85 replies to this topic

[Tancred]

I imagined that Irenicus gained control of Spellhold and that is when the dreams began, he was working out of his evil little sanitarium like every decent mad scientist and putting all sorts of disturbing thoughts into CHARs head. Sort of like Freddy, only much cuter

Ah, but the dreams don't end until you're in Spellhold dungeon, and you recieve the last dream after becoming the Slayer. By that time, Irenicus has left you for dead, and is expecting Bodhi to finish you off. Seems a little overzealous of him to continue throwing bad vibes at you after he's got what he wants...

[Andyr]

Does the "I have grown to appreciate what it can offer line" imply that he has had dreams?

Good point - a very good point! You guys gave me quite a few things to think about - I may post some sketches of the dialogs between PC and Jon and they trod through ToB next week ...

So, please continue to throw this fantastic ideas.

I would suggest that Irenicus would've faced tests, tests to see if he was a suitable candidate for Bhaalspawn-dom (as that's what your basically were, to see how the taint affects your character). I guess he would've taken an evil option, fairly obviously. B)

As that area is partially formed by your own consciousness, however, I'd say perhaps Irenicus' tests would have been slightly different from yours?

[The Amazing Maurice]

I guess he would've taken an evil option, fairly obviously.

Ah, but would he? For instance the test with the beholder kin and cloak stitched from the skin of Nymphs. Would he have taken the cowards way out or gone in there and kicked the beholders collective arse? IMO he would do the latter out of his own pride.
So maybe he passed some good tests almost unwittingly.

A line from Sarevok in hell.

PC. "What are you talking about?! All I have done is been subjected to a series of strange tests!"

Sarevok."Hmph. You are testing yourself, if that is the case. The mage holds power here too, fool; he is influencing this place just as you, and you use the tests to find him."

So i think that means Ireniucus *has* had the tests.....

[C'est Nedra]

[quote name='Tancred' date='Aug 8 2003, 10:51 PM'] [quote name='C'est Nedra' date='Aug 8 2003, 09:30 PM'] I imagined that Irenicus gained control of Spellhold and that is when the dreams began, he was working out of his evil little sanitarium like every decent mad scientist and putting all sorts of disturbing thoughts into CHARs head. Sort of like Freddy, only much cuter [/QUOTE]
Ah, but the dreams don't end until you're in Spellhold dungeon, and you recieve the last dream after becoming the Slayer. By that time, Irenicus has left you for dead, and is expecting Bodhi to finish you off. Seems a little overzealous of him to continue throwing bad vibes at you after he's got what he wants... [/quote]
[quote name='C'est Nedra' date='Aug 8 2003, 09:30 PM'] I imagined that Irenicus gained control of Spellhold and that is when the dreams began, he was working out of his evil little sanitarium like every decent mad scientist and putting all sorts of disturbing thoughts into CHARs head. Sort of like Freddy, only much cuter [/QUOTE]
Ah, but the dreams don't end until you're in Spellhold dungeon, and you recieve the last dream after becoming the Slayer. By that time, Irenicus has left you for dead, and is expecting Bodhi to finish you off. Seems a little overzealous of him to continue throwing bad vibes at you after he's got what he wants...[/QUOTE]


Yes but if you notice, the dreams after spellhold [I believe, not 100% sure] do not have Irenicus in them. I thought of it as the dreams after Spellhold have more to do with the taint, and then Ellesime comes in them...the elves seem to like hopping in people's heads

[Andyr]

I guess he would've taken an evil option, fairly obviously.

Ah, but would he? For instance the test with the beholder kin and cloak stitched from the skin of Nymphs. Would he have taken the cowards way out or gone in there and kicked the beholders collective arse? IMO he would do the latter out of his own pride.
So maybe he passed some good tests almost unwittingly.

Perhaps his tests were different to the PC's, though- a test for Fear though not necessarily involving beholders and nymphs.

In any case, clearly the best thing to do is take the cloak then walk around the back of the beholders so you don't even need to fight them. B)

[Tancred]

I guess he would've taken an evil option, fairly obviously.

Ah, but would he? For instance the test with the beholder kin and cloak stitched from the skin of Nymphs. Would he have taken the cowards way out or gone in there and kicked the beholders collective arse? IMO he would do the latter out of his own pride.
So maybe he passed some good tests almost unwittingly.

Perhaps his tests were different to the PC's, though- a test for Fear though not necessarily involving beholders and nymphs.

In any case, clearly the best thing to do is take the cloak then walk around the back of the beholders so you don't even need to fight them. B)

They would have to be different, definitely.

SAREVOK: You're pathetic! Become the Slayer and kick my ass!

IRENICUS: I have no reason to hate you.

SAREVOK: I killed Gorion!

IRENICUS: So?

***

GREED: Here, have a magic sword. It's the only way you'll defeat this Genie.

IRENICUS: Rubbish.

*kills Genie*

***

SELFISHNESS: Choose! Your own life or one of your companions!

IRENICUS: Which companion did you have in mind?

SELFISHNESS: Er...

***

Not much of a test, these three...

[Andyr]

Lol, yes.

[The Amazing Maurice]

[Sphira]

Twistingly cute, Tancred!

Inspired me... I suppose it should be for a new thread but I already started one post moments before posting this. Just suggestions (serious!) on what the themes could of foused on for Irenicus' tests in hell.


-Fear: Dealing with death.
-Selfishness: I guess the simple answer would be a test dealing with the tree of life.
-Greed: Perhaps something that deals with Bodhi? Despite what the game says, Irenicus never struck me as an ?Adam' to Bodhi's 'Eve'.
-Pride: A show down with or a lamination from Elle?
-Wraith: Dealing with the elven gods or dealing with CharName though the PC?s tests never have Irenicus in them. I really don't have a clue for this one.

[Sphira]

Well, greed and selfishness are pretty much the same thing. Both test fit both themes.

[Jinnai]

Actually for greed maybe test by givining a chance to get the power of Bhaal he once sought from the pc.

[El Diablo]

i believe that durning your stay at the first dungeon irenicus "planted" certian motions and ideas into your mind which combined with a bit of trauma and the bhaal taint results in the dreams
also i like to piont out that it is actually a D&D rule that bhaal spawn have nightmares quiet often

Can you point me out to this reference? So, the spawns of Bhaal have nightmares. Hmm... are they defines as a sub-class then? Like half-fiends or something? This is the first time I hear of spawns being mentioned outside the game actually.

bhaal spawn are a template from what i know i found it in a an index of templates
the bhaalspawn template seems to have been noted in dragon magazine 288 on page 100 acording to the document.
3rd ed
[I]Bhaalspawn a creature infused with a spark of the deity of murder's evil
rules:the creature becomes an outsider and gains +1 natural armor and +2 to CR
recieves advantages and penalties equel to 1/2HD+1 (min 2 max 11)
advantages:bull's strength 3/day, darkness 3/day, death knel 3/day, endurance 3/day, cure moderate wounds 3/day, scare 3/day, cold resistance 5, fire resistance 5, damage reduction 5/silver, immune to poison
[I] now for the more complex ones
[I]heals 3hp per hour as long as your hp is at least 1
holy smite(if good) or unholy blight(if evil) 1/day
no longer takes penalties from aging and gains a +10 bonus on save vs. death
can turn his or her own blood into deathblade poison 1/day
able to take the form of 'The Slayer' as a standard action: gains +6 natural armor +8 to strength and a 1D10 claw attack but he/she suffers 1 con damage each round
penalties:
reckless: when your hp is below 50% of its maximum he/she recieves a -1 morale penalty on attack and AC until restored above 50%
blood thirsty: must make a will save vs. DC20 to do subdual damage or not attack the maximum number of opponents
at 0 hp or less the bhaalspawn goes into a coma until his hp is brought above 50%
loose 2 points of wisdom (permanent)
loose 2 point of charisma (permanent)
demon's blood: blood is dark ichor, if the bhaalspawn is bleeding it can be smelled by evil outsiders
undead within 60' are always aware of the bhaalspawns location
infernal temper: becomes more hostile if taunted, humiliated or misses a skill roll by more then 5. the bhaalspawn must make a will save vs. DC(10+the amount the skill role was missed by) or recieve a -1 morale penalty on all skill checks until he succeeds a skill roll by more than 5
must murder someone who is not hostile to the bhaalspawn every 13 days or loose 1 wisdom per day until the murder is completed (at which the lost points are returned)
nightmares: each time the bhaalspawn rests, he/she must make a will save vs. dc 10 + per day the nightmares were resisted. on failure roll a d4 to determine the effect until next rest 1) -2 morale penaty on attacks 2) -1 morale penalty on saves 3) no natural healing durning rest 4) no effect
everyone who meets the bhaalspawn innitialy distrusts him
the bhaal spawn is treated as evil by all spells and effects (including holy weapons). if actualy evil the bhaalspawn takes damage from holy water.
[I]
and that was all of it

[Moridin]

Well... now that's interesting.

advantages:bull's strength 3/day, darkness 3/day, death knel 3/day, endurance 3/day, cure moderate wounds 3/day, scare 3/day, cold resistance 5, fire resistance 5, damage reduction 5/silver, immune to poison 

Holy Schlamoly.

loose 2 points of wisdom (permanent)
loose 2 point of charisma (permanent)

Now... that's interesting... Recall if you pass one of the Hell tests using the "Good" path, you get a BONUS of +2 in those two stats. Interesting, no?

As for the rest... Ehh, Too many rules to remember. I'd never use it. Though some of them do seem conducive to the growth that we've had for our CHARNAME's. That is to say,

BG1- Wide-eyed, and naive.
BG2- Arrogance from a mountaintop.
ToB- Not arrogant. Just really, really, powerful.

[Andyr]

As El Diable said that is the 3E stuff: The 2e Villain's Lorebook says that Children of Bhaal have max HP and INT for a creature of their type- there may have been more rules for them, I don't know, that's all that's mentioned in that particular paragraph.

[El Diablo]

Well... now that's interesting.

advantages:bull's strength 3/day, darkness 3/day, death knel 3/day, endurance 3/day, cure moderate wounds 3/day, scare 3/day, cold resistance 5, fire resistance 5, damage reduction 5/silver, immune to poison 

Holy Schlamoly.

remeber you choose (or get not certian) one of these you dont get them all
so you could for instance get bull strength 3/day and fire resistance 5 but not the rest

[Tancred]

-Fear: Dealing with death.
-Selfishness: I guess the simple answer would be a test dealing with the tree of life.
-Greed: Perhaps something that deals with Bodhi? Despite what the game says, Irenicus never struck me as an ?Adam' to Bodhi's 'Eve'.
-Pride: A show down with or a lamination from Elle?
-Wraith: Dealing with the elven gods or dealing with CharName though the PC?s tests never have Irenicus in them. I really don't have a clue for this one.

My own take on this...

Pride: Irenicus is offered the chance to take it all back; become the Elf he was before he tried to destroy the tree, the Elf who loves Ellesime, the Elf respected by his peers and his lessers alike for his skills, the Elf who lives a life in Suldanesselar.

What would be your choice? Give up your quest for godhood, let go of your hate and turn the clock back? Or stay committed to vengeance, sworn to pay back those who cast you out? After all, turning back time gives them no opportunity to apologise.

Wrath: Demin - the elven priestess who was party to Irenicus' curse - speaks to Jon, reminding him of the fact that he has lost again - that this time, there is no mere exile, but true death, an eternity of torment in the Abyss. The Seldarine have determined Irenicus is no longer strong enough in their eyes to merit redemption: he is no threat, and his punishment is meaningless now. Even now the Elves are preparing Jon's body for death.

Would you hold on to logic, knowing Demin cannot be there, knowing that what she says is untrue, and fight it with your own power? Or grow so angry that, to show the Seldarine how 'weak' you are, you draw upon the Slayer?

Can't think of the other two.

[Andyr]

Selfishness: Irenicus could have a choice between power for himself at the cost of all Suldanesselar and Bodhi's death, or losing his power? Though I guess that'd be similar to Pride.

Ack, this is hard.

[Tancred]

Selfishness: Irenicus could have a choice between power for himself at the cost of all Suldanesselar and Bodhi's death, or losing his power?

... oooo, no. Nothing like that. He's already made that choice. I don't think he FEELS anything for Bodhi; he trusts her to help him out because she's in the same boat as he is, and she's a powerful little thing to have around, but I don't think he has any brotherly affection. He must know that to gain entrance to Suldanesselar you slew Bodhi, but doesn't mention it at all...