38 replies to this topic

[T.G.Maestro]

This thread would be an ideal host for this discussion.

[T.G.Maestro]

OK, I'll take a look at the weapon types, decide on the animation weights, and email the code over to you and Littiz.

This seems to be the default animation sets by weapon type (though some are different). Animations are overhand/backhand/thrusting:

Axes: 50/50/0
Blunt weapons (maces, clubs, flails, morningstars): 50/50/0
Daggers: 0/20/80
Halberds: 0/35/65
Hammers: 65/35/0
Spears: 33/33/34
Staves: 10/70/20 is most common though there are lots of variations
1H Swords: Split between 50/50/0 and 10/25/65
2H Swords: 60/40/0

Out of these, probably the only changes I would recommend is moving spears to 10/20/70, standardizing staves to 10/70/20, short swords to 10/25/65 and other 1H swords to 50/50/0. Comments, suggestions?

Your suggestions on spears is good, though I would change the staves standard to 20/70/10 or 30/60/10.
Short swords could do well with a 25/35/40.
And I think there should be at least SOME thrusting animation for long swords (but not for bastard swords!), something like 45/45/10.

[CamDawg]

Just a quick note: my understanding is that scimitars and wakizashis, being curved, would not normally be used in a thrusting attack, so they would be inline with long swords despite their shorter length. Ninja-tos are straight blades and would get the same animation breakdown as short swords.

TGM, those adjustments are fine with me.

[T.G.Maestro]

TGM, those adjustments are fine with me.

We've come to an agreement then . Please post this component to Littiz as soon as you manage to implement the code, so we can see if it can make it into v1.

[Tom]

In my understanding werent the spikes on the ends of warhammers used often also? So maybe some thrusting would be approprite (im not sure if it would work or not)

Also, Im not sure if this is this is the sort of thing you would look to include in this mod, but Katanas are two handed weapons, not one handed like they are in BGII. I just thought that if you limited them to two handed it would make them a bit more balanced (I mean, come on, who wants to use a two handed sword if you can dual weild something that does the same thing but is faster? This is in exception of course to paladins and their carsomyr )

[T.G.Maestro]

Im not sure if this is this is the sort of thing you would look to include in this mod, but Katanas are two handed weapons, not one handed like they are in BGII. I just thought that if you limited them to two handed it would make them a bit more balanced (I mean, come on, who wants to use a two handed sword if you can dual wield something that does the same thing but is faster?

Turning katanas into two-handed weapons would result in one thing - people not downloading BG2 Refinements . While you're absolutely right, katanas are the favourite weapons in BG2, there are a bunch of very powerful and well-enchanted katanas in the game (despite everything what the description says about these "rare" blades).
Still, I'm considering the option to make katanas a bit harder to use for v2: some DEX requirements, etc..

[Userunfriendly]

Im not sure if this is this is the sort of thing you would look to include in this mod, but Katanas are two handed weapons, not one handed like they are in BGII. I just thought that if you limited them to two handed it would make them a bit more balanced (I mean, come on, who wants to use a two handed sword if you can dual wield something that does the same thing but is faster?

Turning katanas into two-handed weapons would result in one thing - people not downloading BG2 Refinements . While you're absolutely right, katanas are the favourite weapons in BG2, there are a bunch of very powerful and well-enchanted katanas in the game (despite everything what the description says about these "rare" blades).
Still, I'm considering the option to make katanas a bit harder to use for v2: some DEX requirements, etc..

integrate the dex requirements with the dex and stat requirements for the new kits and you won't hear any complaints...

[CamDawg]

Idobek's tweak pack already contains a 2H katana component so I don't think it's something we need to implement with refinements.

In terms of spikes and warhammers, typically they would face opposite the head. So a swinging motion would still be needed to bring them into play.

UU, stop trying to get free stat points.

[Userunfriendly]

Idobek's tweak pack already contains a 2H katana component so I don't think it's something we need to implement with refinements.

In terms of spikes and warhammers, typically they would face opposite the head. So a swinging motion would still be needed to bring them into play.

UU, stop trying to get free stat points.

urm...nope, i was saying that if you want to make minimum dex and str requirements to wield katanas, then make them the minimum dex and str requirements to pick one of the new kits like sword angel...or for that matter the minimum requirements to pick kensai...and no one will mind, since you've got to meet those requirements to pick one of the new kits, or kensai anyway...

this would also discourage people from choosing katanas if they choose to play fighter, straight class, or possibly an elven dual class...

[T.G.Maestro]

Something to think about UU.

[Tom]

Turning katanas into two-handed weapons would result in one thing - people not downloading BG2 Refinements . While you're absolutely right, katanas are the favourite weapons in BG2, there are a bunch of very powerful and well-enchanted katanas in the game (despite everything what the description says about these "rare" blades).
Still, I'm considering the option to make katanas a bit harder to use for v2: some DEX requirements, etc..

When I thought about this today I arrived at the same conclusion. Even if you made it an optional component I dunno whether I'd install it Perhaps make them one handed but deal 1d12, or 2d6, or something like that? (This is an optional componenet of course) Either/or add some more powerful ones to the game...

[T.G.Maestro]

I'd rather add a few disadvantages to them than boost them with further bonuses. Normally katanas are extremely fragile - if you swing them in a wrong way, or make them clash to another weapon (lets say, a morning star) directly, it would only result in a broken blade..
Since there are no durability modifiers in BG2, this one is not an option . Still, some negative bonuses should be applied to such weapons.

Ideas are welcome.

[CamDawg]

Adding stat requirements to a kit/class is an advantage in BG2, since the character generator will always make sure that your stats meet the requirements. If you make a kit that requires 17s across the board, this is a disadvantage in PnP since it will be nearly impossible to create a character for that class. In BG2, this is a huge advantage, since it means that you will get a minimum of 17s in your character.

This is why so many people get high stats while generating elven rangers--minumum stats are ~13-14 for just about everything.

[Userunfriendly]

I'd rather add a few disadvantages to them than boost them with further bonuses. Normally katanas are extremely fragile - if you swing them in a wrong way, or make them clash to another weapon (lets say, a morning star) directly, it would only result in a broken blade..
Since there are no durability modifiers in BG2, this one is not an option . Still, some negative bonuses should be applied to such weapons.

Ideas are welcome.

that might be fine in a non magical katana...but a magic weapon shouldn't break...

i mean everyone normally carries some non magic weapons for dealing with protection from magic weapons, right???

so i would be entirely willing to let non magical katanas break more often than regular longswords, since they are more fragile...but not the magical ones please...not unless replacements are easy to come by...

like the +1 and +2 katanas, but not the irreplaceable ones like celestial fury...

[T.G.Maestro]

What about increasing the DEX requirements for katanas?

[CamDawg]

By all means--I just wanted to veto UU's idea of increasing class/kit stat requirements; the net effect would be higher stats.

I'm not sure if I'm entirely onboard with the idea of fragile katanas, especially magicked ones. Something more interesting would be giving crushing weapons a chance to break unmagicked armor, shields or swords. I know this wouldn't be much of a change, since magic weapons fall out of the sky in BG2 (and +12 hackmasters in ToB) but it seems a more reasonable component.

[Userunfriendly]

By all means--I just wanted to veto UU's idea of increasing class/kit stat requirements; the net effect would be higher stats.

I'm not sure if I'm entirely onboard with the idea of fragile katanas, especially magicked ones. Something more interesting would be giving crushing weapons a chance to break unmagicked armor, shields or swords. I know this wouldn't be much of a change, since magic weapons fall out of the sky in BG2 (and +12 hackmasters in ToB) but it seems a more reasonable component.

OH no...no...no...

i was NOT suggesting that the stat requirements for various kits be changed at all...i was merely suggesting that the minimum requirements to use a katana match the EXISTING stat requirements for sword angel and other kits, like kensai...

for example, suppose the minimum dex for kensai is 13 (i don't know off the top of my head)...then the minimum requirement for a katana is changed to 13...

so a fighter, or multiclass, who wants to use katanas has a good shot at being able to use them, but is probably going to go for kensai kit to make sure he can use them...and it takes good stats as a fighter to use katanas at all...

see? its not a burdensome restriction, but it gently prods a player to go for one of the kits to be a katana wielder...

[CamDawg]

Ah, got it; I misunderstood. That makes sense.

[Userunfriendly]

Ah, got it; I misunderstood. That makes sense.

of course...it would be cheesy otherwise...

urm...urm...urm...what, me be cheesy??? never!!!

[T.G.Maestro]

for example, suppose the minimum dex for kensai is 13 (i don't know off the top of my head)...then the minimum requirement for a katana is changed to 13...

You forget what happens when you get ability drained by something. Quite annoying, if you ask me.