69 replies to this topic

[Caedwyr]

So basically a fallen celestial is weaker than a non-fallen celestial, unless they are considered completely irredeemable and transform into some type of fiend?

[oralpain]

Fallen celestials are much weakend and have few if any allies and many enemies, they usually die. When they die their souls go to what ever plane corisponds to thier (new)alignment. If they are evil they *might* wind up as fiends eventualy, and if they are very lucky they might survive long enough to rise through the fiendish ranks. Apparently the fiends can sometimes sense if a petitioner was once a celestial and they normaly endup destroying such creatures utterly.

The good gods never try to have a former celestial turned into a fiend. That would just strengthen evil. Fiends *like* being fiends, it's not really a punishment for them (except maybe the very lowest ones wich are brutalized, eaten, ect).

Baalzebul was a special case, he did not die, he ended up in the hells (baator) where Asmodeus, pittying him and seeing some potential (probably to piss-off the other lords) made him directly into the lord of the seventh layer. He kept his celestial form, wich he was very proud of. Later Baalzebul betrayed Asmodeus, so Asmodeus turned him into a giant slug (wich was worse than death for the vain, perfectionist, former Archon), but allowed him to continue to rule.

Edited by oralpain, 06 November 2004 - 03:27 PM.

[Feanor]

Theoretically, a celestial could defeat a god ?

[Stone Wolf]

There's a chance that a Solar could beat a weak Demi-Power, but not a very good one. Remembers, Powers can kill with just a thought, and there's nothing that can stop them from doing so except another Power.

[Feanor]

Powers can kill with just a thought

I thought only mortals can be killed by powers this way.

[Stone Wolf]

Not as far as I know. The only beings they can't auto-kill are other Powers and possibly that Mediator thing in Mechanus (the one that gets infinite wishes and auto-initiative).

[oralpain]

The only power that can kill with just a thought are greater powers and thye can't kill other powers/demi-powers that way. Intermediate powers can set up a chain of accidents that will kill any mortal creature. Lesser and demi-powers have no similar ability.

Only the very weakest of demi-powers can be directly killed by by beings that are not themselves powers. Iuz and a few half-god demi-powers here and there could *possibly* be destroyed in combat by a solar or a group of powerful adventurers, but anything more powerul could not be permanently killed by non powers, unless perhaps a very powerful artifact was involved.

Edited by oralpain, 09 November 2004 - 08:34 AM.

[Archmage Silver]

Hmm... if a Power's followers numbers were drastically decreased, would the Power's own power lessen? And what would be the chances of some high ranking wizards beating a Power then?

[oralpain]

Gods get very nearly all of their power from the faith and belief of their followers. If a god loses a significant number of its followers it will eventually drop down in rank (for greater to intermediate, and so on), depending on how much surplus it has (usually not much). With losses to it's worshippers a greater power could eventually drop all the way to a demi power, after that it dies and its husk becomes one of the petrified manifestations of teh many dead gods that float in the astral.

Having any mortal beable to destroy any power is nearly unheard of, you need many worshipers to even become a demipower and greater powers often have tens of millions spread across many planes and worlds, killing a significant chunk of them, or causing them to lose faith would be really really hard. Also, even the weakest of the demi-powers would be almost assured victory over a band of very high level adventurers. Even without its imortality/invulerablity the true form of a demi power is more powerful than the geatest of avatars of any god.

I suppose a power might beable strip itself of its divinity so it would not die from a near complete loss of worshipers. In that case it would become a mortal and could be slain by mortals.

[Archmage Silver]

Thanks for the answer. Of course this was only theoretical, because Greater Powers would propably not suffer mortals killing their followers by thousands.