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My thoughts on BG:EE


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#21 Mad Mate

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 04:33 PM

Cuv, thank you for nfo. This is what I wanted to hear about BG:EE. Now, I think about buying it.
I don't know how much you are allowed to say but I have 3 questions:

1. What stuff are now being externalized?
2. Will it be too hard to convert existing mods into BG:EE?

And last one, hehe, when are we gone see some new mods from you? :-)

#22 KIrving

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:00 PM

Cuv, thank you for nfo. This is what I wanted to hear about BG:EE. Now, I think about buying it.
I don't know how much you are allowed to say but I have 3 questions:

1. What stuff are now being externalized?
2. Will it be too hard to convert existing mods into BG:EE?

And last one, hehe, when are we gone see some new mods from you? :-)

Return to Windspear!! Probably not going to happen but I can dream. :)

Edited by KIrving, 01 December 2012 - 07:02 PM.

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#23 Lollorian

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 07:14 PM

Return to Windspear!! Probably not going to happen but I can dream. :)

We can always have Cuv's Enhanced BG cutscenes for BGT/Tutu :D Seriously though, nice job with those! :)

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#24 -Dubh-

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 08:26 PM

You end the game with over 2 thousands mostly sentient creatures killed, how is that for morality? The quote simply doesn't fit with the tone of the game. It's all about being at odds your with internal demons, and you aren't in BG1 unless you count being narrated to in dreams -- and it's not really internal demons, but your nature as a Bhaalspawn. BG2 certainly makes that struggle more relevant, but in BG1 it isn't. Being an evil character or being born of evil doesn't have anything to do with Nietzsche's quote.


I roleplayed my character as being at odds with herself, thus the quote is relevant for me. And yes, you do end the game with an obscene kill count - you cannot be truly moral no matter what you do because of the circumstances of the PC's heritage. The PC becomes a monster by fighting monsters. Bhallspawn nature = personal demons. Your opinion is obviously different and that's fine, I'm not trying to convert you to my viewpoint; I'm just explaining my own reasons for liking the quote being in the game.

#25 begolf00

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Posted 01 December 2012 - 10:59 PM

@Dubh

Agreed!

You end the game with over 2 thousands mostly sentient creatures killed, how is that for morality? The quote simply doesn't fit with the tone of the game. It's all about being at odds your with internal demons, and you aren't in BG1 unless you count being narrated to in dreams -- and it's not really internal demons, but your nature as a Bhaalspawn. BG2 certainly makes that struggle more relevant, but in BG1 it isn't. Being an evil character or being born of evil doesn't have anything to do with Nietzsche's quote.


I roleplayed my character as being at odds with herself, thus the quote is relevant for me.  And yes, you do end the game with an obscene kill count - you cannot be truly moral no matter what you do because of the circumstances of the PC's heritage.  The PC becomes a monster by fighting monsters.  Bhallspawn nature = personal demons.  Your opinion is obviously different and that's fine, I'm not trying to convert you to my viewpoint; I'm just explaining my own reasons for liking the quote being in the game.



#26 aqrit

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 01:39 AM

Why did they redo the movies?

Too lazy to port the code... or just to save on file size?


#27 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:31 AM

Why did they redo the movies?
Too lazy to port the code... or just to save on file size?

The resolution... you can't get a good quality 1920x1200 video from a 640x480

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#28 Eleima

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:01 AM


How is it not relevant?!?! I just under the impression that it referred quite directly to the Bhaal essence.


"He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster...when you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you." (or something equivalent - going off of memory here)

Are you thinking of Alaundo's Bhaalspawn prophecy?

"The Lord of Murder shall perish...but in his doom he shall spawn a score of mortal progeny...Chaos shall be sewn from their passage; so sayeth the wise Alaundo." (also off of memory)

(edit) The difference, of course, being that Frederick Nietzsche was a real philosopher, (or whatever), and Alaundo was a D&D (and Candlekeep?)-based seer...

You're confusing Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2. The quote at the beginning of BG1 was the Nietzsche quote, "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." The Alaundo quote is from the intro to BG2:SoA and would've been majorly spoilerly had it been in BG1's intro.
I guess I should temper what I wrote, I thought it referred indirectly to the Bhaal essence. The quote warns of the dangers of becoming what you fight against, and thus of becoming the essence of murder and chaos just as you fight to resist it. That's what I took away from it, in this context, at least.

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#29 Bartimaeus

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 09:33 AM

You're confusing Baldur's Gate 1 and Baldur's Gate 2. The quote at the beginning of BG1 was the Nietzsche quote, "He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." The Alaundo quote is from the intro to BG2:SoA and would've been majorly spoilerly had it been in BG1's intro.
I guess I should temper what I wrote, I thought it referred indirectly to the Bhaal essence. The quote warns of the dangers of becoming what you fight against, and thus of becoming the essence of murder and chaos just as you fight to resist it. That's what I took away from it, in this context, at least.


See, when you said "quite directly", I assumed it was you who had them confused...the quote, I think, has some relation - sort of, but not really, because it's kind of mean to put it there because you're never given the chance to be pacifist...like, at all, so it's basically saying you're a monster, to me - but to say that something that was thought up in real life for something completely unrelated "quite directly" relates to a fictional bloodline within a game...well, uh, yeah, left me confused. Hence why I quoted what the BG1 one was first, and then Alaundo's prophecy second...though I failed to mention that the second was in the Shadows of Amn intro, even though that's what I meant.

But hey, now you said indirectly, so it's all good. :D

Edited by Bartimaeus, 02 December 2012 - 09:36 AM.

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#30 Cuv

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 02:05 PM

Cuv, thank you for nfo. This is what I wanted to hear about BG:EE. Now, I think about buying it.
I don't know how much you are allowed to say but I have 3 questions:

1. What stuff are now being externalized?
2. Will it be too hard to convert existing mods into BG:EE?

And last one, hehe, when are we gone see some new mods from you? :-)


Sure, there are some things I can say now that the game is released. Still others I cant.

1. Animations!!!!! Yes, you heard that right. IA will be obsolete in its current form. I am gonna work with Miloch to get this sorted. We are still pressing the devs to add more externalized support... but we currently have 5000 series, 6000 series unsplit, E series IWD/IWD2. so that means we can use all animations either converted to unsplit format (such as IA) AND all IWD/IWD2 animations in native form. Along with this creature speed has also been externalized. More on other things later. But above is the biggie!
2. If you would have asked me that 5 months ago I might have said yes, but now I think it will be easy to get mods up to BG:EE. Its still essentially the BG2 engine... its just fixed!

And lastly.... Yes! I plan to mod BG:EE (I have already started actually).

As for Return to Windspear... don't know what is gonna happen to that. We have signed/given all that over to Overhaul to use if they wish. Likely you will see it in some form or another. Gonna stick around on the beta team too and will keep mentioning it when I can. But its theirs now.

#31 begolf00

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 06:02 PM


Cuv, thank you for nfo. This is what I wanted to hear about BG:EE. Now, I think about buying it.
I don't know how much you are allowed to say but I have 3 questions:

1. What stuff are now being externalized?
2. Will it be too hard to convert existing mods into BG:EE?

And last one, hehe, when are we gone see some new mods from you? :-)


Sure,  there are some things I can say now that the game is released.  Still others I cant.

1. Animations!!!!!   Yes, you heard that right.  IA will be obsolete in its current form.  I am gonna work with Miloch to get this sorted.  We are still pressing the devs to add more externalized support... but we currently have 5000 series, 6000 series unsplit, E series IWD/IWD2.  so that means we can use all animations either converted to unsplit format (such as IA) AND all IWD/IWD2 animations in native form.  Along with this creature speed has also been externalized.   More on other things later.  But above is the biggie!
2. If you would have asked me that 5 months ago I might have said yes,  but now I think it will be easy to get mods up to BG:EE.  Its still essentially the BG2 engine... its just fixed!

And lastly.... Yes!  I plan to mod BG:EE (I have already started actually).  

As for Return to Windspear... don't know what is gonna happen to that.   We have signed/given all that over to Overhaul to use if they wish.  Likely you will see it in some form or another.  Gonna stick around on the beta team too and will keep mentioning it when I can.  But its theirs now.


Hope they do it justice, I'm a bit worried.

#32 Eleima

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Posted 02 December 2012 - 08:44 PM

But hey, now you said indirectly, so it's all good. :D


I blame sleep deprivation. ^_^

As for me, I've read a few reviews and feedback here on the forums, and decided I'm definitely giving the EE a pass. I still have my original copies of the game, so I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything, and my "pile" is huge, big enough that I can't afford to replay old games, I need to take care of those. XD

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#33 Zireael

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:45 AM

I'm giving the EE a pass too, now. No Polish translation so far, bugs, no CD version and $20 dollars is a lot in my country.

And why, for the love of Bhaal, did they cut out the movies?

#34 Cal Jones

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:00 AM

I'm happy with my old copy.
I took a look at the new intro on YouTube and I didn't like it. Guess I'll save my money, for now at least.

#35 Aranthys

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 04:14 AM

Not playing BG:EE strictly due to the movies is not a very good reason.
The only movie that I really miss, is the one from nashkel, with the kobolds. Other movies are utually good enough compared to the old ones.

But, still, I'd agree, if you're not sure, waitiing a bit before purchasing might be a good idea (at least if you don't intend to play in english)

Edited by Aranthys, 03 December 2012 - 04:14 AM.


#36 -Vlad-

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:53 AM

Is there like a change log?

#37 Zireael

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 09:59 AM

Is there like a change log?


Good question.

#38 begolf00

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 04:00 PM

There's been a major update to BG:EE.

If you were having trouble before I would give it another shot.

Here is the list of changes

http://forum.baldurs...te-2-build-2009