10 replies to this topic

[Brannin Vael]

I think that it was the original BG1 game that allowed you to do backstab damage while attacking from any quadrant. However it was changed with a patch and/or TotSC. That goes for BG2/ ToB as well of course. Except for some enemies that are scripted to cheat. The rune assasins in the Tanner quest cheat though.

I've never had a problem with the changes as per a thief making a backstab attack and needing to be behind the victim. However only as concerns making the attack while "hiding in shadows" and "moving silently". If your invisible as per the spell, potion, or ring, then it seems logical that the "hiding in shadows" no longer is a factor. Therefore vision no longer being a discovery factor, the thief ought to be able to stand in front of his client with impunity. Only "moving silently" being a factor in possible discovery...or smell, etc.

That being the case. Why then cannot a thief make a front 'backstab' while invisible and as yet undetected by any other sensory means by the intended victim?

Is it feasible to make this an optional component in a thief upgrade? Of course this scripting, or other game change, ought to apply to all thieves in the game if installed.

Anyone have any opinions or thoughts on this? Thanks.

[aVENGER]

While I personally find the idea of 'backstabbing' from any direction while the character is invisible pretty viable, I believe that this is too hardcoded into the game engine for mere modders like myself to change, it would most likely require a programmer's intervention on the game engine itself. BTW, in the current state of things, all player controlled characters (and some other ones defined as 'GOODxxxx') in BG2 must backstab from the rear position while the enemies are excluded from this rule. So, for this exact reason Venduris (from my Chosen of Cyric mod) can 'backstab' from the frontal position (it's not possible to script this otherwise) but Arkanis and his companions that help you in the battle with Bodhi (from the Shadow Thief Improvements mod) can not.

[Brannin Vael]

Thanks for the response and info aVENGER. It looks like it will be sometime in the future when or if ever, the source code is released on this game engine that changes of that type can be done then.

[Longinus]

I think frontal backstabbing was one way for the weakened enemy thieves to become decent opponents. The assassins who spawn as a result of drawing the Guile card from the deck of many things are perfect examples of how effective cheating can be. Of course those assassins have two stars in two weapon style fighting but I won't complain... not in the least.

I feel such encounters should be more frequent in TOB. Perhaps placing a few more skeletal assassins in the Myr forest map, and more thieves in the appropriate quest-related areas would do the trick, as they are far too scarce.

[Keera]

I would say that standing directly in front of an experienced adventurer, even while invisible, in preparation to attacking them, would be a bad idea. Even though their eyes won't perceive you, their senses of hearing and smell could reveal that you are there, as well as that wonderful "6th sense" that lets someone know when they are being watched. All it takes is one suspicious swipe with a weapon, and your done for!

When striking from behind, it's not such a problem - the person is bound to try to spin around before striking, and that gives you time for an attack, even if the target is suddenly aware of an attacker in their personal space.

[Bane]

I think when you get very experienced you can do it from the sides aswell but not the front because they should really be able to see you when you get to close. Also assassins get the high-level ability 'assassination' where they can backstab anywhere! (only for a couple of rounds though)

*Felstorm backstabbed Venturis for 226 damage (critical hit) with double short swords of backstabbing, W00T!

[Bane]

Isnt backstab just targeting vital points though?

yeah but the game designers probably thought you would become too powerful and decided to have it only in the back to increase the difficulty of a successful backstab

[T.G.Maestro]

BG2 allows a 90° backstab radius from the back - this means that you can turn to the side of the victim somewhat.