24 replies to this topic

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Just an FYI, but I was reading through the Cleric Remix over at Gibberlings Three: http://forums.camagn...p?showtopic=465 and saw that they had added FIREWALKER OF KOSSUTH cleric kit.

I was just curious as to what if any overlap this would have with the tenative Fire Guardian kit.

(isn't this a sneaky way to ask what the ideas for the Fire Guardian kit are?)

After that I wondered if there would be any compatability issues with Cleric Remix & Refinements in terms of HLAs.

[T.G.Maestro]

After that I wondered if there would be any compatability issues with Cleric Remix & Refinements in terms of HLAs.

It seems there will be major compatibility issues with the two mods, at least if CR is installed on top of Refinements. I'd suggest installing Refinements on top of every other mods to get the best effect, but it's up to the player of course.

I was just curious as to what if any overlap this would have with the tenative Fire Guardian kit

The Fire Guardian -if it gets implemented- will be a most interesting character. If I should describe it in one sentence, it will be a fighter-sorcerer of sorts, dealing with all forms of fire-based magic. He/she won't have access to any other forms of magic, but he will have much gretaer and focused powers in using the powers of the Elemental powers of Fire. Most likely he will have access to all fire based mage and clerical spells, including the most powerful new HLAs as well. They will receive loads of new and spectacular spells and abilities, they will have the opportunity to turn into a fire-based Lich-like creature (Black Flame) at very high levels.

I wouldn't spoil anything else for now, bu trust me, it will look nice .

[Andyr]

TGM and I have had a few chats about compatability.

There will probably be issues, yeah, but we'll work through them. We add new HLA files for the new kits, so having both mods installed would mean that new kits get the CR HLAs while kitless and vanilla kits get the ones from which of Refinements and CR was installed most recently.

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes, this sounds like a fair solution for now.

[Schatten]

what about ice, electricity, poison, earth?

"It seems there will be major compatibility issues "

are there any known incombatibilitys with other mods at this state?

[Rathwellin the Bard]

The Gibberlings Three NPC Kit Pack has an Imoen component that doesn't look to be compatable with SwashImoen.

I don't know any technical details but I would be careful about SwashImoen and the very latest version of Imoen Romance, though I imagine that earlier versions would be OK.

The Oversight mod has a Monk HLA table so you would have issues similar to the Cleric Remix in that you get whatever HLA you install last.

Any mod that installs kits will probably not fit as nicely with Refinements as one might wish from a players perspective due to possible HLA stuff.

And, of course, I doubt that you will want to install both Wes' Shapeshifter Rebalancing and the Shapeshifter component of Refinements at one time.

That's off the top of my head.

[Schatten]

thx. its getting complicated. seems i must pay attention when installing it.

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes, pay attention to install it on top of everything else!

[Littiz]

Sorry, but I fear the Cleric Remix will be fully incompatible with our Mod, at the moment.

Problems are with the Use Scrolls ability and clerics dualled to thieves.
New clerical kits won't live with the mechanism, and this will probably require some major work to be solved..

[T.G.Maestro]

Problems are with the Use Scrolls ability and clerics dualled to thieves.
New clerical kits won't live with the mechanism

Some bad news indeed.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Schatten, just don?t install every mod in creation every time you play a game. There are *very* few mods that I feel like installing every time I play. Ascension was the only one until recently.

What I generally do is decide what kind of BG experience I want to have ahead of time and then I install mods that can make it happen. I generally research the mods I?m thinking about and check for compatibility ahead of time.

For instance, before I started testing refinements in a clean install I played a heavily modded game. I decided that I wanted to try out the Druidic Sorcerer mod. My PC would obviously be this new kit. That decision shaped my following ones. Since the Druidic Sorcerer is more powerful than many kits I decided that I needed to make the game harder, so Tactics was in. Given Tactics & Druidic Sorcerer, I decided to also add Item Upgrade, both to make party members in general more powerful and equal to my PC and to better take advantage of some of the stuff in Tactics. Since I was already installing two Wiemer mods I decided to test out some of Ease of Use too.

I also wanted additional content in my game in addition to rules tweaks so I decided to try out the Imoen romance. I knew ahead of time that this mod has a really powerful item in it, so my guess was that it would fit right in with the rest of what I had & would make Imoen and my PC a good match on many levels.

At the last minute, while installing mods, I came across CamDawq?s tweak pack & the Planar Sphere Return/Teleport mod & installed them without the same careful consideration that I had given the rest.

I had tried out Item Upgrade once before, but had never played with any of these other mods.

I pretty much got exactly the experience I expected and the only compatibility issue I ran into was with a single component of CamDawq?s tweak mod and the Imoen Romance, which didn?t totally surprise me since I hadn?t checked the tweaks out as closely as the others, but I was able to find a workaround so all was good.

And just for the record, since I?m posting this dissertation anyway,

I found that I liked the Druidic Sorcerer kit, though it was more powerful than any default kits or classes, however I would never play it without a tougher game like I did.

I?ve decided that I like between about 1/3 and 1/2 of Tactics and will probably keep using some of these components in the future.

Item Upgrade seems overpowered. Individually most of the items are fine but collectively they are too much even with Tactics. So, not without some regret, I?ll be avoiding this one.

Likewise most of the Ease of Use changes were not to my liking with respect to balance. The main things that I will be keeping are the infinite stacking & bags of holding since I hate inventory management so much.

The Imoen Romance was interesting, I?ll give the ToB portion a try when it comes out, but I doubt that I?ll play it regularly. It was just too complicated to be fun IMO. Much of the content was excellent but I strongly disliked a very few parts.

I didn?t like the Planar Sphere Return mod (it lets you teleport back to the sphere kind of like you can do in ToB to the Pocket Plane). SoA just isn?t built to let you teleport back there during chapter 4 while stuck in Spellhold for instance.

CamDawq?s Tweak Pack ended up being my favorite of all the mods I tested. The changes it made to force dialogue were fantastic and I?ll probably never play without this mod again.

[Schatten]

naa, thats boring. i always do the full staff. my list of mini tweaks and mods has 40 entries or something (lots of small things like beholder hive upgrade). i dont install all npcs because not all are good and i dont play with them all.
but things like tactics and battles and better items are always in. i share your opinion that those items unbalance the game even with tougher monsters but for the endbosses i use them (they are too tough for poor litlle me ).
okay, i dont install imoen romance if i dont play with her. but the rest must be in.

[Andyr]

Sorry, but I fear the Cleric Remix will be fully incompatible with our Mod, at the moment.

Problems are with the Use Scrolls ability and clerics dualled to thieves.
New clerical kits won't live with the mechanism, and this will probably require some major work to be solved..

Oh dear...

Could you explain to me the problems (either here, at Gibberlings3 or over PM) s we can try and work them out?

[GreyViper]

The Fire Guardian -if it gets implemented- will be a most interesting character. If I should describe it in one sentence, it will be a fighter-sorcerer of sorts, dealing with all forms of fire-based magic. He/she won't have access to any other forms of magic, but he will have much gretaer and focused powers in using the powers of the Elemental powers of Fire. Most likely he will have access to all fire based mage and clerical spells, including the most powerful new HLAs as well. They will receive loads of new and spectacular spells and abilities, they will have the opportunity to turn into a fire-based Lich-like creature (Black Flame) at very high levels.

I like it verry much.
LoL The funny thing is I though up a "Dragon Knight" class for a char of mine. That is so similar minus the Black Flame of course.

Here is what I thought up.

"Dragon Knight"

Half-human male
Were dragon with penalty to dragon form
Figther/sorcerer
Uses two-hande, bastard(wave/flamberg) swords
two weapon fighter
magic/fire resist
magic: offencive fire and energy spells
inate abilites: fire shield, transform to dragon(at lvl 18), melf minute meteors

Str 16
Dex 15
End 13
Wis 15
Int 18
Char 18

PS. This is just trivial stuff.

[T.G.Maestro]

I like it verry much

Thanks for the positive comment, Grey! Trust me, it WILL look good if we ever manage to implement it.

[Littiz]

Sorry, but I fear the Cleric Remix will be fully incompatible with our Mod, at the moment.

Problems are with the Use Scrolls ability and clerics dualled to thieves.
New clerical kits won't live with the mechanism, and this will probably require some major work to be solved..

Oh dear...

Could you explain to me the problems (either here, at Gibberlings3 or over PM) s we can try and work them out?

This is quite complicated, frankly, it won't be solved in one or two days.

I'll have a look at the mod when I have recovered some time...
How many clerical kits are we talking about?

[Rathwellin the Bard]

At the rate they are going I'll bet that the fill them up soon! They alter the 3 existing kits & add what ... something like 5 new ones.

[T.G.Maestro]

No, they won't fill in the free slots - they are adding those kits to the PC character via scripts.
This means there will be much more new kits in CC than 5...

[Andyr]

We're going for 9 for the first release, will have more eventually. At the moment 6 are finished, and the other 3 are at various stages of work.

Feel free to chat whenever you have the time mate.

[Littiz]

Those are bad news, compatibility with 9 kits is gonna require a MASSIVE work. Worse, it'd require so much scripting that I start to think it'd be too heavy on the installation.

Things would get a little easier if they are installable separately, and mostly, if they are only usable by the PC.
In that case, I could probably do a much lighter version of the scripts...