75 replies to this topic

[khay]

Nice ones, I might add!

[Archmage Silver]

Indeed! I like the forest particulary. But what's the creature next to it? Oblivion hell-kind creature?

[Archmage Silver]

New Screenies! Check 73h armor!

[Tom]

Woo, and a spooky cave too xD

[NiGHTMARE]

Anyone who's seen these shots and stills claims the IE looks better than modern 3D RPG engines (see the BG III thread) is deluding themselves .

[Sir Kalthorine]

Anyone who's seen these shots and stills claims the IE looks better than modern 3D RPG engines (see the BG III thread) is deluding themselves .

You are absolutely right, games based on the IE engine look crummy compared to games with modern 3D graphics.

But on my crummy laptop at home at least IE games are playable Plus a gripe of mine is that a lot of modern games are so obsessed with how they look, they often forget about how they play (i.e. decent storyline, dialogue etc.).

[NiGHTMARE]

That doesn't make any sense. The artists and the writers are two completely different groups of people - with the occassional exception (e.g. Rollercoaster Tycoon) the days where one person would work on multiple aspects of a commercial game died over a decade and a half ago.

[Yacomo]

You are absolutely right, games based on the IE engine look crummy compared to games with modern 3D graphics.

Is 2d really so much 'worse' than 3d? For me it's more of a different form of art. Of course using new technology is always tempting when it first appears, but I feel even in a world full of computer-generated movies like Shrek there is still a place for old-style animation movies like Cinderella.
The same goes for computer games. I do not think 3d is a 'must have', even Oblivion can not reach the level of detail you can achieve by a hand-drawn background image. But then, maybe I am totally nostalgic here
And when it comes to modding, then I will still prefer the IE games, since it is at least possible to create completely new area graphics for them. Creating all new graphics for a 3d game sounds more or less out of reach for a mere modder. I fear you'll have to stick to the assets the developer of the game offers you.

[Tom]

The same goes for computer games. I do not think 3d is a 'must have', even Oblivion can not reach the level of detail you can achieve by a hand-drawn background image. But then, maybe I am totally nostalgic here
And when it comes to modding, then I will still prefer the IE games, since it is at least possible to create completely new area graphics for them. Creating all new graphics for a 3d game sounds more or less out of reach for a mere modder. I fear you'll have to stick to the assets the developer of the game offers you.

With the technology nowadays Im sure a hand-drawn background may well look better than this, but it would certianly not be as functional or interactive as this, and have you ever tried creating new areas in Morrowind? You can do it effortlessly in the CS, it works much the same way as in NwN except more flexible.

Edited by Tom, 11 April 2005 - 04:25 AM.

[NiGHTMARE]

The same goes for computer games. I do not think 3d is a 'must have', even Oblivion can not reach the level of detail you can achieve by a hand-drawn background image. But then, maybe I am totally nostalgic here

But that's the thing - the art in the Infinity Engine games wasn't hand-drawn, it was designed with 3D rendering software.

Creating all new graphics for a 3d game sounds more or less out of reach for a mere modder. I fear you'll have to stick to the assets the developer of the game offers you.

Having experience with both, I can tell you that creating new areas in a 3D game is not only easier but also considerably less time consuming than with a 2D game .

For me the difference between modern 3D graphics and 2D graphics is almost akin to the difference actually walking around a real world location, and looking at a bunch of photographs of it.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 05:13 AM.

[Yacomo]

I do understand, being a fan of 2d graphics makes me a dying species

But that's the thing - the art in the Infinity Engine games wasn't hand-drawn, it was designed with 3D rendering software.

Yes, you are right. I remember however that on Planet Baldur's Gate they posted an article on the post-processing of the IWD graphics. They had some very impressive 'before' and 'after' pics. So they did at least do some 'hand-work' for that game. Never seen an article on this topic for the BG games though.

Creating all new graphics for a 3d game sounds more or less out of reach for a mere modder. I fear you'll have to stick to the assets the developer of the game offers you.

Having experience with both, I can tell you that creating new areas in a 3D game is not only easier but also considerably less time consuming than with a 2D game.

Of course, creating new areas is easier - my point was: There is a difference between creating a new area using existing assets and creating all-new art. I fear, if you want to create a new area for a 3d game including all new graphics, new objects, textures, lighting etc. you need to do much more work than 'simply' drawing a 2d background. So you will most likely have to stick to the assets that the developer offers you. So if they do not offer winter terrain, you might never be able to add a snow covered area to your mod (just as an example).
See, I am mostly interested in the 'artistic' part of modding. And I hope i can learn how to do this for a 2d game - but doing it for a 3d game seems to be totally out-of-reach for me. That's the reason I would prefer a 2d game for my modding hobby instead of a 3d one. But hey, 3d software is becoming much more approachable recently, so even this may become easier in the future.

[Archmage Silver]

At least we can all agree that Oblivion looks good now, eh?

[Yacomo]

At least we can all agree that Oblivion looks good now, eh?

No doubt about this! Sorry for becoming off-topic

[Archmage Silver]

Nope, getting off-topic is kinda the tradition around here anyway.

[NiGHTMARE]

So if they do not offer winter terrain, you might never be able to add a snow covered area to your mod (just as an example).

As long as the game isn't tile-based (which Oblivion almost certainly will not be), and the game doesn't require dozens of layers for each texture (as Doom 3 does), then if you've got the talent to hand-draw and implement a 2D area, you will almost certainly be able to quickly and easily create and implement new textures, and have as many as you like .

Just as an example, I've created a Doom 2 texture pack which contains somewhere between 400-500 new textures, and it wasn't exactly hard to add them into the game (though obviously that many textures requires a considerable amount of time) .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 11 April 2005 - 06:51 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Check out the new screenshots if you haven't already: http://www.elderscro..._screens_01.htm
Watching the trailer I'm waiting all the more anxiously for this game!

[Tom]

Haha, youre a bit behind, Archmage Silver. If you look at the goblin on the left, in the top right hand shot, you see a little bit of distortion of the skin where its bending (DONT ask why I was looking at the goblin's groin), and if you look at the minotaur with the axe, look at its shoulder you see the same thing (to a lesser degree.) It may be a small detail, but I wonder if theyll have this sort of stuff sorted out in the release.

[Archmage Silver]

Ahh... well. There always seem to be things like these, it doesn't matter if they fix it pre-release. Btw, why were you looking at the goblin's groin? lol

[Tom]

Looks like there are a few more now, and some Xbox 360 ones (Im not sure how long these have been there, but I must keep people up to date )

[Torn]

Man! This game looks like it'll be killer. And it even seems as though they removed one of my biggest gripes with Morrowind - namely, cities that look like... well, nothing really, but least of all cities. When I finally reached Vivec, after questing for days and travelling through the backwaters of the island, I was very disheartened to see this weird looking fortress-like thing that looked like nothing that has ever existed in the real world. It looks like Oblivion will be changing this, so bravo!

If they revamp the dialogue system as well, it'll be even better... but what are the chances of that?