civilized manner. It is apparently an issue that has caused several members, myself included, to raise an eyebrow at the endeavors of the Spellhold Studios staff. While not all my fellow forum users might agree with my interpretation of this situation, I believe that I, as well as any other member, should be able to voice any opinions, questions or objections to how this community is being run. Do you not agree?

First of all, yes, there is a Play by Post campaign titled the Candlekeep Company, and yes it is exclusive to staff. However, while it is open to all interested forum staff, only a small number of staff have chosen to participate. There is no limit on the number of players per se, but in this PnP DM's opinion, the playing group has largely reached a critical mass of players/characters, so to speak. One player has dropped out, assigning control and playing of his character to another individual, and the CC DM has largely stopped playing his own character due to the demands of DM'ing the campaign.

Thank you for clarifying this point.

I do apologize for feeling the need to point out a slight flaw in what you said. The campaign is open to all staff members, of which only a small number have chosen to participate--then you say that the playing group has reached a critical mass of players. Is those two statements contradictory? What would happen, for instance, should a non-playing staff member ask to be involved in the role-playing sessions?

The comments and in-jokes expressed by myself and others were never intended to be rude or disrespectful to others. We were simply players talking about a game we play, but doing so out of context, similar to a group of DnD or video-game players discussing a game they play in the real world while in a crowded, public area. There is no disrespectful intent-they are simply talking about a game they play. I will be the first to admit my comments do tend to grow out of hand very rapidly, and this is no one's fault but my own.

Thank you for your honesty, Tempest. I truly appreciate your candidness.

I still feel slightly apprehensive towards the wide-spread flaunting of the campaign, however. People who play enjoy playing video games always have the ability to procuring a specific game, in order to be able to discuss it, while in this case, none of us outside the staff are allowed entry. Do you not think it slightly insensitive and nonchalant to wave this fact in front of our faces?

I have said before that I do not deny you the right to play this campaign, but perhaps it would be wise to not gasconade it, and instead keep it as it was meant to be--private?

The individual running the Candlekeep Campaign is doing so purely in his own spare time and because he enjoys doing so. He actively chooses to spend his time and energy helping the game play-it is not a matter of obligation that more people participate because he is willing to DM a campaign when such is difficult enough to do. He is DM'ing for the same reason we are playing-to have fun as a group of people. Yes, it may seem intimidating to board lurkers and those not involved. However, as a group of people who work together and are friends of a sort (insofar as actual friendship is possible through a medium such as an internet message board), we do tend to act as such.

I can understand the time and effort involved in leading a Dungeons & Dragons campaign, but I am very sorry to admit that I fail to see the relevance of this paragraph in this discussion.

Ilmatar is, in my opinion, a very talented artist who chooses to draw and share her work with others of her own free will. We have not asked her to draw our characters or events from our campaign-she does so because she chooses to do so, and shares them for the same reason. She did not mean to disrespect or insult anyone not involved in the PbP campaign-she simply wanted to share her artwork with people.

Oh, I do agree! Ilmatar is an exceptionally talented artist who deserves all the praise she receives--and she should probably have even more. I also understand that Play-by-Post, as well as any role-playing, can be a stupendous source of inspiration to any artist. I definitely do not want her to cease sharing her artwork with the public, but perhaps the source of the magnificent artwork could be kept somewhat hushed--if only for the sake of it not stirring up debates such as the one we have now?

We did not anticipate a reaction of this sort, and perhaps some fault is indeed on our shoulders for not making a public announcement about this earlier. No disrespect was ever intended, and we apologize for anyone who has felt they were so offended. I have not thought often about the consequences of what I post, and that is my fault alone, not of the staff as a whole, and not of Spellhold Studios as an institution.

I hope we can put this incident behind us.

Your sentiments are fully reciprocated on my behalf. Again, I wish to thank you for your honesty and eagerness to resolve the situation.

This is one of the reasons I asked whether the campaign was full; if not, do you not think it unfair to us ordinary peons to deny participation, when other campaigns are so difficult to initiate?

No offense to anyone here, but if you want to play so badly, I'd suggest you buy all the DM manuals and become a DM yourself instead of whining about why other people get shiny toys and you don't.

I really don't mean to offend anyone, but no one is automatically entitled to everything. A certain degree of elitism will always be found so long as people form groups, make friendships, and do things together. My coworkers and I alienate people when we go out to dinner because we work together and act like a group of people who know each other. This summer, several of my fellow teachers and I went on a big hiking trip. Was it unfair to the "ordinary peons" who didn't get to go and share our wonderful experiences? Yes. We put the time and effort into organizing, planning, and ultimately doing it, so we got to enjoy the hiking trip. Same principle here.

I must admit I take a bit of exception with your reply, Solstice. I perceive it, unfortunately, as slightly disrespectful, and I seriously hope this was not your intention.

As I have explained in my previous post, as well as this one, I do not wish to withhold this source of entertainment for the staff. They do an excellent job--I doubt we can fully appreciate their hard work--and if this is some sort of reward for those accomplishments, I say they fully deserve it!

Not everything is allowed to everyone--that is how life is, and I understand that completely. What I feel slightly troubled about, anyhow, is the conduct and reference of this campaign in public. Surely you did not rub the nose of anyone who was not allowed to come with you on what I am sure was a wonderful hiking trip?

I did notice that you seem to share my opinion of it being unfair, however. Perhaps our viewpoints are more similar than you originally thought?

In light of what you quoted, I would like to to clarify what I meant. The discussion, up to that point, seems to have been about a private and exclusive Play-by-Post campaign in which only Spellhold Studios staff is allowed to participate. In adding to that discussion, what berelinde--who is a Coordinator, which I perceive to be a senior staff position--effectively expressed was how difficult it is to initiate a Play-by-Post campaign. I found that statement extremely concerning, since berelinde's post could, in context of the other replies, be interpreted as haughtiness and further nose-rubbing by insinuating that "it's very difficult to start a Play-by-Post campaign, but we are alright, because we have one exclusively for the staff!" I highly doubt that is how berelinde intended it, but it is how it came across, and I view it as far beneath the position berelinde holds to say anything that could be remotely interpreted as an escalation in the high-handedness in an already sensitive topic. That is what prompted my reply.

Castor, Molly, and anyone else who has been offended by this incident, please accept my apologies. We are indeed at fault, and I hope we can put all this behind us.

As echoed previously, I hope so too. I only have a few final questions in this post I wish to have clarified before I will be content to leave the matter be.

Again, thank you for reading,

Castor

Solstice, Solar's Harper; I am afraid I shall have to somewhat disagree with your assessments and agree with Molly on this. I have rather shamelessly been "skulking" these forums for quite some time now, and have, as Molly has, made certain observations. I find this topic to be of great interest as it raises a couple of curious questions. I apologize to Ilmatar from further steering this off-topic--I would never presume to know better than the adept moderators of Spellhold Studios, but perhaps a slight split of this topic would be in order, as to insure that posting and discussion of Ilmatar's wonderful creations can continue, while this subject I'm about to contribute to could be taken elsewhere.

First of all, I would like a member of the Spellhold Studios staff to either confirm or deny the existence of a Play-by-Post campaign called "The Candlekeep Company--"Tempest has, more or less, already done so, but a more official verification would be appreciated. If the answer is yes, I would second to it also like to inquire whether this campaign is, as has been insinuated, exclusive to the Spellhold Studios staff. Thirdly, I would like to know whether this Play-by-Post campaign is considered "full" by any number-of-people standard.

I think I might be able to adequately express my own subjective views on the matter while responding to Solar's Harper previous post:

Ok lets settle this before it gets outta hand.
Facts:
1. Not an exclusive club

I believe that the term you are using here, "exclusive," actually applies to the situation. If this Play-by-Post campaign is available solely to staff members, then it is, in fact, restricted to a group of people. Neither you nor I would be allowed to join, and that, per definition, makes it exclusive.

The term which has become the subject of discussion, however, seems to be "elitism." Whether the existence of "The Candlekeep Company" (assuming it does exist, of course) is an act of elitism on behalf of the Spellhold Studios staff can be argued from both sides. While I do not deny the capable and most likely hard-working moderators and administrators of this excellent community the right to-- as is the slang these days"--chill out" and take a brief respite between their weighing responsibilities, it is the matter of which they flaunt this exclusiveness. Elitism, seen from my perspective, is not the privacy itself, but the way the affiliates of the restricted group parade the conception that they, indeed, are a part of something others are not allowed access to.

In this particular case, my opinion is that the otherwise so qualified and skilled staff has shown behavior not fit a body so competent as it normally is. Mention of this campaign (again, assuming it exists), as well as its characters have been openly proclaimed, often in reference to notions people only in the know would understand. These so-called "in-jokes," as well as other sentiments, from what I can discern, have been apparent both in this thread, as well as other threads all over Spellhold Studios--especially The Recreation Room, where insights from "The Candlekeep Company" have been cited in several threads. Those topics, in their own right, are almost semi-role-playing as they are, in between a regular group of users. Although not exclusive, as anyone can join, I imagine some would find it slightly intimidating to attempt to join in on a such well-established click. But that is neither here nor there.

2. Chances are coffee and donuts will run out and someone will end up having to race down to the store to get more

I am afraid I do not understand what you mean.

3. Most Spellhold activity is spent outside of those forums.

Do you know this with any certainty? I would never believe this to be wrong, but it would be presumptuous to assume this to be truth.

Ok now that's settled, there are other private forums out there Molly, but these workrooms as we call them are strictly for mod work basis. If you ever wish to contribute when help is required, be sure to raise your hand to it and if the person or people working on the mod feel you would contribute well etc, they'll get you access to the workroom and you can start making the modding community sparkle.

Its kind of a reverse process with trying to startup your own workroom.

I humbly apologize, but I fail to see the relevance of mod-making workrooms to this discussion.

As for other "private forums," I do not believe we can be certain of exactly which or how many restricted forums that exist, either.

I would also like to take the opportunity to highlight a point in berelinde's enlightening post:

Problem with PbP is the same as problems anywhere else: it's always easier to get players than it is to get someone to run it. It's a lot of work running a campaign, so it's not always easy finding a DM, and the campaigns in existence fill up very, very quickly.

I fully appreciate this problem and can envision the reality of such campaign. However, if this is true--which I do not doubt it is--then all the more reason to ask whether the Spellhold Studios staff is holding exclusive role-playing sessions. This is one of the reasons I asked whether the campaign was full; if not, do you not think it unfair to us ordinary peons to deny participation, when other campaigns are so difficult to initiate?

Thank you for reading my concerns,

Castor