16 replies to this topic

[Feanor]

Some time ago, Maestro, you said something about a new designed HLA : cleave. Could you say what it does and which class and kit uses it ?

[Feanor]

Maestro, I have a question for you : don't you think True Kai needs to be more powerful ? I mean it has only a 15% to kill the opponent, it lasts only 12 seconds, it allows a save versus death at -2 and it can be used only once per day. Quite many limitations, if you ask me...

[T.G.Maestro]

No - it was only an idea.
But I already created a few additional (mostly passive) HLAs for the Fighter-type characters:
- Improved Critical;
- Toughness;
- and MAYBE Force Attack.

[T.G.Maestro]

Not really if you compare it with the original Kai ability. I think it is fine as it is - I really don't intend to boost the Kensai kit even more. An ability that does maximum damage on hit, grants them a vorpal hit combined with a Whirlwind HLA can be more than deadly, trust me..

[Feanor]

True Kai has any visual effect when he succeeds an instant kill (like Silver Sword) ?

[T.G.Maestro]

Yes, exactly the same "rising spirit" visual.

[Feanor]

Yes, exactly the same "rising spirit" visual.

1. Maestro, I suspect a bug here. I tested True Kai last evening, I did some "instant-killings", but no rising spirit visual.
2. Why did I say True Kai seems quite weak : because, in TOB, almost all the opponents are able to make a save versus death at -2. I uses True Kai against some level 9 drows and they have always succeed to make that save.

[T.G.Maestro]

Maestro, I suspect a bug here. I tested True Kai last evening, I did some "instant-killings", but no rising spirit visual.

Thanks for the report, I'll try to track this if it's a bug.

Why did I say True Kai seems quite weak : because, in TOB, almost all the opponents are able to make a save versus death at -2. I uses True Kai against some level 9 drows and they have always succeed to make that save

But that goes for every single spell too - Wail of the Banshee will be even more weak, since it has a "0" modifier at saving throws. But I could list several others: War Cry, Power Attack, Bigby's Fists, Finger of Death, the Silver Sword, Disintegrate, Flash to Stone, etc. The fact that ToB foes have crazy saving throws makes most of the effects harder to use. This ability grants a Kensai a heavy bonus: it allows them to use the vorpal attack effect of the Silver Sword with ANY blade(s) and still deal maximum damage for an increased duration. While these effects aren't groundbreaking vs. Tob opponents, they are still far more powerful than vanilla SoA abilities.

[Feanor]

But that goes for every single spell too - Wail of the Banshee will be even more weak, since it has a "0" modifier at saving throws.

That's right, but Wail of the Banshee is an area effect spell. If you cast it when you are surrounded by many foes, there is a high chance that some of them will fail to make that save. The same for War Cry. Power Attack requires a save at -4. Bigby's crushing hand requires for the first round a save at -4 and another one at -2 for the second round. Also Bigby's saves prevent only a part of the spell's effects.
The other ones are for lower levels.

grants them a vorpal hit combined with a Whirlwind HLA can be more than deadly, trust me..

But the main reason why I asked you this is because True Kai pales in comparison with many other HLA you have implemented (monk's chant, for instance). Yes, combined with Whirlwind is quite powerful, but, even so, HLA of other classes are really DEVASTATING if you combine me. I combined yesterday Foresight and Aegis and I obtained a mage with -24 (!) AC, -23 saving throws, 85% resistancec to physical damage and elemental damage and protection from the first removing protection spell.

An ability that does maximum damage on hit

At high level, Kensais already do maximum damage to the majority of the opponents due to their enormous THAC0.

Edited by Feanor, 19 May 2004 - 03:25 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

True Kai pales in comparison with many other HLA you have implemented (monk's chant, for instance)

The one that removes ALL your Magic Resistance?

HLA of other classes are really DEVASTATING

Some of them. I hardly think that you'd call Inner Focus, Precision, Chaos Hammer or many other that powerful. There are stronger/weaker ones.

At high level, Kensais already do maximum damage to the majority of the opponents due to their enormous THAC0

Hmm? Since when does THAC0 have an effect on damage? It only increases the chance to hit the target, the damage is entirely calculated from the base damage of the weapon and your STR modifier...
Kensai receive a bonus to their damage at specified levels, but it only increases their damage value, not maximizes it. There more bonus they receice, the more their max damage becomes. Which means Kai and True Kai (and Critical Strike/Smite) will become more and more effective at higher levels for this kit.

Edited by T.G.Maestro, 19 May 2004 - 03:41 AM.

[T.G.Maestro]

About True Kai: after serious consideration, I tend to accept a slight increase in the chance to deal a vorpal hit. I think we can increase it to 20% without overpowering this ability. Opinions?

About Kensai's damage: I haven't encountered the problem you told me Feanor. My 18th level kensai deals damage between 22 and 31. The two versions of Kai increased to 31, just as they should. After their effects expired, my damage went back to an average of 27.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

About True Kai: after serious consideration, I tend to accept a slight increase in the chance to deal a vorpal hit. I think we can increase it to 20% without overpowering this ability. Opinions?

About Kensai's damage: I haven't encountered the problem you told me Feanor. My 18th level kensai deals damage between 22 and 31. The two versions of Kai increased to 31, just as they should. After their effects expired, my damage went back to an average of 27.

I thought that it was fine the way it was. 15% is OK with me.

IMO the vorpal sees like a perk not the main thrust of the HLA.

In all honesty I wouldn't mind if the vorpal went down to a mere 5%.

[T.G.Maestro]

Since I heard quite different opinions on this one, I decide to leave it as it is at the moment.
15% it is.

[Jinnai]

[I thought that it was fine the way it was. 15% is OK with me.

IMO the vorpal sees like a perk not the main thrust of the HLA.

In all honesty I wouldn't mind if the vorpal went down to a mere 5%.

Rathwellin saying something isn't underpowered that someone thinks is. *goes outside to check the sky* Nope, don't see any flying pigs...

[Rathwellin the Bard]

It's not the first time. For instance got in a big debate about Aura Cleansing where I was the only one saying limit it to one pick. Then there was the more recent post about the overall changes to monks. There are a few other instances too....

[Jinnai]

True, but many of them were because you didn't like the ability or you thought there were other abilities that weren't very powerful for the class to balance them out.

[Rathwellin the Bard]

Interesting perception ... but not true IMO.

I can only think of a few changes Refinements makes that I don't like. The two biggest are the Sorcerer Elemental HLAs and restricting Shapeshifter Druids so much.

If anything I wonder if cumulative changes Refinements makes will be too powerful. It might actually be a fun exercise to find all the posts where I worry about stuff adding too much power.