27 replies to this topic

[Leomar]

We have questions to Weimer's Ascension and want to ask around, what do you think about compatibility problems. We know that some of you have tested Ascension in different ways. We have heard about installations of Ascension before BG2 Fixpack, only some components before BG2 Fixpack, etc. Additional there exist a compatibility issue with Spell Revisions, now (reported here: http://forums.gibber...showtopic=16801).

We install Ascension as an expert-mod after Big Picture (No. 20.03. in the BWP guide) with no support at the moment, but we want to change this, now.

Can someone give us advises about the following things:

For users with or without knowledge of the BWP installorder:
1.) Can we install all Ascension-components before BGT? Which components must we install before BG2 Fixpack and which one after it then and why?

For users with knowledge of the BWP installorder and/or Big Picture:
2.) Can we install all Ascension-components directly before our BWP chapter "19. BG2 RULES, TWEAKS AND SPELLS"?
3.) If we move the whole chapter "19. BG2 RULES, TWEAKS AND SPELLS" after chapter "20. ASCENSION-RELATED MODS" which compatibility issues we can get with the recent BP version and the upcoming BP version?

For the chapter "19. BG2 RULES, TWEAKS AND SPELLS" are these mods of interest to move around:
19.5. Lost Crossroads Spell Pack for Baldur's Gate 2 = SpellPackB5
19.6. Spell-50 v10
19.7. Wild Mage Additions v1.6
19.8. Teleport v12

We hope, that we can get Weimer's Ascension compatible as we can in a megamod and therefore we need informations/ideas and perhaps fixes/patches.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 25 February 2009 - 01:41 AM.

[Lollorian]

YES!!! Plz help get Ascension to the standard install

I dunno but it IS probably the most popular BG2:ToB mod around. But, like Hoppy mentioned, it is a tad difficult to playtest the thing cause the mod content only happens at the end

But yeah ... I'd luv to see this in black in BWP 5.8 (or 6.0??? Cause it'll be a major change?? )

Cheers - Lol

[Steve]

Erebusant is probably the guy that knows best about this.

Ascension is a mostly overwrite mod that will blow away any changes any other mod makes to those files. It also pre-dates the BG2 Fixpack so its script files have errors that the Fixpack would fix. My guess is that the best place in load order for Ascension would be before the Fixpack, and it probably wouldn't break the Fixpack to put it there.

This is of course complete speculation on my part.

[Leomar]

@ Steve

Erebusant is probably the guy that knows best about this.

I know and erebusant installs his revamp of Ascension after SCSI and before the most BG2 mods. But without the revamp version we need another solution. erebusant has his reasons, why he don't release his revamp version and we don't want to bother him about it. We know, that he do many for us gamers and he will release it, when the time comes. But meanwhile we think to get Ascension installable and playable as we can for the gamer.


@ jon-eli

The Fixpack is very robustly written, and makes very few assumptions about the preexisting state of resources... So my own wild speculation would be to put Ascension before Fixpack, but I'll do some digging around today and see if I can find any clashes with that ordering.

Thanks for your help.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 25 February 2009 - 08:46 PM.

[jon-eli]

Okay, so I burned-out about halfway through a cursory look at all the spells Ascension copies over, and cross-referencing with the fixpack tp2. I'll make a couple of comments, but please note that I haven't had even a slight look at the Tougher Battles stuff; I'm speaking only of the main component of Ascension-WeiDU:

(i) It makes very little difference which order the ARE, BCS, CRE, & ITM files are installed in. There are very few of them (ones that overlap, that is), and if Ascension squashes the Fixpack versions, it's no big loss (AFAICT), as the fixes are rather minor (and to a great extent are confined to the modder pack).
(ii) The spells are a different issue altogether. Installing Ascension after Fixpack causes serious demolition of random, important stuff. Not game-breakingly important, I don't think; but you'll lose a lot of the changes made by the immunity-effects part of the Fixpack, and that's a fairly big deal (in QA terms, mind).
(iii) Fixpack has a very good chance of patching Ascension files without breaking anything... as opposed to the absolute certainty of Ascension breaking Fixpack stuff.

All this is completely untested theory... but I'll probably put together a test game at some point (since I've just broken all my clone installs and need to start from scratch). I'll scrounge some more info up and be back. But for now, my tentative conclusion is: At the very least, the main component of Ascension-WeiDU needs to come before Fixpack. Treat Ascension like you do non-WeiDU mods.

Unless one of the many people who are much smarter than I comes along to tell me oh so how wrong I am, then this is my story and I'm sticking to it.

Edited by jon-eli, 26 February 2009 - 12:52 AM.

[jon-eli]

Installing ascension prior to bg2fixpack precipitates no warning or error output from WeiDU. I'll play through ToB with this setup, and report any bugs.

Here's my WeiDU.log:

[codebox]// Log of Currently Installed WeiDU Mods
// The top of the file is the 'oldest' mod
// ~TP2_File~ #language_number #component_number // [Subcomponent Name -> ] Component Name [ : Version]
~SETUP-A6XPPATCH.TP2~ #0 #0 // Correct reporting of experience (EXE patch)
~SETUP-A6XPPATCH.TP2~ #0 #1 // Remove 110% scaling of some experience (EXE patch)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #0 // Ascension v1.41 (requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #1 // Tougher Abazigal (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #2 // Original Tougher Demogorgon (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #3 // Tougher Gromnir (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #4 // Tougher Illasera (optional, requires ToB)
~SETUP-ASCENSION.TP2~ #0 #5 // Tougher Yaga-Shura (optional, requires ToB)
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // BG2 Fixpack - Core Fixes: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #1 // BG2 Fixpack - Game Text Update: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #2 // Super Happy Fun Lucky Modder Pack: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #3 // BETA Core Fixes (please check the readme!): v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #101 // Improved Spell Animations: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #102 // Cromwell's Forging Actually Takes a Day: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #109 // Corrected Summoned Demon Behavior: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #110 // Additional Script Fixes: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #111 // Bard Song Fixes: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #112 // Wizard Slayers Cause Miscast Magic on Ranged Attacks: v7 BWP fix
~BG2FIXPACK/SETUP-BG2FIXPACK.TP2~ #0 #113 // Additional Alignment Fixes: v7 BWP fix
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #0 // One Pixel Productions: v2 Everything but Potions (1): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #1 // One Pixel Productions: v2 New Potion Graphics (2): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #2 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Flaming Swords (3): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #3 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Flame Short Swords (4): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #4 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Flame Short Swords item patches (5): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #6 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Paperdolls (human, half-orc, elven, halfling, dwarves (partially)) (7): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #7 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Legacy Shields - Bucklers (D1) (: v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #8 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Legacy Shields - Small Shields (D2) (9): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #9 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Legacy Shields - Medium Shields (D3) (10): v2.6
~1PP.TP2~ #0 #10 // One Pixel Productions: v3 Colourable Quarterstaves core (11): v2.6
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #0 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female elves w. leather armour [EFB2]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #1 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female elves w. chain mail [EFB3]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #2 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female elven cleric w. plate armour [EFC4]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #3 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female elven fighter w. plate armour [EFF4]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #4 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human unarmoured [HFB1]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #5 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human w. leather armour [HFB2]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #6 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human w. chain mail [HFB3]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #7 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human cleric w. plate mail [HFC4]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #8 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human fighter w. plate mail [HFF4]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #9 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human unarmoured mage [HFW1]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #10 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * female human mage w. light robe [HFW2]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #11 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * fixed halfling progression [IFB1, IFB2, IFB3]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #12 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * dwarves w. chain mail [DMB3]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #13 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * male elves w. chain mail [EMB3]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #14 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * male human w. leather armour [HMB2]
~1PP_AVATARS/SETUP-1PP_AVATARS.TP2~ #0 #15 // 1PP: Avatar fixes * male human w. chain mail [HMB3]
~NPCKIT/SETUP-NPCKIT.TP2~ #0 #30 // Improved Specialist Mage Descriptions
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Kidnapping of Boo by Cliffette: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #3 // "Cat and Mouse" (Bodhi hunts you in Spellhold) by Ghreyfain: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #5 // The Pai'Na/Spider's Bane Quest: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #6 // Restored Crooked Crane Inn: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #7 // Restored Encounters: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #8 // Artemis Entreri in Bodhi's Lair: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #9 // Corrected "Xzar's Creations": v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #10 // Restored Hell Minions, by SimDing0: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #18 // Restored Minor Dialogs: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #20 // Extended ToB Item Descriptions: v18
~SETUP-UB.TP2~ #0 #24 // Sarevok's Remorse: v18
~WHEELS/SETUP-WHEELS.TP2~ #0 #0 // The Wheels of Prophecy: v2
~SETUP-D0QUESTPACK.TP2~ #0 #0 // General AI Improvements: BWP Fix 6.0.6
~SETUP-OVERSIGHT.TP2~ #0 #0 // Tougher Sendai (ToB Required)
~SETUP-OVERSIGHT.TP2~ #0 #2 // Class Tweaks/Fixes
~SETUP-OVERSIGHT.TP2~ #0 #4 // Improved Continuity
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #3 // Proper racial adjustments for thieving skills: v4.03
~RR/SETUP-RR.TP2~ #0 #10 // Revised Thievery -> Retain default thievery potions and prevent their effects from stacking: v4.03
~SETUP-REFINEMENTS.TP2~ #0 #31 // Shapeshifting fix -> Heal on shifting to animal (by Borsook)
~TB#TWEAKS/SETUP-TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #150 // Imprisonment Fix. (v2.10)
~TB#TWEAKS/SETUP-TB#TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #200 // Flesh to Stone Fix. (v2.10)
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #2030 // Iron Skins behaves like Stoneskin (can be brought down by Breach): v8
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #2060 // Revert Greater Restoration back to only affecting one creature: v8
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Weapon Animation Tweaks
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #110 // Icon Improvements
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #130 // Force All Dialogue to Pause Game
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1170 // Bonus Merchants (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #1180 // Female Edwina
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #2210 // True Grandmastery (Baldurdash)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3125 // Neutral Characters Make Happy Comments at Mid-Range Reputation
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #3200 // Sellable Items (Icelus)
~BG2_TWEAKS/SETUP-BG2_TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #4010 // Improved Fate Spirit Summoning
~SETUP-D0TWEAK.TP2~ #0 #15 // Remove Quayle Portrait
~ITEM_REV/ITEM_REV.TP2~ #0 #16 // Restrict Fighter/Druids to Armor that Druids Can Wear: v2
~UNIQUEARTIFACTS/SETUP-UNIQUEARTIFACTS.TP2~ #0 #1 // Unique Artifacts v1.12 -> Strict
~MIXMOD/SETUP-MIXMOD.TP2~ #0 #46 // Helmets for Shapeshifters Bug Fix
~FREEACT/SETUP-FREEACT.TP2~ #0 #10 // PnP Free Action: Beta 1
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #100 // Restore innate infravision to Half-Orc characters: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #101 // Prevent skeletal undead from being affected by Illithids' Devour Brain attack: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #200 // Allow Breach to take down Stoneskin effects applied by items: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #201 // Instant casting for warrior innates: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #202 // Consistently spell-like Bhaalpowers: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #203 // Make druidic shapeshifting uninterruptable: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #204 // Prevent Mislead clones from singing Bard songs: v2.01
~ATWEAKS/SETUP-ATWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #303 // Give Shambling Mounds their proper soundset: v2.01
~P5TWEAKS/SETUP-P5TWEAKS.TP2~ #0 #60 // Increase Spear Range and Damage: v2
~CONTAIN/SETUP-CONTAIN.TP2~ #0 #10 // Unique Containers -> Unique icons and names: Beta 2
~LOCAL/SETUP-LOCAL.TP2~ #0 #0 // Breach doesn't bypass spell-protections
~LOCAL/SETUP-LOCAL.TP2~ #0 #5 // Natural weapons of spirit animals strike with +5 enchantment[/codebox]

This is a very stable setup. I realize it's much smaller than a typical BWP install, but atleast I know that any bugs I come across are solely the result of installing Ascension prior to Fixpack. Some of the listed components have been altered from their out-of-the-box versions (Fixpack in particular), but I promise it's nothing too drastic. Local is my own collection of rubbish, so don't go looking for it.

I'll also attach Fixpack's DEBUG file, in case that happens to be interesting to anyone.

Attached Files

•  SETUP_bg2fixpack.3.DEBUG   746.06K   519 downloads

[jon-eli]

Tougher Illasera works flawlessly.

/edit
As noted elsewhere, Fixpack changes player1.dlg such that Ascension's slayer-change dialogue is squashed, meaning that the slayer forms will no longer upgrade. The change that Fixpack makes is borderline cosmetic, so the easiest solution is just to apply the following patch to soa-dlg.d:

[codebox]--- soa-dlg.d 2008-01-21 10:23:43.125000000 +0930
+++ soa-dlg.d.new 2009-02-27 17:54:49.244000000 +0930
@@ -800,16 +800,6 @@
REPLACE_ACTION_TEXT PIRCOR05
~AddXPObject(Player6,2250)~ ~AddXPObject(Player6,2250) EscapeArea()~

-REPLACE PLAYER1
- IF WEIGHT #8 ~Global("Slayer10","GLOBAL",1)~ THEN BEGIN 27 SAY #55324
- IF ~~ THEN REPLY #55326 DO ~SetGlobal("Slayer10","GLOBAL",0)~ EXIT
- IF ~~ THEN REPLY #55325 DO ~SetGlobal("Slayer10","GLOBAL",2)
- SetGlobalTimer("TheSlayerTimer","GLOBAL",60)
- ReputationInc(-2)
- ApplySpell(Player1,SLAYER_CHANGE_TWO)~ EXIT
- END
-END
-
// removes Desharik XP exploit along with cut41f changes
REPLACE_ACTION_TEXT ~ppdesh~ ~AddXPObject(Player[1-6],38500)~ ~~[/codebox]

//edit
And then apply this patch to setup-bg2fixpack.tp2:

[codebox]--- setup-bg2fixpack.tp2 2009-02-20 10:23:08.411800000 +0930
+++ setup-bg2fixpack.tp2.new 2009-02-27 17:06:10.339000000 +0930
@@ -1997,6 +1997,24 @@

END

+ACTION_IF NOT FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~ravager.cre~ THEN BEGIN
+
+ <<<<<<<<inlined/slaydlg.d
+ REPLACE PLAYER1
+ IF WEIGHT #8 ~Global("Slayer10","GLOBAL",1)~ THEN BEGIN 27 SAY #55324
+ IF ~~ THEN REPLY #55326 DO ~SetGlobal("Slayer10","GLOBAL",0)~ EXIT
+ IF ~~ THEN REPLY #55325 DO ~SetGlobal("Slayer10","GLOBAL",2)
+ SetGlobalTimer("TheSlayerTimer","GLOBAL",60)
+ ReputationInc(-2)
+ ApplySpell(Player1,SLAYER_CHANGE_TWO)~ EXIT
+ END
+ END
+ >>>>>>>>
+
+ COMPILE ~inlined/slaydlg.d~
+
+END
+
///// \\\\\
///// dialogue fixes \\\\\
///// \\\\\[/codebox]

This way, Fixpack's behaviour will only change if Ascension is installed.

///edit
Yeah, I've tested this now, and it works. Yay.

Edited by jon-eli, 27 February 2009 - 02:04 AM.

[Leomar]

Thank you very much for your reports.

Installing ascension prior to bg2fixpack precipitates no warning or error output from WeiDU. I'll play through ToB with this setup, and report any bugs.

Have you tried to install all Ascension-components directly after BG2 Fixpack?



Before I forget, we have two fixes for Ascension in the BiG World Fixpack:

:: Ascension v1.4.23
:: DavidW's Yaga-Shura fix - finyaga.bcs - http://forums.pocket...25068.msg309867
:: DavidW's Lieutenant Thief darts of stunning fix - yaga05.cre
http://forums.pocket...=8453.msg310288

Greetings Leomar

[jon-eli]

Have you tried to install all Ascension-components directly after BG2 Fixpack?

Yeah... and Ascension does a massive copy-paste job into the override. Copy-pasting doesn't create install-time errors... it creates runtime errors. I'm starting to think that Ascension-WeiDU deserves it's WeiDU status removed. (Ascension-IAP...! Hehe.)

The only really big problem with installing Ascension before Fixpack, is probably the slayer-change dialogue. And that's easily avoided by a couple of small patches to soa-dlg.d and setup-bg2fixpack.tp2.

/edit
What I've completely omitted to mention this whole time (because I forgot), is that Nythrun's effect-reindexing code gets run inbetween every invocation of WeiDU. I don't know... perhaps this has some kind of bearing on something? I know it cleans Ascension files up a little bit. Maybe there were swaths of errors messages I was never exposed to...

Edited by jon-eli, 27 February 2009 - 02:35 AM.

[jon-eli]

Oh, and to answer your other question...: I've found at least one clash that arises when Ascension is installed before BGT. Namely, there is an unimportant REPLACE_BCS_BLOCK that will choke, fail, and die. It's unlikely to be an isolated case, either. I'll work on some kind of solution.

/edit
Okay, so it's less of a problem than I first thought. This patch will remove the only part of BGT that conflicts with the main component of Ascension:

[codebox]--- Setup-BGT.tp2 2009-01-01 12:52:13.828125000 +0930
+++ Setup-BGT.tp2.new 2009-02-27 19:57:35.757000000 +0930
@@ -2663,10 +2663,6 @@
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~SetGloxbal("TurnDay","AR4000",1)~ ~SetGlobal("TurnDay","AR4000",1)~
COMPILE_BAF_TO_BCS

-//BGT Credits
-COPY_EXISTING ~AR6200.BCS~ ~override~
- REPLACE_BCS_BLOCK ~BGT/Modify/Replace/rAR6200.BAF~ ~BGT/Modify/Replace/xAR6200.BAF~
-
COPY_EXISTING ~BEAR.BCS~ ~override~
REPLACE_BCS_BLOCK ~BGT/Modify/Replace/rBEAR.BAF~ ~BGT/Modify/Replace/xBEAR.BAF~[/codebox]

Edited by jon-eli, 27 February 2009 - 02:34 AM.

[Leomar]

Thanks again for your help.

With the fixes you recommend to install Ascension as follows:

- All Ascension components
- BG2 Fixpack
- BGT

Because otherwise (Ascension after BG2 Fixpack or after BGT) we will run into much more problems.
Is that right?

Greetings Leomar

[jon-eli]

With the fixes you recommend to install Ascension as follows:

- All Ascension components
- BG2 Fixpack
- BGT

Correct.

I'm not aware of any part of Ascension that is outright broken by Fixpack, other than what I've addressed. There are likely a few things I'm missing... but I suspect they'll be very minor. And truly, when thinking about megamod installs, it has to be accepted that short of every mod author writing compatibility code for every other mod on earth, there will always be minor conflicts between this, that, and this other thing. If you install Ascension, followed by Fixpack, followed by BGT, then Ascension will be playable and mostly bug-free, Fixpack will actually fix stuff, and BGT should have no reason to complain.

The patches I suggest are basically just a hack that could be written much more elegantly. It's the kind of stuff I do on my own installs just to get things to work. Those patches do the job, but they don't really address the underlying issues... indeed, they shouldn't even be necessary in the first place. The Ascension installation process is crappily written; what's really needed is for erebusant to overhaul everything, make it more patchy, less overwritey, and more aware of the existence of a certain G3 BG2 Fixpack... and then Ascension can take its rightful place and be installed *after* Fixpack, and stop giving everyone such a headache. I'm tempted to do it myself, but we all know how it is... as soon as I get halfway through rewriting Ascension, erebusant will upload his local changes and I'll have to hit the delete key over and over again and kiss all my hard work goodbye.

I don't mean to whine so much, but Ascension is such a great mod, and it sucks serious ass that it's been so neglected.

/edit
And tell Leonardo that I learned everything I know about batch scripting from BWP Fixpack. It's beautifully written.

Edited by jon-eli, 28 February 2009 - 02:35 AM.

[DeusEx]

It's been a while but if I remember correctly installing Ascension before fixpack will prevent you from installing Turnabout (at its current place in BWP) because it thinks Ascension was not installed .

[jon-eli]

It's been a while but if I remember correctly installing Ascension before fixpack will prevent you from installing Turnabout (at its current place in BWP) because it thinks Ascension was not installed .

Turnabout checks for the existence of FINBODH.dlg, which exists in the override regardless of install order. Everything installed correctly in my case. I don't know what permutations that mod has gone through (perhaps a problem existed with an older version), but in its current incarnation, Turnabout doesn't complain about anything at all.

[erebusant]

With the fixes you recommend to install Ascension as follows:

- All Ascension components
- BG2 Fixpack
- BGT

Correct.

I'm not aware of any part of Ascension that is outright broken by Fixpack, other than what I've addressed. There are likely a few things I'm missing... but I suspect they'll be very minor. And truly, when thinking about megamod installs, it has to be accepted that short of every mod author writing compatibility code for every other mod on earth, there will always be minor conflicts between this, that, and this other thing. If you install Ascension, followed by Fixpack, followed by BGT, then Ascension will be playable and mostly bug-free, Fixpack will actually fix stuff, and BGT should have no reason to complain.

The patches I suggest are basically just a hack that could be written much more elegantly. It's the kind of stuff I do on my own installs just to get things to work. Those patches do the job, but they don't really address the underlying issues... indeed, they shouldn't even be necessary in the first place. The Ascension installation process is crappily written; what's really needed is for erebusant to overhaul everything, make it more patchy, less overwritey, and more aware of the existence of a certain G3 BG2 Fixpack... and then Ascension can take its rightful place and be installed *after* Fixpack, and stop giving everyone such a headache. I'm tempted to do it myself, but we all know how it is... as soon as I get halfway through rewriting Ascension, erebusant will upload his local changes and I'll have to hit the delete key over and over again and kiss all my hard work goodbye.

I don't mean to whine so much, but Ascension is such a great mod, and it sucks serious ass that it's been so neglected.

/edit
And tell Leonardo that I learned everything I know about batch scripting from BWP Fixpack. It's beautifully written.

The Ascension revamp could be released at anytime, however it is a requirement of Jason Compton's that it be fully installed and tested in a installation with Redemption and Longer Road which I've never gotten around to since I've been tied up with the BG1 mods I'm maintaining, and I don't normally install either of those mods in my installations anyway. That's where Ascension stands currently.

[Jarno Mikkola]

The Ascension revamp could be released at anytime, however it is a requirement of Jason Compton's that it be fully installed and tested in a installation with Redemption and Longer Road which I've never gotten around to since I've been tied up with the BG1 mods I'm maintaining, and I don't normally install either of those mods in my installations anyway. That's where Ascension stands currently.

So that means that either you or jcompton has all the files, and you are 'requesting for assistance' on the testing it? If it's so, I am sure there are people ready to line up for beta testing, if you just post how to get the files(PM? Topic for the assigning or somehow else)...
I can't just now, but that shouldn't be a news.

[jon-eli]

So that means that either you or jcompton has all the files, and you are 'requesting for assistance' on the testing it? If it's so, I am sure there are people ready to line up for beta testing, if you just post how to get the files(PM? Topic for the assigning or somehow else)...
I can't just now, but that shouldn't be a news.

It sounded rather more as if he needed to test it himself. It seems a decision has been made that it's better for the majority of users to suffer the current version, so that the fractional number of people running LR and Redemption can be totally, absolutely, and completely sure that the new version won't funk with their installs (which, let's take a guess: it won't). And honestly, if bug-free software is the prescription, then release early, and release often. Beta testers exist for a reason.

[jcompton]

The Ascension revamp could be released at anytime, however it is a requirement of Jason Compton's that it be fully installed and tested in a installation with Redemption and Longer Road

Did I actually say that? I wasn't aware I had been experimenting with narcotics.

All I can find in our PM chain is me saying "Before I went ahead and updated the Ascension DL I'd like to see the thing get some testing first, maybe we can run a public beta or something like that."

Maybe I really did say something to the effect that if you're going to update Ascension you really probably shouldn't break the mods which depend upon it (which is true, because that would be less value to players than a currently flawed Ascension which basically works for most people).

But it makes me sound downright uncharitable, the way you put it...

Update: Ah, here we go.

"Also, you might consider testing against the Ascension-dependent mods out there, such as Kelsey-TOB, Turnabout, and (yeah, even) Redemption, so that if it's going to create a problem we can be aware of it and decide what to do."

Which is still a good idea.

Whew.

Until/unless there's some reasonable assurance that your changes aren't going to break other dependent mods (whose creators never really expected someone to make wholesale Ascension changes) then I'd only list a new version as a "public beta."

It sounded rather more as if he needed to test it himself.

That seems even less likely.

Edited by jcompton, 02 March 2009 - 06:43 AM.

[Dakk]

So we could expect a release of a public beta? With like feedback, and actual non-local bugfixing?