39 replies to this topic

[Azazello]

Shar-Teel is in the jail. I don't know where Coran is. Forest of Tethir?

[smeagolheart]

Coran cannot join you because he is already involved in a quest involving Safana at the Forest of Tethyr, he won't join he feels bad and stuff for what happens

Edited by smeagolheart, 07 June 2008 - 05:58 AM.

[Ascension64]

Coran cannot join you because he is already involved in a quest involving Safana at the Forest of Tethyr.

[Ascension64]

*NOTE SPOILERS IN BLACK*

The list: - BG2-Place - event - joins?
Coran - Tethyr - quest - N
Garrick - Temple dist - - N
Quayle - Circus - quest - N
Safana - Tethyr - quest - N
Tiax - Spellhold - - N
(if they appear in vanilla BG2, then generally you cannot accept them into the party)

Shar-Teel - Gov/jail - - Y

Spoiler

Yeslick - Temple District - - Y
Alora - Trademeet on left-side of Mazzy's house - - Y
Kivan - Windspear Hills (AR1100) - - Y
Xan - Government District near main entrance - - Y
Branwen - Temple District left-side of doorway - - Y
Skie - Transition with the party - - N/A
Kagain - Gates District - - Y
Eldoth - Transition with the party - - N/A

Edited by Ascension64, 21 June 2008 - 03:43 PM.

[Kulyok]

Xan - Government District near main entrance - - Y

I do wonder, however, if this particular tweak was done with malevolent intent, to confuse the user, as Xan BG2 mod specifically has been placing Xan near the main entrance of Government District for two and a half years. I don't know what came earlier, but if my mod did, I'd rather BGT Tweaks did NOT put their silent Xan where I put my talking one.

[Ascension64]

Xan - Government District near main entrance - - Y

I do wonder, however, if this particular tweak was done with malevolent intent, to confuse the user, as Xan BG2 mod specifically has been placing Xan near the main entrance of Government District for two and a half years. I don't know what came earlier, but if my mod did, I'd rather BGT Tweaks did NOT put their silent Xan where I put my talking one.

I can't exactly remember. It was suggested by someone else. Nevertheless, it is clear that both shouldn't be installed together anyway, so I don't see why that is a problem.

[Kulyok]

Because if it was indeed suggested, because BG2 Xan mod used the place, it's not an unfortunate coincidence, but plagiarism of the first water.

[Kulyok]

Version 5 (25 Dec 2006)

- Added component ‘Import all NPCs into Shadows of Amn’

And we have a winner. The entrance to the Government District was chosen way after Xan was released, only to confuse Xan users. On my forums, I already got a few reports("Two Xans in the same place!") and spent hours researching the problem - all because of your tweak attaching itself to my work. Please, change the place for BGT Tweaks Xan in BG2.

[Azazello]

Xan - Government District near main entrance - - Y

I do wonder, however, if this particular tweak was done with malevolent intent, to confuse the user, as Xan BG2 mod specifically has been placing Xan near the main entrance of Government District for two and a half years. I don't know what came earlier, but if my mod did, I'd rather BGT Tweaks did NOT put their silent Xan where I put my talking one.

I can't exactly remember. It was suggested by someone else. Nevertheless, it is clear that both shouldn't be installed together anyway, so I don't see why that is a problem.

Because if it was indeed suggested, because BG2 Xan mod used the place, it's not an unfortunate coincidence, but plagiarism of the first water.

Version 5 (25 Dec 2006)

- Added component ?Import all NPCs into Shadows of Amn?

And we have a winner. The entrance to the Government District was chosen way after Xan was released, only to confuse Xan users. On my forums, I already got a few reports("Two Xans in the same place!") and spent hours researching the problem - all because of your tweak attaching itself to my work. Please, change the place for BGT Tweaks Xan in BG2.

Calm down, Kulyok. There was no 'malevolent intent' here. I remember how Xan got there -- it was me!

I was part of the testing and I chose for places to put the NPCs. I 'borrowed' locations for the vanilla NPCs from TDD, and I now remember that I took Xan's spot from your mod. The intent was just for testing purposes, as I didn't want the NPCs to land on top of each other, or into a blackhole or something.

You see? Nothing 'malevolent'. (Maybe 'malicious'. ) Strong words for so simple a mistake.

I agree with you--> Xan should be moved somewhere else. Still love me?

You're still going to get users asking you about the second Xan, as you've become the NPC's mama-san. Now, you won't have to spend "hours researching the problem".

BTW none of the vanilla NPCs are "Silent" if BG1NPC is installed before this component -- they have their dialogue/romances(/maybe even quests) left over from BG1.

In fact, Ascension64, before you update the component, I'ld like to recommend a couple extra changes to it.

Edited by Azazello, 10 July 2008 - 05:38 PM.

[Ascension64]

I agree with you--> Xan should be moved somewhere else. Still love me?

snip

In fact, Ascension64, before you update the component, I'ld like to recommend a couple extra changes to it.

OK, where would you like Xan now, and what extra changes did you want?

[Leomar]

I agree with you--> Xan should be moved somewhere else. Still love me?

You're still going to get users asking you about the second Xan, as you've become the NPC's mama-san. Now, you won't have to spend "hours researching the problem".

BTW none of the vanilla NPCs are "Silent" if BG1NPC is installed before this component -- they have their dialogue/romances(/maybe even quests) left over from BG1.

In fact, Ascension64, before you update the component, I'ld like to recommend a couple extra changes to it.

For BGT without Kulyok's Xan it sounds good. But if you want to install a megamod with BGT and Kulyok's Xan together you can meet with Xan in your group Xan, then. The problem with two Xan's is still there. Not now at the same place, but in the same game. Should we not find a solution for that?

Greetings Leomar

[Ascension64]

I agree with you--> Xan should be moved somewhere else. Still love me?

You're still going to get users asking you about the second Xan, as you've become the NPC's mama-san. Now, you won't have to spend "hours researching the problem".

BTW none of the vanilla NPCs are "Silent" if BG1NPC is installed before this component -- they have their dialogue/romances(/maybe even quests) left over from BG1.

In fact, Ascension64, before you update the component, I'ld like to recommend a couple extra changes to it.

For BGT without Kulyok's Xan it sounds good. But if you want to install a megamod with BGT and Kulyok's Xan together you can meet with Xan in your group Xan, then. The problem with two Xan's is still there. Not now at the same place, but in the same game. Should we not find a solution for that?

Greetings Leomar

For consistency issues, don't install the two together, simple as that.

[Hoppy]

Like the original read me said the two were incompatible. I just leave the tweak out and use NPC mods for BG2. I still have problems with TDD and TS being incompatible (minor in some cases and major in others) with BGT itself.

[Azazello]

I agree with you--> Xan should be moved somewhere else. Still love me?

snip

In fact, Ascension64, before you update the component, I'ld like to recommend a couple extra changes to it.

OK, where would you like Xan now, and what extra changes did you want?

I'll PM/email you this weekend.

As for Xan, does it matter?

Kulyok, why don't you decide?

[Jarno Mikkola]

I'll PM/email you this weekend.
As for Xan, does it matter?
Kulyok, why don't you decide?

Well, the best solution would be (to compatibility etc.)that the Kulyok's Xan would be seen as the proper Xan, thus if it's installed, the BGT Tweaks pack wouldn't install the Xan in that component, but everyone else in it. So yes, it kinda does. And thus Kulyok wouldn't need to decide.

[Azazello]

I'll PM/email you this weekend.
As for Xan, does it matter?
Kulyok, why don't you decide?

Well, the best solution would be (to compatibility etc.)that the Kulyok's Xan would be seen as the proper Xan, thus if it's installed, the BGT Tweaks pack wouldn't install the Xan in that component, but everyone else in it. So yes, it kinda does. And thus Kulyok wouldn't need to decide.

This is not the best solution:

(1) Kulyok's Xan is not "the proper Xan", whatever that means. The Xan from BGTTweaks is the real Xan, the original, the one you first meet in BG1.
(2) Kulyok's Xan mod is usually installed after BGT, so it'll be troublesome for BGTTweaks to 'forward-check' for another mod.
(3) Kulyok doesn't need to decide - it's A64's final decision. It is a gesture of reconciliation to let her to pick the new spot.

Edited by Azazello, 23 June 2008 - 03:29 PM.

[cmorgan]

Leomar, you may want to deal with this the way you would with multiple Branwen mods and multiple Aerie Relationship/Romance/whatever mods - while making them technically compatible is simple, explaining why there are (for example, as there actually are four of these out there ) four Branwens (two with minor dialogue and two silent) is a completely different matter. You may have to have a branching option for items like this which directly conflict. I can see how folks following a Mega install might install more than one, the same way currently on Tutu we can install both bg1npc's and SCS's "Make SharTeel Unkillable" component by not reading carefully.

I suggest *not* moving the component location, for the simple reason is now it is a known conflict between two mods which specifically state they are incompatible with eachother. If you have two Xans in the same spot, then you have installed two components/mods that were not meant to be installed at the same time. The author has a quick response "you should not install BGT Tweaks component X with BG2 Xan" and need spend no more time searching for answers, and the user is faced with the obvious mistake and can do a forum search for the answer.

Moving Xan (silent) to a new location hides the problem and makes it harder to diagnose when a user has troubles finding out why "Xan won't talk to me, and I wanted to play his BG2 romance". If a user is not going to read the documenation and follow it, then not much short of having Xan and his silent doopelganger staring at the player's face is going to stop them. There will be no technical overlap, as the 0# prefix handles it.