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BGT install process: room for more optimization?


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#1 Azazello

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:39 PM

I was reading this thread with much interest...
http://www.shsforums...-unused-in-bg2/

{btw, Hurricane, excellent work! Glad to see another 'modder-of-mods' showing his mad skilz in such great fashion. When are you gonna officially register an account?}

...and it got me thinking: maybe there's room for more optimization.


Since its early days, I wondered why folders BGT\Base and the BGT\Modify existed, because if you read the DevDoc, it repeatedly states that the files in those folders are modified (created?) by setup-BGT.TP2. Are the files touched a second time by TP2, or the code to touch them the first time is in there but not used afterwards?

I'm not criticizing this. I can understand that it's easier to have the modified files at-hand, ready-to-use, than processing them again in each player's install. Plus back in the good-ole-days, pc processor power was a bottleneck. I also can imagine that it prevented the headache of user-error reports, if they were missing some important files in their base install, then BGT had those files ready.


Now having read Hurricane's thread, perhaps it's time to reconsider: having all the file modifications done by TP2-patching—pull the original files direct from the BG1 install, modify on-the-run from the TP2 code.

This way, coders can see/confirm the modifications done to the files, update them in-future if we discover better changes, and add new code for extra features. Both BGT\Base and the BGT\Modify (and other redundant folders) could be deleted, saving a nice bit of chump-change in storage (every less megabyte helps when downloading…).

We could probably do some optimizing of PreSetup.bat and EndSetup.bat too.

Thoughts?

Edited by Azazello, 04 January 2012 - 11:41 PM.

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#2 Ascension64

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 01:05 AM

I can't pull everything from BG1 because certain resources are drastically changed. The process of pulling is actually more cumbersome, hence things like EasyTutu just having all the files right there and ready to go.
In fact, the major bottleneck in the BGT installation is the tileset conversion part. If size wasn't a problem and we were allowed to, the old BGT way of just dumping a 700 MB download in the override folder would have sufficed.

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#3 Kaeloree

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:17 AM

What's the problem with doing that, exactly? I mean, people have the bandwidth these days?

#4 Azazello

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:56 AM

@A64: Don't need to tell me more--if you say it can't/shouldn't be done, that's good enough for me.


But can you give an example, something simple, that can shows what you mean?

The reason I ask is because of something I meant to post in the first post:

I'm in NO WAY suggesting Ascension64 has to do all the work of optimizing.

We got enough Big Brains who can and hopefully would be willing to chop the code.

People like me could assist in proofreading, testing, etc.

You could just orchestrate for a lofty post. :lol:

#5 Ascension64

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

One major problem is dialogues. I can't just extract, decompile and recompile without converting BGT into a Tutu, where you cannot access BG2, or BG2 NPCs become broken. That's why all dialogues are in a base/d_bg1 directory.
All areas need renaming and to preserve the currernt entrance names (which some people don't like), I would have to go and patch modify every single area separately.
StrRefs needs updating for all items, cre, are, etc.
Just to name a few.
At the end of the day, it is far easier and quicker just to copy them over then to copy and patch like a mad knitter.

What's the problem with doing that, exactly? I mean, people have the bandwidth these days?

As strange as it can be, some people still have ancient modes of Internet access, or none at all maybe, and may have to go to internet cafes just to download stuff. Technology follows the money...
Anyway, BioWare could get mad if I let people play BG1 in the BG2 engine, without requiring the player to own BG1.

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Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)


#6 Kaeloree

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:06 PM

Anyway, BioWare could get mad if I let people play BG1 in the BG2 engine, without requiring the player to own BG1.

Yeah, this is an excellent point.

Thanks for the explanation behind your thinking :)

#7 Azazello

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 08:07 AM

Thank you, as well. As always.

Anyway, BioWare could get mad if I let people play BG1 in the BG2 engine, without requiring the player to own BG1.

Agreed.
In fact, my premise was that BGT would pull all needed files from the player's mandatory BG1 install.

So I understand your explanation: a few extra megabytes in the mod package far outways the overhead, extra time to process all the files on-the-fly.


What's the problem with doing that, exactly? I mean, people have the bandwidth these days?

As strange as it can be, some people still have ancient modes of Internet access, or none at all maybe, and may have to go to internet cafes just to download stuff. Technology follows the money...

Having had the privilege to have lived in a country less developed than the U.S., and in another MORE developed, I can safely say that this is more true--in all 3 countries--than people realize or want to believe.

#8 -Hurricane-

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:20 PM

I was reading this thread with much interest...
http://www.shsforums...-unused-in-bg2/

{btw, Hurricane, excellent work! Glad to see another 'modder-of-mods' showing his mad skilz in such great fashion. When are you gonna officially register an account?}


Thanks pal, I really appreciate your kind words. :)
BTW, the reason I haven't registered yet is because I tried to, but apparently the name "Hurricane" is already taken by another member. Anyway, that will not keep me from making contributions. :)

#9 Ascension64

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 02:55 PM

That explains why my PMs never got answered, I've been sending them to the wrong person. :D

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Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU and Mods
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Contributions: (NWN2) A Deathstalker (voice acting) - (IWD2) IWD2 NPC Project (soundset editing) - (Misc) SHS PC Soundsets (voice acting)
Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)


#10 Dakk

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 06:29 PM

BTW, the reason I haven't registered yet is because I tried to, but apparently the name "Hurricane" is already taken by another member.

Just register as Mr. Hurricane, damnit! :lol: ^_^

Edited by Dakk, 07 January 2012 - 06:29 PM.


#11 Azazello

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:12 PM

BTW, the reason I haven't registered yet is because I tried to, but apparently the name "Hurricane" is already taken by another member.

Just register as Mr. Hurricane, damnit! :lol: ^_^

also, how's about...
The Hurricane
realHurricane

#12 -Guest-

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:30 PM


BTW, the reason I haven't registered yet is because I tried to, but apparently the name "Hurricane" is already taken by another member.

Just register as Mr. Hurricane, damnit! :lol: ^_^

also, how's about...
The Hurricane
realHurricane

...hurricane jr? The Mighty Mighty Hurricane!

#13 William Imm

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 01:38 PM



BTW, the reason I haven't registered yet is because I tried to, but apparently the name "Hurricane" is already taken by another member.

Just register as Mr. Hurricane, damnit! :lol: ^_^

also, how's about...
The Hurricane
realHurricane

...hurricane jr? The Mighty Mighty Hurricane!

How about Katrina? Alex Full? Typhoon?
At this point, I'm not really doing much Baldur's Gate related. More focused on Skyrim modding and the Born of Legend tabletop roleplaying game. Don't expect much activity here.

#14 Lisandro

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Posted 08 January 2012 - 05:53 PM

ha ha ha or Tornado... !

or bad water!

or say it in spanish "huracán"

Edited by Lisandro, 08 January 2012 - 05:57 PM.


#15 Azazello

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 01:26 AM

ok gang, ok, we've all had some fun. I think aka -Hurricane- has gotten the message...

Let's return to the original topic...

Assuming there's anything more to discuss.

#16 -Hurricane-

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:35 AM

Peer pressure be damned!

>> IRC status message: former guest Hurricane is now known as registered user Hurricane

I'm absent for merely 3 days, just to return and discover that this topic has become entirely about me - yay! :lol: I feel my vanity creeping up on me. :D

As for the name, I finally decided to use the variant that you can see now. Personally I don't care for the hyphens, they just made it possible to register. At least they connect to my previous activities as a guest around here.
Your suggestions weren't bad either. :) I liked "The Mighty Mighty Hurricane" best, and you may address me this way any time you like. :D

That explains why my PMs never got answered, I've been sending them to the wrong person. :D

Hilarious! :D Now I'm actually curious as to what messages I missed while not knowing that I did so. :lol:

After all, now I do feel like I should have registered earlier. :whistling:

#17 Ascension64

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 02:08 PM

A whole bunch of 'could you translate these'...

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Note: I do not respond to profile comments/personal messages in regards to troubleshooting my modifications. Please post on the public forums instead.

Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU and Mods
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Contributions: (NWN2) A Deathstalker (voice acting) - (IWD2) IWD2 NPC Project (soundset editing) - (Misc) SHS PC Soundsets (voice acting)
Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)