91 replies to this topic

[drake127]

*casts summon Cassandra*

Heh, I do not understand.

[the bigg]

Littiz, the one who dealt with Merciful Fighting, is nicked "Cassandra" since he always predicts succesfully all possible problems with my and TGM's uncareful fiddling

[CamDawg]

I expect modders to fix bugs found in their mods. I am not advocating that Refinements ignore this.

Let me rephrase what I said:

Sorry the bigg, I was responding to drake127 and we cross-posted. I was trying to figure out why drake127 thought I would be advocating that Refinements not fix bugs, not trying to get on your case.

[the bigg]

Sorry the bigg, I was responding to drake127 and we cross-posted. I was trying to figure out why drake127 thought I would be advocating that Refinements not fix bugs, not trying to get on your case.

Ah, OK then

Edited by the bigg, 10 April 2005 - 06:11 AM.

[sevencreature]

Well, I am starting to think that nobody has actully played Sword Angel in Refinements v2.x Or at least nobody really use Merciful Fighting... (Littiz must be really sorrowful )

Well, time to redress it :w00t:

[the bigg]

The really strange thing is that Littiz hadn't found that bug while testing - yes, he even tests stuff, a rare thing in out little team

[Littiz]

Well, I am starting to think that nobody has actully played Sword Angel in Refinements v2.x  Or at least nobody really use Merciful Fighting... (Littiz must be really sorrowful  )

Both true probably, but at least the first one is justified, since V2 has been released just a few days ago
Merciful Fighting worked correctly in V1, but the implementation was quite different.
I thought a smoother version would prove a better choice, so I changed it.
Besides, I did test the ability, I saw the animation stopping at the right moment and penalties applied when needed, and bothered no more.
Lesson: bugs show up *even* when you test things, if you don't go deep enough :glare:
Thanx @drake and @sevencreature, I'll check this out.
I used the time setting "9" (which is actually labelled as "Permanent After Bonuses" in NI), since with that I'm sure bonuses will stack correctly. I must verify that the value "1" won't create problems of other kind, otherwise I'll have to backtrack to the previous implementation....

Well another question: how many effects '0' (bonus to AC) with value '1' should have Sword Angel at level 7? I have created SA, started game, paused and exported (well best stats I have probably ever rolled  ) and he had AC 3 (DEX 18)... But then when I tested that dmg problem I created another SA, again DEX 18 and he had AC 5...

SA with AC 3 has 3 instances of effect '0' - all with bonus to AC=1, SA with 5 only one instance... Of course, according to kit description, there should be only one, AC 5, but how is that first case possible?

Hm.
SA gets a -2 bonus to AC at start, then -1 AC/ +1 THAC0 every six levels.
Those are handled via CLAB, and I can't see how it could possibly glitch.
Right now I can only think about a problem with the export feature...

[sevencreature]

Well, I created approx. four Sword Angels for testing (SoA, so starting level 7), and result were:

first had AC 3 - 3 instances of effect '0' each had AC bonus = 1
second had AC 5 - 1 instance of effect '0'
third had AC 4 - 2 instances of effect '0'
fourth had AC 5 again

all have had DEX 18...

You can check first and (I think) second exported .CREs here: http://havy.wz.cz/swan_cre.zip

P.S. In the kit description isn't anything about -2 AC bonus at creation

Edited by sevencreature, 10 April 2005 - 10:00 AM.

[drake127]

Sorry I forgot to log in.

[Littiz]

You can check first and (I think) second exported .CREs here:

I studied the files a bit and I'm quite confused.
This really seems a problem with the engine: the second CRE was treated as an 18th level character!
Not only the AC bonus is applied three times, but everything is augmented accordingly, including weapon proficiencies!
I'm really clueless here. Besides, all seems perfectly OK with the code (and it's entirely standard stuff, too): you specify the spells in the intended slots in the 2DA, and then let the engine assign them when it's time.
Are you trying this in a "safe" environment? No program in background, or stuff like that? Sorry if I ask, but when everything fails, I can only think about a fault from the engine.
I'll try and consider it furthermore, anyway.

P.S. In the kit description isn't anything about -2 AC bonus at creation

Ah, memory failed me.
It was present in the first implementation, then removed

I am sure that TM 1 has same function as 9. Only difference can be if character dies. Probably these effects would be removed but engine (of your mod) could think that MerFig is still active.

Actually I had to fix it in the past (from 1 to 9), since "1" doesn't seem to stack correctly with items or other effects.
Might not be the case here, though...

Edited by Littiz, 10 April 2005 - 11:05 AM.

[drake127]

I am sure that TM 1 has same function as 9. Only difference can be if character dies. Probably these effects would be removed but engine (of your mod) could think that MerFig is still active.

Actually I had to fix it in the past (from 1 to 9), since "1" doesn't seem to stack correctly with items or other effects.
Might not be the case here, though...

Yes, These TModes behave differently in different effects but I think that problem should not be in this case.
e. g. changing stats - 1 is white, 9 is red. I think trouble is also in setting (not increasing or decresing abilities) like str, dex, ... ,AC, THAC0.

Edited by drake127, 10 April 2005 - 11:22 AM.

[sevencreature]

Hmmm, as I said, strange... That was btw. my first rolled SA (and damn good stats IMO - well, probably best char I've ever rolled ) - it was before Kelsey was installed...

Nonetheless, it took another two trials before correct SA was created - first had AC bonus two times, but other effects were ok...

So I sense some sort of problem here...

Btw. what exactly do these effect (and why are they there?), in LI#SET.SPL :

Unknown Effect (139) (313)

and

"Missile Weapon Damage Bonus" value 3

Why Missile Weapons??

Edited by sevencreature, 11 April 2005 - 01:05 AM.

[Littiz]

Hmmm, as I said, strange... That was btw. my first rolled SA (and damn good stats IMO - well, probably best char I've ever rolled    )

Strange indeed. Still no clue. But I'm quite positive I shouldn't be the cause, this time..

Btw. what exactly do these effect (and why are they there?), in LI#SET.SPL :

Ah, sometimes users shouldn't ask too many questions

Unknown Effect (139) (313)

Prevents Death Field to be pickable as an HLA in case you dual a SA to mage (and if you have the HLA component installed).
The regular Necromantic spells cannot be learned because of the kit's "unusables" combo.

"Missile Weapon Damage Bonus" value 3

I couldn't use the Melee Damage Bonus effect to set the -3 kit malus (crashes the game if you hit negative values - or something... while the generic effect leaves a minimum of 1 damage).
Now, since SA can't use ranged weapons, this isn't much of a point. But it does have an effect in rare circumstances like when a dualled Sword Angel/Mage uses Melf's Meteors. In the end, I decided that the malus shouldn't be applied in such cases, so I countered it

Edited by Littiz, 10 April 2005 - 01:46 PM.

[sevencreature]

Ok. Thanks Littiz

[Littiz]

My pleasure
One advice: if you're playing indeed with a Sword Angel, add to your short list of mods at least Sim's Virtue. It's always a must imho, but particularly in this case

[sevencreature]

Hmmm, isn't 'Virtue' dependent on 'Oversight'? Because I have no intention installing 'Oversight'...

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Hmmm, isn't 'Virtue' dependent on 'Oversight'? Because I have no intention installing 'Oversight'...

No it is not.  Virtue is standalone.

[SimDing0]

You won't get the full benefit of Virtue without Oversight's alignment fixes (yeh, uh, sorry for the chain of dependency here-- Sword Angel is best with Virtue which is best with Oversight). However, they can be installed independently of all the other stuff, so even if you're not interested in everything else Oversight has to offer, the alignment fix component is basically a bugfix and I'd strongly urge installing it.

[sevencreature]

Well, that Oversight's alignment fix (hell, I don't really care what alignments have creators used for in game purposes) creates too much files in override for my taste

Exactly how is Virtue using that new alignment system? Killing of G characters lowers Virtue?

(hmmm, I've just got complete override backup, so I'm probably gonna give it a try )