Well, my point is that ID is still being sold by people who have license to do so, so allowing people to play ID without buying it is dishonorable.
IWD1 to BG2 - TUTU Style
Started by grogerson, Feb 27 2006 07:18 AM
75 replies to this topic
#42
Vlad
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 05:25 AM
Well, I suggest to close this discussion because it's related only to the country where you live and to your own ideology. I am not an avid and gladly share what I own with my friends. 
Edited by Vlad, 29 April 2006 - 06:08 AM.
#43
Grim Squeaker
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 03:20 PM
I am not an avid and gladly share what I own with my friends.
Yeah but that still doesn't make it legal...
"You alone can make my song take flight..."
#44
Delight
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 04:55 PM
IIRC promoting illegal activities on forum is illegal?
...
#45
Creepin
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Posted 29 April 2006 - 10:28 PM
Perhaps so, but who bloody cares?ID1 is still in sale and it's not an abandonware, so it's still a piracy.
If some people are really so inclined (I know, in some countries people has been brainwashed for generations about how bad is to copy something copyrighted), no one forbids them from buying official IWD and stuffing it on a farthest shelf before playing NeJ with clear conscience, however stupid it may sondsSome people--I know, it's hard to believe--actually want to do the right thing, even if there's no consequence to doing the wrong thing.
What an... interesting idea.Well, my point is that ID is still being sold by people who have license to do so, so allowing people to play ID without buying it is dishonorable.
I always thought that sharing something you have with other people who want it is rather an example of generosity and, as such, honour 
Umm, and those having the license - why didn't they just stuff it up in... where is the best place for it 
Edited by Creepin, 29 April 2006 - 10:37 PM.
The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)
#46
Delight
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Posted 30 April 2006 - 04:38 AM
It has something to do with the fact that some people live off creating cRPGs.
If games has poor sales, then game producers have financial troubles and therefore they are unable to create more games.
If games has poor sales, then game producers have financial troubles and therefore they are unable to create more games.
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#47
Psykotik
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Posted 30 April 2006 - 06:35 AM
It has something to do with the fact that some people live off creating cRPGs.
If games has poor sales, then game producers have financial troubles and therefore they are unable to create more games.
Sorry to be rude, but that's bullshit. Do you think companies can wait years after releasing their game to make money ? Do you think these companies raise loans on their games, expecting on many years sales to pay back ?
Copyrights for many years have nothing to do with "the fact that some people live off creating cRPGs"...
#48
Delight
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Posted 30 April 2006 - 06:55 AM
Nope.
But still some people live off selling games
.
But still some people live off selling games
.
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#49
grogerson
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Posted 01 May 2006 - 04:12 AM
Why don't we get this back on topic.
If IWD can be ported to BG2 TUTU-style it would save a lot of space on the HDD. It would also be far more workable for modding than the current engine.
It is also my understanding that these foru do not support piracy, as some of you who have recently spoken seem to. The modding community walks a fine line with the owners of the games they mod.
I would prefer this thread stay open and discuss ideas for the portage of IWD to BG2 than be locked for transgressing the rules of the foru.
So please keep it on the IWD to BG2 Tutu idea.
If IWD can be ported to BG2 TUTU-style it would save a lot of space on the HDD. It would also be far more workable for modding than the current engine.
It is also my understanding that these foru do not support piracy, as some of you who have recently spoken seem to. The modding community walks a fine line with the owners of the games they mod.
I would prefer this thread stay open and discuss ideas for the portage of IWD to BG2 than be locked for transgressing the rules of the foru.
So please keep it on the IWD to BG2 Tutu idea.
#50
Ascension64
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Posted 01 May 2006 - 05:07 AM
Would it? If you needed the tilesets, music, and sounds from IWD for an authentic IWD2Tutu experience, doesn't that constitute the bulk of the size of the IWD installation? What wouldn't you need from an IWD installation? And if you installed IWD2Tutu in an EasyTutu kind of fashion, wouldn't it clone your BG2 install as well?If IWD can be ported to BG2 TUTU-style it would save a lot of space on the HDD.
Edited by Ascension64, 01 May 2006 - 05:08 AM.
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Retired Modder
Note: I do not respond to profile comments/personal messages in regards to troubleshooting my modifications. Please post on the public forums instead.
Baldur's Gate Trilogy-WeiDU and Mods
Throne of Bhaal Extender (TobEx)
Contributions: (NWN2) A Deathstalker (voice acting) - (IWD2) IWD2 NPC Project (soundset editing) - (Misc) SHS PC Soundsets (voice acting)
Legacy: (BG/Tutu/BGT) Beregost Crash Fixer 1.9 (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Enable conversations with charmed/dominated creatures (18 Jul 10) - (BG2) Experience Corrections (18 Jul 10) - (Misc) Platform Conversion Utility RC2 (13 Feb 10)
#51
Grim Squeaker
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Posted 01 May 2006 - 07:17 AM
Would it? If you needed the tilesets, music, and sounds from IWD for an authentic IWD2Tutu experience, doesn't that constitute the bulk of the size of the IWD installation? What wouldn't you need from an IWD installation? And if you installed IWD2Tutu in an EasyTutu kind of fashion, wouldn't it clone your BG2 install as well?If IWD can be ported to BG2 TUTU-style it would save a lot of space on the HDD.
It only copies what's actually necessary for using the BG2 engine. So all in all I imagine the install sizes would be about the same between IWD and IWDtoBG2, but one would have a better engine.
Edited by Grim Squeaker, 01 May 2006 - 08:17 AM.
"You alone can make my song take flight..."
#52
-domi_ash-
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 10:39 AM
I have been hearing of the IWD1 to BG2 project on and off for quite a while, and needless to say I am very interested and excited about any project that will open IWD1 and IWD2 to the introduction of the joinable NPCs. In that regard, IWD1 is a safer bet, because while IWD2 appeals much more to me personally, it is to a larger degree due to the ruleset/gameplay environment, and every discussion I have had up to this point with the gurus confirmed that unfortunately its castrated variant of the IE cannot be updated to support jNPCs.
If IWD1 to BG2 shows up I would definetly be revamping my current IWD2 jNPCs for it. So, yes, as a modder I am one who is *very* interested in such a platform being developped.
What I would like to hear though is more voices from the players. *Is* there interest to moving away from Bhaalspawn's storyline and playing a more interaction-friendly versions of IWD1 and 2? Or is Vlad right, and the demand is only for more of the same old hat BG2? After all, despite the perfect modding platform, the amount of the NPCs developped for TUTU is still very low (3), and frankly, it is one very big disheartening factor for me.
On the plus side, unlike BG1, IWD1/IWD2 is a completely uncharted territory, with very low % of players playing it as many times as they did BG1 and BG2. IWD1 and 2 offer unique modding opportunities for the NPC-based mods. For modders.
So, the question is, can we match Imoens and Jaheiras, and provide a player with an incentive to build the party of the non-Bioware created NPCs, which is not what we see in BG1/2, when people play with their old favorites plus the modded? And can we break the player apathy which lead to the current stagnation of modding around the custom NPCs for BG2 which are played at a neck-breaking speed, going through the motions to see the new content?
If IWD1 to BG2 shows up I would definetly be revamping my current IWD2 jNPCs for it. So, yes, as a modder I am one who is *very* interested in such a platform being developped.
What I would like to hear though is more voices from the players. *Is* there interest to moving away from Bhaalspawn's storyline and playing a more interaction-friendly versions of IWD1 and 2? Or is Vlad right, and the demand is only for more of the same old hat BG2? After all, despite the perfect modding platform, the amount of the NPCs developped for TUTU is still very low (3), and frankly, it is one very big disheartening factor for me.
On the plus side, unlike BG1, IWD1/IWD2 is a completely uncharted territory, with very low % of players playing it as many times as they did BG1 and BG2. IWD1 and 2 offer unique modding opportunities for the NPC-based mods. For modders.
So, the question is, can we match Imoens and Jaheiras, and provide a player with an incentive to build the party of the non-Bioware created NPCs, which is not what we see in BG1/2, when people play with their old favorites plus the modded? And can we break the player apathy which lead to the current stagnation of modding around the custom NPCs for BG2 which are played at a neck-breaking speed, going through the motions to see the new content?
#53
AnnabelleRose
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:02 AM
In defense of Vlad, NEJ is not a true "pirated copy" of IWD. Cusre, it has the same content, but it is presented in an entirely diffrent method, and with the whole traveling in time bit the story is changed. Not to mention it is not as linear as IWD.
So by those standards, it is not a pirated copy for those who cannot buy a game no longer sold at retail.
As for the blank slate conversion... As much as I love Vlad's work, playing it vanilla and being able to mod new quests and NPCs?
I love it, I would gladly lend what little support I could, and possibly try to make a few mods for the engine if it is ever released.
So by those standards, it is not a pirated copy for those who cannot buy a game no longer sold at retail.
As for the blank slate conversion... As much as I love Vlad's work, playing it vanilla and being able to mod new quests and NPCs?
I love it, I would gladly lend what little support I could, and possibly try to make a few mods for the engine if it is ever released.
- The transitioned former modder once known as MTS.
#54
Grim Squeaker
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 11:39 AM
I disagree on the piracy. He's distributing the content and that's enough.
But anyway, a conversion would be very useful, because I'd love to explore a relatively new plot with NPCs. The thing is no matter how many cool mods I install for BG2 now, I rush through the BioWare material just to see the next new bit of content e.g. the next lovetalk. It'd be nice to have new NPCs and still enjoy a relatively fresh plot (from my point of view).
But anyway, a conversion would be very useful, because I'd love to explore a relatively new plot with NPCs. The thing is no matter how many cool mods I install for BG2 now, I rush through the BioWare material just to see the next new bit of content e.g. the next lovetalk. It'd be nice to have new NPCs and still enjoy a relatively fresh plot (from my point of view).
"You alone can make my song take flight..."
#55
-domi_ash-
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Posted 04 May 2006 - 01:19 PM
It's not only the new plot, but the conversational topics, interjections and setting. In other word, it is a departure from the tiring sameness of the BG1-2 centrism on Bhaal, heritage, stolen soul and Cowled Wizards. It is a chance to write conversations without Aerie's wings, Khalid's death and Valygar's hatred of magic. However, will people want to invest into getting to know the whole bunch of the strangers. We hold the same audience as the fan-fic, the audience notorious for becoming attached to the intimately familiar heroes and wanting more and more stories about them. Another underwater stone I ran into while working on the IWD2 bunch was that Player 1 needs at least a tentative background. While it is canonized in BG1-2, it is not canonized in IWD1-2. Hence, even if you do the conversion as a blank, every NPC pack will potentially have a different treatment of the protagonist's past, reducing the possibility of the cross-mod content, which will be a very important thing if IWD conversion is to provide a player with a choice of NPCs comparable to that of BG1-2.
#56
Posted 04 May 2006 - 09:23 PM
Have you tried Classic Adventures? It is a completely new storyline with a new set of NPC?s. I feel the Bhaal storyline to be kind of boring after replaying it so many times. (not to offend anyone but I feel a lot of great ideas could be used in a TC.) Why not check out this total conversion. Who knows maybe someday someone will be modding CA.
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#57
-domi_ash-
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 05:53 AM
Yes, if you look through the thread, CA was mentioned as an example of the TC that was completed in the modding community.
Where IWD1 TUTU will differ from it is that the framework for it will be set up by the existing under-used professionally made game, which has its pluses and minuses. The hope is that setting it up for modders via the conversion will make it more attractive to a player, and adds replayability to it. It is a very different thing than a TC, because a TC relies on a lot more things to appeal to the player: mastery of graphics, quest content, storylines and NPCs. The thesis is that a TC has to struggle and stretch its teams resources to match BioWARE/Interplay quality, since we all know that it takes quite a number of payed and coordinated professionals to create a game. As a result a TC is nearly doomed to end up as a collection of edited areas borrowed from the IE compatible games with the inferrior quality and quantity of the dialogues as compared to BioWARE work. A conversion of older BioWARE/Interplay game and opening them to modding, though will theoretically allow a modder to focus on what she/he does the best and hopefully produce content that will match Bio's quality - because there is less to worry about (ie one quest as opposite to twenty, and a handfull of joinable charcaters as opposite to a hundred joinable and scenery).
Where IWD1 TUTU will differ from it is that the framework for it will be set up by the existing under-used professionally made game, which has its pluses and minuses. The hope is that setting it up for modders via the conversion will make it more attractive to a player, and adds replayability to it. It is a very different thing than a TC, because a TC relies on a lot more things to appeal to the player: mastery of graphics, quest content, storylines and NPCs. The thesis is that a TC has to struggle and stretch its teams resources to match BioWARE/Interplay quality, since we all know that it takes quite a number of payed and coordinated professionals to create a game. As a result a TC is nearly doomed to end up as a collection of edited areas borrowed from the IE compatible games with the inferrior quality and quantity of the dialogues as compared to BioWARE work. A conversion of older BioWARE/Interplay game and opening them to modding, though will theoretically allow a modder to focus on what she/he does the best and hopefully produce content that will match Bio's quality - because there is less to worry about (ie one quest as opposite to twenty, and a handfull of joinable charcaters as opposite to a hundred joinable and scenery).
#58
Creepin
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 06:55 AM
What I don't understand is why is it ever bothers you? As if it's not enough to be forced to share the planet with those brainless bloody bastards who makes brandishing with copyrights and alike crap and spoiling other people's fun their official jobI disagree on the piracy. He's distributing the content and that's enough.
, but to have turncoats at our side of barricade?
Edited by Creepin, 05 May 2006 - 06:57 AM.
The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)
#59
grogerson
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 08:25 AM
Creepin, as one moderator stated, this site is in the US, and operates under US law. Agree or disagree with the law, it is still the law. And sites like this walk a fine line with the game makers/owners. Please redirect your arguement on this elsewhere.
leahnkain, I have nothing against any TC in progress, but there are too many unknowns with them for many of us, including whether they'll be completed or not.
This thread is simply to discuss the potential for porting IWD to BG2, BGT style or TUTU style, and to follow up on a previous attempt.
I'm no modder, but this idea has me considering getting involved with it.
Any story problems can be fixed with a tweak. Technical problems (the "bit" coding) is another matter.
What do those "bit" codes do, and can they be replaced with another command with similar effect?
What about the death variables? Why are they, and how do they work?
leahnkain, I have nothing against any TC in progress, but there are too many unknowns with them for many of us, including whether they'll be completed or not.
This thread is simply to discuss the potential for porting IWD to BG2, BGT style or TUTU style, and to follow up on a previous attempt.
I'm no modder, but this idea has me considering getting involved with it.
Any story problems can be fixed with a tweak. Technical problems (the "bit" coding) is another matter.
What do those "bit" codes do, and can they be replaced with another command with similar effect?
What about the death variables? Why are they, and how do they work?
#60
Creepin
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Posted 05 May 2006 - 08:50 AM
No, this wasn't my point at all - I do understand that SHS stuff doesn't need potential problems with them lawyers. I was talking about common visitors, not bounded by any liabilities and responsibilities and still joining voice with the ArchenemyCreepin, as one moderator stated, this site is in the US, and operates under US law. Agree or disagree with the law, it is still the law. And sites like this walk a fine line with the game makers/owners. Please redirect your arguement on this elsewhere.
The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)
