193 replies to this topic

[SimDing0]

You now seem to be... duplicating what Tutu does.

[King Diamond]

UPDATE: the .mos and .bmp work so we can import that, but here is a breakthrough...using the BG1 WEDs with the BG1 TISs allows the areas to load properly.  Will this cause any other problems that I am unaware of?  If not, then this is a great way of reducing size.

How about areas' naming then?
They're definitely can't keep their bg1 names.... And of course you can't just rename the files - you need to change every references inside WEDs....

And once again - if an area contains some water it'll suck with it's green surface...

Edited by King Diamond, 09 February 2005 - 06:31 AM.

[Ascension64]

UPDATE: the .mos and .bmp work so we can import that, but here is a breakthrough...using the BG1 WEDs with the BG1 TISs allows the areas to load properly.  Will this cause any other problems that I am unaware of?  If not, then this is a great way of reducing size.

How about areas' naming then?
They're definitely can't keep their bg1 names.... And of course you can't just rename the files - you need to change every references inside WEDs....

And once again - if an area contains some water it'll suck with it's green surface...

I see, I'll leave those alone then. How does Tutu do it then?

It will make it difficult for me to distribute (as a non-tilesets package) unless people can find a way to append all the area BIFFs to their chitin.key.

[King Diamond]

It will make it difficult for me to distribute (as a non-tilesets package) unless people can find a way to append all the area BIFFs to their chitin.key.

It is only one way for now. People'll have to have the original BGT (BGTv1) and new WeiDU (BGTv2) package. Then they have'll to extract BGTv1 contents, run some preparation .bat from BGTv2 (which removes or adds something), then - extract contents of BGTv2 to BGTv1 location and then start an actual installation.
Messy but necessary....

P.S> Don't forget a fixed sewers area....

Edited by King Diamond, 09 February 2005 - 11:21 AM.

[SimDing0]

Messy but necessary....

Is now a good time to mention Just One More Time that none of this is at all necessary?

[dowish]

Messy but necessary....

Is now a good time to mention Just One More Time that none of this is at all necessary?

SimDing0, I'm wondering if you could clear something up for me. My understanding is that Tutu lets the BG2 exe use the BG1 data. This is certianly the elegant/finess solution. However it seems that you still have two games installed.

Now BGT is deffinately a brute force solution, after all all the BG1 contents is stuffed in and around BG2. The advantage to that though, the way I see it, is you end up with one game, i.e. one dialog.tlk, chitin.key, etc.

I can understand if you like BG1 and BG2 seperate, which I think you've stated before, but wouldn't it even easier to just play BG1 then BG2? However if you are wanting to play though the whole story BGT seems the way to go, especially if you add in the modding potential.

Let me know where i'm full of hot air, my wife does all the time so I can take it.

[SimDing0]

I can understand if you like BG1 and BG2 seperate, which I think you've stated before, but wouldn't it even easier to just play BG1 then BG2?  However if you are wanting to play though the whole story BGT seems the way to go, especially if you add in the modding potential.

Well. Yes, with Tutu you still have both games installed, but everything's accessed through BG2. The BG1 KEY and TLK can be deleted completely, if you really want.
But as I've been saying the whole time, it'd be pretty easy to make a transition so you could use Tutu to play through BG1 and BG2 just like you can in BGT, since all the BG2 content is still there and playable (you can CLUA into BG2 areas with Tutu installed). The net advantage of using BGT in this scenario is nil, given that WeiDU BP could probably be fairly easily adapted to work with Tutu.
I'm not trying to come in here and say "okay people, BGT is obsolete, let's use Tutu now". I'm saying "okay, let's stop fucking about wasting both our time, and take the best parts of both mods". Trying to re-invent the wheel and have BGT convert some resources like MOS and TIS files when it's already been done doesn't seem productive.

Edited by SimDing0, 09 February 2005 - 01:27 PM.

[dowish]

But as I've been saying the whole time, it'd be pretty easy to make a transition so you could use Tutu to play through BG1 and BG2 just like you can in BGT, since all the BG2 content is still there and playable (you can CLUA into BG2 areas with Tutu installed). The net advantage of using BGT in this scenario is nil, given that WeiDU BP could probably be fairly easily adapted to work with Tutu.
I'm not trying to come in here and say "okay people, BGT is obsolete, let's use Tutu now". I'm saying "okay, let's stop fucking about wasting both our time, and take the best parts of both mods". Trying to re-invent the wheel and have BGT convert some resources like MOS and TIS files when it's already been done doesn't seem productive.

Can a game be starting in SOA or TOB with Tutu installed?

I understand that converting resources is a tutu strength and that a transition is a BGT strength, but what are some other strengths/weakeness are there for each one?

I think i'm done hijacking the thread now.

[SimDing0]

Can a game be starting in SOA or TOB with Tutu installed?

Not currently, but re-enabling it is obscenely easy. At some point in the near future, there's almost bound to be a mod which can be installed over Tutu, allowing you to play it exactly the way you play BGT: BG1 via the Tutorial button, BG2 and ToB as normal. Somebody actually made one once before and posted it on the old Tutu forum, although I never tried it.
...and I just think it'd be an awful shame for so much effort to have gone into WeiDU-BGT, only to find that Tutu could suddenly do the same thing with 1/500th of the download size. It's a lot less wasted effort if a Tutu transition mod's made sooner rather than later. I continue to appeal to the BGT people to scrap the concept of two mods that do similar things, and indulge in one which does better than both.

I understand that converting resources is a tutu strength and that a transition is a BGT strength, but what are some other strengths/weakeness are there for each one?

Cam put together a list for comparison, but I can't find it for the life of me. If anyone else can either dig it up or suggest any other advantages BGT has that I haven't addressed, then that'd be great.

Edited by SimDing0, 09 February 2005 - 01:50 PM.

[CamDawg]

Here you go:

http://forums.gibber...owtopic=638&hl=

[Ascension64]

It will make it difficult for me to distribute (as a non-tilesets package) unless people can find a way to append all the area BIFFs to their chitin.key.

It is only one way for now. People'll have to have the original BGT (BGTv1) and new WeiDU (BGTv2) package. Then they have'll to extract BGTv1 contents, run some preparation .bat from BGTv2 (which removes or adds something), then - extract contents of BGTv2 to BGTv1 location and then start an actual installation.
Messy but necessary....

P.S> Don't forget a fixed sewers area....

It seems quite risky because DLTCEP and NI will probably have heaps of errors being unable to find BIFs that will be deleted (such as BG1CRE and BG1ITM) and even if you replace them there will be missing resources.

What about re-extracting and BIFFing the TIZ from the original BGT package? It will take some time for the end user but will save the troubles with missing resources in chitin.key and in DLTCEP and NI

Is now a good time to mention Just One More Time that none of this is at all necessary?

@SimDing0: I just love your optimism
Blame me for wasting my time, but I'm finding it fun at the moment.

[Ghreyfain]

If Sim becomes a drooling wreck of a man because of this discussion, I'm going to hold you solely responsible. We need him to, like, fix stuff. And stuff.

[russ]

If I may throw in my 2 cents here about Tutu v. BGT, there are currently the following mods for BGT, dark side of the sword coast, secret of bonehill and ntotsc. I don't believe any of these are compatible with Tutu (maybe dsotc is?). Also, while you have a valid point that BGT changes the storyline I hope, once BGT is converted to Weidu, that the changes which don't make sense will be removed and changes that do make sense will be improved in later versions of BGT or later mods. I think that it is easier in BGT for there to be a continuous storyline from BG1 thru ToB just that it hasn't been implemented yet because BGT has not been a Weidu mod. Maybe I'm wrong but these are the reasons I chose to download BGT over Tutu.

[Ascension64]

Please guys, no more arguments for/against BGT-WeiDU and BGT-Tutu on this thread. I started this topic because I wanted to get some *serious* assistance in the development of this. Arguments for/against BGT-WeiDU will not affect my development of it in any way, but clutter this thread making it hard to read. As for the community, this is a bonus. If BGT-Tutu will become developed soon, then I would have nothing against it, and that would also be a bonus. So I am asking everyone to confine their posts in this thread to those that will PRODUCTIVELY assist in the development of BGT-WeiDU only.

If you want to whine or argue, please put those in a different thread from this one. I appreciate KD with his help and other offers for help, but I am rather peeved at the relative spam that is coming out that originated from the BGT-WeiDU/BGT-Tutu argument.

Thanks for your time.

[SimDing0]

If I may throw in my 2 cents here about Tutu v. BGT, there are currently the following mods for BGT, dark side of the sword coast, secret of bonehill and ntotsc. I don't believe any of these are compatible with Tutu (maybe dsotc is?). Also, while you have a valid point that BGT changes the storyline I hope, once BGT is converted to Weidu, that the changes which don't make sense will be removed and changes that do make sense will be improved in later versions of BGT or later mods. I think that it is easier in BGT for there to be a continuous storyline from BG1 thru ToB just that it hasn't been implemented yet because BGT has not been a Weidu mod. Maybe I'm wrong but these are the reasons I chose to download BGT over Tutu.

But that's not significant. It'd be possible to give Tutu all the advantages of BGT easily. But nobody here wants to listen, because OMFG BGT>>>>>>TUTU LOL STOP SPAMING!!!!1

If you want to whine or argue, please put those in a different thread from this one. I appreciate KD with his help and other offers for help, but I am rather peeved at the relative spam that is coming out that originated from the BGT-WeiDU/BGT-Tutu argument.

Modding advice is not spam. Who will it take to tell you you're doing things a hugely, hugely inefficient way?

I'm not gonna waste my time bashing my head against a brick wall any longer. If you're enjoying it, then that's good, but I do hope you won't be promoting obsolete material once a Tutu transition is out.

Edited by SimDing0, 10 February 2005 - 12:04 AM.

[horred the plague]

*quietly observes in stealth mode*

Yep, i'm stayin' outta this debate....

[Offkorn]

Sim, now you're just being rude. Just because you believe something is better, doesn't mean it is.

If Ascension wants to weidu BGT that's his choice and one a great many people are happy about. If you don't agree with that, that's fine, but there is no need to go ranting and raving about it.

Edited by Offkorn, 10 February 2005 - 01:42 AM.

[Ascension64]

Progress update

BGT-WeiDU is nearing release. What has been done since the last update:

1. GUI text changed
2. checked through all scripts
3. fixed up joinable NPC soundsets
4. cleared parse errors in scripts and dialogues

Things that still need to be cleared up are:

1. fix up REPLACE_BCS_BLOCK -- for some reason WeiDU doesn't seem to like it very much and can never find the original block
2. packaging and uploading
3. readme

The size of the package will be about 50MB, but will draw on bgt_mk3_112 (the original BGT) for tilesets and music. Thus you will need to extract the contents of that archive into your BGII directory so you get a folder named bgt3 in your BGII directory. The setup will handle the music and tilesets then.

What still needs to be done after the first release:

1. check through dialogues and stores
2. compatibility with BP

At the moment, a CLEAN ToB install is recommended. This has not been tested with anything else. For those with a clean ToB install I have included a presetup file that will BIFF the override files from patch 24968 (or whatever number it is). This will help in working out which files are erroneous/redundant when it comes to bug-testing.