5286 replies to this topic

[Roxanne]

SCS v 3,0 (see Gibberlings3 ongoing analysis of the mod)

Sorry, but it's version 30, not 3,0 ... the reason why the "analysis" thread is so long is that there hasn't been an update for quite some time, it's one of the most popular mods to throw in to a combination with mods, and including megamoded games, it was stable on it's own. Add BP and you'll have a whole lot of messes, especially if you have 50+ other mods that break all sorts of stuff, just like the BP without the entity fixer(what ever its name is now)... Or add the Spell Revision, Item Revisons or others and depending which version you throw at it, you'll have different kinds of mess each time... the mods were/are developped at the same site, so they spill over a whole lots. The SCS ones tried to incorporate the SR, IR etc, but those version 2's, not betas of the v4's.
The SCS has been in the BWP installs from sinse the BWP even came out, cause the SCS(I) enhanced the BG1 AI in BGT-weidu, and the SCS(II) did the same for BG2 portion. The BP hasn't been until recently when the v181 came out, after the component slice and dize.

Yes, no and yes and a bit of everything.

Converging former SCS i + II into 30 (right) was like always = the sum often is more than the individual pieces. Yes, many parts of it have been around like since forever, still it now acts differently (the other factors you mention - fully agree). The reason not to say it is expert is the active support you have since the enhancement is worked on.

This is a hard nut . for all the reasons you give. It is quite old but somehow new in its current form. And you sureley remember that SCS i + II back then required a lot of knowledge about which component to install and when (and with which other mod or not).

[agb1]

Revised this part to match my newer thinking:

 

Stable/Recommended = no known problems (assuming BiG World Fixpack, which is mandatory for BWS), and we have a stable release link we can use in BWS

Testing = mod under active development, with author support and frequent updates, no stable release link or the last stable release is quite out of date

Expert = known problems not solved by BiG World Fixpack or we do not have conflicts rules in BWS, mod is not under active development and we have no stable link we can use

 

For mods that do not have a stable release link that we can use in BWS, we can use the 'W'arning type and the mod description to communicate the additional risk of problems to BWS users.  We can update the mod description if the author wants it to add more warnings or information to help users with this decision.

 

Current BWS status and my comments for the mods mentioned above:

 

Throne of Bhaal Revisited (Beta) v 4

Is TOBR under active development?  BWS links to the specific version.

The mod is Expert in BWS because we do not have conflicts rules for its components.

 

BG1 Unfinished Business v 14

Recommended in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS uses lynxlynx redirect for latest stable release on GitHub.

 

Stratagems v 30

Recommended in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

 

Item Revisions v 3 Beta 1.16

Recommended in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

 

Gahesh v 1 beta

Stable in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

Is it under active development?

 

Aran Whitehand NPC

Stable in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the master branch on GitHub.  There are tagged releases on GitHub.  Most recent was June 30.  Last commit was Aug 14.

BWS should switch to a lynxlynx link for the latest release.  If we do not hear from the mod author and releases exist, BWS should use them.  If a mod author wants BWS to use the master branch instead, we should mark the mod 'W'arning and add a note in the mod description.

 

Jastey's Solaufein Alpha(?) - actually beta v 150418

Stable in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

 

Unfinished Business for BG2 v 26 beta 2

Recommended in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

 

SandrahNPC + SandrahRTF + Sandrah Item Restoration

Stable in BWS.  BWS links to master branch on GitHub.  Mod author Roxanne has expressed interest in having the mod classified as Testing, but even if she had not, I would classify the mod as Testing because no releases are available as alternative download links.  I have marked these mods as 'W'arning mods and added a note in the mod description.

 

W_GUI v 0.6b

Stable in BWS.  I am not aware of problems that are not solved with BiG World Fixpack.  BWS links to the specific version.

 

Edited by agb1, 26 November 2015 - 10:57 AM.

[agb1]

The more I think about it, the less I feel that we need a separate classification of Testing mods vs. Expert.  You do not need to be an expert in fixing problems to use Expert mods or Testing mods.  You just need to be willing to accept less stability.  So, I will reclassify Sandrah mods as Expert for now.  I reconsidered.  An Expert mod should be a mod with a specific known problem that an Expert can solve to get the mod moved back to Stable.  Mods that are under active development without a stable download link can instead be marked 'W'arning with a description to help users decide if they want to be guinea pigs.  So I will do that instead.

 

@Roxanne I am adding this text to the BWS descriptions for Sandrah, RTF and the Item Restoration patch:

 

This mod is Expert because it is under active development with frequent updates.  The author invites all players to try the mod at any time.  The author tests every update but some bugs might slip in from time to time, so please report any problems on the mod forum page.

 

Note:  This mod is under active development with frequent updates.  The author invites all players to try the mod at any time.  The author tests every update but some bugs might slip in from time to time, including problems during installation, so please report any problems on the mod forum page.

 

If you want any edits, just let me know.

Edited by agb1, 26 November 2015 - 10:41 AM.

[agb1]

BWS master branch updates:

 

* Switched Aran Whitehand to use lynxlynx latest release link

 

* Added warning for Sandrah NPC, Sandrah Item Restoration and Return to Faerun:  "Note:  This mod is under active development with frequent updates.  The author invites all players to try the mod at any time.  The author tests every update but some bugs might slip in from time to time, including problems during installation, so please report any problems on the mod forum page."

 

 

@Roxanne Regarding SCS, etc. If specific components are known to cause problems, please let us know so we can mark those individual components as Expert.

Edited by agb1, 26 November 2015 - 10:51 AM.

[agb1]

Another thought: with BWS we want to avoid broken installs but we also want to help users have the most stable gameplay experience. This desire to provide the very latest fixes is part of the reason we have been using some less safe links recently. I think we need to prioritize safe installs for BWS, as Lollorian said. But we can also think about how to bring more known fixes to users in between mod releases. This might involve more contributions to BWFixpack or other approaches. As always the risk of moving fast is more bugs.

Edited by agb1, 26 November 2015 - 11:12 AM.

[Roxanne]

BWS master branch updates:

 

* Switched Aran Whitehand to use lynxlynx latest release link

 

* Added warning for Sandrah NPC, Sandrah Item Restoration and Return to Faerun:  "Note:  This mod is under active development with frequent updates.  The author invites all players to try the mod at any time.  The author tests every update but some bugs might slip in from time to time, including problems during installation, so please report any problems on the mod forum page."

 

 

@Roxanne Regarding SCS, etc. If specific components are known to cause problems, please let us know so we can mark those individual components as Expert.

@Roxanne Regarding SCS, etc. If specific components are known to cause problems, please let us know so we can mark those individual components as Expert.

4100, 4146, 4190, 6010 (however mostly in combination with other mods - anyway it requires expert handling if your installation has those)

Problems that even expert cannot solve - former SCSI content adding components (7040, 7050, 7060, 7070, 7100) can no longer be found by other content adding mods because SCS is now installed later in sequence.

 

PS - (Even if this is more a BWP issue but adapted by BWS - many of the dependencies and issues description have been retained from the former SCSi + II descriptions and in some cases are no longer valid while the new ones have not yet been captured)

Edited by Roxanne, 26 November 2015 - 11:17 AM.

[agb1]

I did a review of the SCS components' dependencies for BWS. All SCS components need at least SCS component 0 installed first, which is detectable spells and other patches. I am not sure what other mods / types of content (spells?) need to be installed before SCS 0. If we can install SCS 0 earlier (and also spell rev 0 and item rev 0), it will make it possible for more mods to detect those mods' content and tweak it. Some expert advice about how early we can safely install those components would be helpful

In general, install order in BWS is another area that needs review. It mostly follows the BWP but as I have said before, BWS automation makes it very easy to install individual components of a mod earlier if it helps compatibility, so we should take of advantage of that.

Edited by agb1, 26 November 2015 - 11:44 AM.

[Roxanne]

I did a review of the SCS components' dependencies for BWS. All SCS components need at least SCS component 0 installed first, which is detectable spells and other patches. I am not sure what other mods / types of content (spells?) need to be installed before SCS 0. If we can install SCS 0 earlier (and also spell rev 0 and item rev 0), it will make it possible for more mods to detect those mods' content and tweak it. Some expert advice about how early we can safely install those components would be helpful

In general, install order in BWS is another area that needs review. It mostly follows the BWP but as I have said before, BWS automation makes it very easy to install individual components of a mod earlier if it helps compatibility, so we should take of advantage of that.

I think this is an internal problem in SCS that says they require component 0 for everything - however there is nothing in a component e.g. that sends NPC to an inn upon leaving (i.e. simple dialogue addition) to practically be in need of anything in the core component?? But I understand that you would not tweak such unnessesary checks out of the tp2 without the author's consent.

I also see that component 0 itself should be installed rather late to be applied to all the mods that come before. So all I can say is that those components I have identified as *content additions* do not really require component 0 to be there.

Edited by Roxanne, 26 November 2015 - 12:01 PM.

[agb1]

Well, DS is installed also by other mods.. What really needs to be there for SCS 0 to do its job?

[The Imp]

I think this is an internal problem in SCS that says they require component 0 for everything - however there is nothing in a component e.g. that sends NPC to an inn upon leaving (i.e. simple dialogue addition) to practically be in need of anything in the core component?

You sure about this... Say like not having a script structure that allows the characters availability to participate to dialog to be valid ... has no practical purpose in compeling the scripts that uses that structure... right.
So what if it's in the BG2 Fixpack too, the mod doesn't need the BG2 Fixpack. Just the first component.

[Roxanne]

I think this is an internal problem in SCS that says they require component 0 for everything - however there is nothing in a component e.g. that sends NPC to an inn upon leaving (i.e. simple dialogue addition) to practically be in need of anything in the core component?

You sure about this... Say like not having a script structure that allows the characters availability to participate to dialog to be valid ... has no practical purpose in compeling the scripts that uses that structure... right.
So what if it's in the BG2 Fixpack too, the mod doesn't need the BG2 Fixpack. Just the first component.

I once again took another deep look into what component 0 (or 1000) does - and there is nothing wrong with that. The main point is, that in the current sequence those fundamental repairs and corrections are applied by one of the latest mods in the install order instead of the very beginning before anther 250 mods add on to that fundament. This component's target is the initial game, some of it corrects the original components even, thus it should be applied before the modding circus starts not at its tail end.

And with the first component installed - the rest of SCS becomes flexible and the contents adding parts can be as well moved to earlier parts so they are available for mods to built on them.

Edited by Roxanne, 26 November 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[agb1]

Imp, I am not sure I completely understand what you were saying here. If other SCS components need a change to scripts that is done either by BG2 Fixpack or by SCS 0, it would be better for other mods if the SCS components checked for either SCS 0 or BG2 Fixpack. Right?

What I think Roxanne is suggesting and what I am thinking is that moving (for example) the SCS tactical components earlier in the install order (with other tactical encounter mods) would mean that other mods that want to further tweak those encounters could be installed earlier also, which overall would mean less need for mods to be installed "out of order" from a content perspective. It simplifies the conflict analysis for all modders if we adopt some standards about installation order for the various types of content. BWP attempts to do this with sections for tactical, NPCs, quests, etc. But there are many exceptions because certain mods require other mods to be installed first in order to detect them and install cross-mod content or tweaks. It would be helpful if we could reduce some of these dependencies over time.

[agb1]

Can someone educate me about Detectable Spells in particular? If that is installed before mods that add new spells, for example, will those spells not be detectable by scripts?

[agb1]

Thanks for reporting your successful install. I will merge those IWDEE updates onto the BWS master branch. Glad it worked for you!

[Ser Elryk]

Had a couple of questions about the mods

 

Area Patcher

Creature Fixer

Innates Set to Level One

 

Area Patcher and Innates Set to Level One are highlighted green for Recommended, but are not automatically selected when choosing a "Recommended" install? I don't know whether to use them or not for my megamod install.

 

And Creature Fixer says that LolFixer is preferred over it, but it is still highlighted green for Recommended?

 

Thanks for any insight! =)

[agb1]

Area patcher is only required with NEJ or Jarl's Adventure Pack, both of which are Expert mods.

Innates set to level one is included in Lolfixer so it is not necessary to install separately.

Creature fixer and one of Lolfixer's components (the inventory overhauler) do almost the same thing, but creature fixer deletes items if they are equipped improperly and lolfixer instead just moves them to inventory. You can choose which solution you want for that.

[Ser Elryk]

Ah! Thank you kindly, agb1

[Nightfarer]

Area Patcher is, really, needed only for Jarls BGT Adventure Pack.

 

NeJ components are required to support pre-691 versions

 

Shadows over Soubar component is not required at all (handled by BWP Fixpack now).

[agb1]

@Nightfarer BWS (for reasons unclear to me) still offers three variants of NEJ: 4.2, 6.8 and 6.91 (with 6.94 patch). So...