5286 replies to this topic

[Roxanne]

Question: I know the original game mod compilation is outdated, but what exactly does that mean? We can't mod them because of Reasons? We might get more bugs than expected? I want to play the original with as much contenct as possible

Mods have been updated, some big ones include new components, new mods have been added, other became unusable, new conflicts have been detected or some updated mods require a new install sequence or dependency etc.

What exactly that means for such a complex construction that has not been maintained for 16+ months you can only guess. I am afraid nobody will know unless he or she tries to update the thing now.

[jastey]

BWS outdated for original game could mean:
1. Mods were updated but BWS expects older versions, so the fixes in the BWPFixpack do no longer match. If you are lucky, the newer mod versions have the fixes included. If you tell BWS to apply the fixes and you are unlucky it might introduce bugs into your game.
2. Mods might have more components now but BWS doesn't know about them so they do not get installed.
3. BWS might still flag mods as incompatible although the mods were made compatible (and also the other way around, of course)

Edited by jastey, 01 April 2018 - 11:04 PM.

[Roxanne]

BWS outdated for original game means:
1. Mods were updated but BWS expects older versions, so the fixes in the BWPFixpack do no longer match. If you are lucky, the newer mod versions have the fixes included. If you tell BWS to apply the fixes and you are unlucky it might introduce bugs into your game.
2. Mods might have more components now but BWS doesn't know about them so they do not get installed.
3. BWS might still flag mods as incompatible although the mods were made compatible (and also the other way around, of course)

Do you have an example for 1.?

If a mod has been updated and was subject to BWFixpack, the fix there should have been removed unless there was proof that it is still needed. If you have such a case, this may easily be corrected. That is a fixpack thing and requires no BWS knowledge.

[jastey]

Sorry, I meant it as a general thing that could happen. If I know of an outdated fix I'll definitely report about it. EDIT: Edited my above post.

Edited by jastey, 01 April 2018 - 11:05 PM.

[Roxanne]

Sorry, I meant it as a general thing that could happen. If I know of an outdated fix I'll definitely report about it. EDIT: Edited my above post.

Understood.

And you are right, it is a possible issue. There were reports about that in the past and fixpack tried to correct them. I have not seen one reported during the last months, but they might have appeared in other forums, that is why I asked.

[Jakar]

Corwin NPC and Item Upgrade mods won't download because of "master.zip" entry in BigWorldSetup\BiG World Setup\Config\BG2EE\mod.ini.

Also, i would like to ask why there are no new mods in compilation? For example, Southern Edge or Fade NPC, Skie Cost? Also, why not to include Tortured Souls (Vlad's compilation)? Even if it would work only with clean BG install, maybe someone would like to play this mod, or to test it with other mods, to see if it works.

 

It tooks about hour or two for every github mod to redownload (even if there are no changes). Maybe it would be better to delete file size from mod.ini for these mods? p.s. ok. this tweak doesn't work and i couldn't get why mod's randomly redownloads on every install. i deleted all of these listed mods size number from BigWorldSetup\BiG World Setup\Config\BG2EE\mod.ini  But redownloaded Bonehill, ROT and PPE (biggest ones :DD ) and several smaller mods.

 

should i edit here (too)?: c:\BigWorldSetup\BiG World Setup\Config\Global\

 

 

-Summary-
These selected mods are missing from the downloads folder (includes archives with unexpected size, which are probably old versions):

WeiDU
Jim's Fixes and Tweaks
Check the Bodies (EE-Version)
Northern Tales of the Sword Coast
Region of Terror EET Version
Sandrah Saga I - Sandrah Appears
Sandrah Saga II - Return to Faerun
Sandrah Saga III - Time of Troubles Revisited
Alternatives
Dungeon Crawl
Expanded Thief Stronghold
Fading Promises
I Shall Never Forget
Mage Stronghold
The Grey Clan Episode I: In Candlelight
The Sellswords
Vault
Adalon's Blood - Silberdrachenblut
Amber NPC for EE
Arath
Dace Linton
Iylos
Longer Road EET
Tiax NPC
BG1 NPC Project
Corwin NPC for EET
Shine On Caelar
aTweaks
EET (Enhanced Edition Trilogy) Tweaks
SoD Banter Restoration
Tweaks Anthology
lefreut's enhanced UI
Portraits Portraits Everywhere

Edited by Jakar, 02 April 2018 - 05:29 AM.

[The Imp]

Also, i would like to ask why there are no new mods in compilation?

Have you seen them requested in the request thread ? Maybe it's because they have not been tested ! You can do that by installing the mod after BWS, or during it when you pause the BWS ... so for example the EET_END doesn't run. 

[Jakar]

Also, i would like to ask why there are no new mods in compilation?

Have you seen them requested in the request thread ? Maybe it's because they have not been tested ! You can do that by installing the mod after BWS, or during it when you pause the BWS ... so for example the EET_END doesn't run. 

 

But i see the point for them to be in BWS for the same reason - it would be easier to test them without trying to pause or breaking things by installing them after BWS. Also, i'm not that good at seeing, where one or another mod "could" or "should" be installed. Even if it's not tested to be included in main install, there are guys, who know better than i, where one or another mod could possibly go and where to start testing from.
These mods could be marked as red, they could be not included in any of automated install, but the easier possibility to try it without any warranty doesn't look that bad.

Edited by Jakar, 02 April 2018 - 03:51 AM.

[The Imp]

But i see the point for them to be in BWS for the same reason -

Yeah, then why are they not in the requests ? There's a template just for this purpose. This helps a person to look through code.

Yeah, lets make a whole new mess with bad mods, when we can't fix the last one either...

[Jakar]

@Jakar Indeed there are guys, who know where one or another mod could possibly go. But it takes a lot of unnecessary work to even put a mod into BWS and maintain it later. So far there was only few people who did it until they were burned out and quit. If you really want to have new mod added to BWS, the best way would be to contact author and ask him to fill mod request template.

 

thank's. sorry, didn't thought about that included to the list untested mods have to be maintained somehow differently than already included. and i only now read that there could be some problematic modders who wouldn't like to be included in BWS.

[Jakar]

But i see the point for them to be in BWS for the same reason -

Yeah, then why are they not in the requests ? There's a template just for this purpose. This helps a person to look through code.

Yeah, lets make a whole new mess with bad mods, when we can't fix the last one either...

Yes, thanks, now i know, how new mods comes to BWS. Sorry, didn't think about to google for this thread. But i think that you are wrong about the new mods in BWS. Maintainers doesn't HAVE to do something with them, if they don't want to. If mods would be included, they would be marked as red and they have their right to exist there. Maybe someday some pal would test those mods to install with his megamod, and could check that it works ok, or maybe there's something gamebreaking. After that someone could see if there's a point to make compatibility or no. One can not fix bugs or incompatibility, if there's no convenient possibility to test mods.
The biggest problem here, i didn't think about, is that there're modders who don't like the idea to enter megamodding world. I guess asking Vlad to fill the request template would be suicide mission...

[jastey]

The biggest problem here, i didn't think about, is that there're modders who don't like the idea to enter megamodding world. I guess asking Vlad to fill the request template would be suicide mission...

This "biggest" problem is one modder in all those years. Everyone else is trying to make mods compatible as much as possible.

Including it into BWS is a difficult step, because it actually requires knowledge on how to do this.

Taking untested mods into there is a very bad idea.
1. Players using BWS expect a one-click-works-all solution and will not be happy if they get bugs into their game.
2. Mods included with status "red" will probably stay so or and get a bad reputation of being buggy for no reason along the way although the mod was already updated 25 times in the meantime.
3. If players are testing a mod it is usually advantageous if they actually know about it and are ready to give feedback at the appropriate place (i.e. where the modder can see it). I had no problem to find players who are ready to test my mods. All the other players have to wait until that is done before they get the new version as an official download. But then, what use does it make to rush the release if the mod is not fully tested?

We already have a lot of rumors going around - there being modders [plural] not wanting their mods being fixed or included into mega mod installs is one of them. I would like to spare more of these kind.

Edited by jastey, 02 April 2018 - 08:05 AM.

[enderandrew]

1. Players using BWS expect a one-click-works-all solution and will not be happy if they get bugs into their game.
2. Mods included with status "red" will probably stay so or and get a bad reputation of being buggy for no reason along the way although the mod was already updated 25 times in the meantime.

People who want the simple one-click solution aren't manually including red mods.

This becomes a catch 22.

You're saying a mod put into BWS but listed red will never get tested. Except it is hard to test a mod at all in a mega-mod installation unless you put it into BWS to begin with. Most people don't know the ideal place of when to pause an install to manually install the new mod for testing. If you want a mod tested to see how compatible it is with everything else, you somewhat need to put it in BWS to allow people to test it.

[jastey]

Thank you for clarification. Maybe we are talking about different things. I am talking about the first test runs of a not-yet fully tested mod. These really should not go into BWS.
If we are talking about tested mods, principally I am all with you.

But, alas - BWS is in need of a maintainer for the original games as it is. If there will be a volunteer, I would assume he or she has enough work to bring it up-to-date for the existent mods without increasing maintenance time by varying mods' status as well.
Do not underestimate the time it takes to update mods and include new ones in BWS. It is much work, already.

All I did some time ago was updating a linklist for BWP (Leonardo's Big World Project) which was outdated at the time. I burnt out as well.

Edited by jastey, 02 April 2018 - 08:46 AM.

[Roxanne]

Just to sum up the efforts that have been made in the past (and which lead to the BWS situation as it is now):

 

- BWS was created at a time when there was a limited number of modding forums, one game *family*, and a fully dedicated BWS creator) maintainer

The maintainer scanned those forums for new mods and mod updates and put them into the tool. Modders had nothing to do, new and even untested mods were included to give them a larger exposure and more feedback to find and correct bugs.

- Original creator was lost and a series of follow up maintainers took care. The scope and the number of mods got bigger and bigger. Maintenance became a full time occupation but also some mods in the collection got abandoned (i.e. no longer fixed if needed).

- In addition, new ideas like *selections* and *recommendations* were implemented, adding even more functionality but also more stuff to maintain.

- EE games were released and now two different *game platforms* with different requirements and ways to handle mods weren included. The thing very quickly reached a status of being hardly manageable for a single person.

- An effort was made to tie in the modders more closely to capture all the data necessary for maintaining the tool (template) but users were petted in the past to have everything presented without the need to provide input. So this failed for the most part.

 

Then happened what Alien described as *one maintainer burnt out after another*. Since more than a year there is none anymore

 

Today we have a small number of modders who try to keep parts of the tool where their mods are involved in some shape. Nobody can go around to pick up new mods or track updates unless they are notified. Those notifications are few and only cover a limited part of the whole BWS.

Due to this, the complete usability for the classic game has already been lost.

 

The list of things that could be done is getting longer every day.

The list of those able or willing to do them is getting shorter.

[jastey]

Although my post was not sent when Roxanne typed his, I think it sums it up pretty nicely what I meant with "much work" to maintain BWS. And I'm not even doing it.

Edited by jastey, 02 April 2018 - 08:50 AM.

[enderandrew]

I try a new maximized-type install every now and then, and I'm still running into the same errors.
 

 

[SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d] ERROR at line 1 column 0-19
Near Text: -
Parsing.Parse_error
ERROR: parsing [SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d]: Parsing.Parse_error
ERROR: compiling [SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d]!
Stopping installation because of error.
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [Mod Interactions], rolling back to previous state

 

Then it won't allow me to continue because Mod Interactions isn't installing and I'm forced to kill the BWS install. Obviously SandrahNPC works for other people. This is one of the mods I'm most interested in since it has a story that goes across the entire EET game. Something else in my install is causing problems and I can't figure out what it is.

I am testing on top of the 2.5 EET beta build, but that shouldn't be a problem in theory.

I've uploaded all the log files here. If there are other files I could/should upload or if there is anything else I can do to help with troubleshooting, let me know.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

[The Imp]

...
Taking untested mods into there is a very bad idea.
1. ...

This is actually a very good description of what happened with Vlad's mods by the by. It was not really him by himself, but people that also asked fixes for old versions of his mods that BW Project used to use. So as the middle finger got raised, he became a legend also because he was part of site that became the antithesis of the BiG World principle, "a single mod that ruled all". I am talking about the non-other than the original Improved Anvil.

The BW Project went ahead and there were mistakes and successes ...
There's no doubt that one can take either stance and be correct in multiple ways. That's a sign of life. But The BWS was born from that.

- BWS was created at a time when there was a limited number of modding forums, one game *family*, and a fully dedicated BWS creator) maintainer

Right, so there were no such things as BGT, BGTutu, EasyTutu, TC's like Classic Adventure, IWDinBG2, BG2inIWD2 to mention a few. The only thing was the BGT-weidu, but hows that possible ? Was it the largest and made to fit the most possible audience, yes. Yeah. That's the answer.

[Roxanne]

I try a new maximized-type install every now and then, and I'm still running into the same errors.
 

 

[SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d] ERROR at line 1 column 0-19
Near Text: -
Parsing.Parse_error
ERROR: parsing [SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d]: Parsing.Parse_error
ERROR: compiling [SandrahNPC/Mods/TenyaNPC.d]!
Stopping installation because of error.
Stopping installation because of error.

ERROR Installing [Mod Interactions], rolling back to previous state

 

Then it won't allow me to continue because Mod Interactions isn't installing and I'm forced to kill the BWS install. Obviously SandrahNPC works for other people. This is one of the mods I'm most interested in since it has a story that goes across the entire EET game. Something else in my install is causing problems and I can't figure out what it is.

I am testing on top of the 2.5 EET beta build, but that shouldn't be a problem in theory.

I've uploaded all the log files here. If there are other files I could/should upload or if there is anything else I can do to help with troubleshooting, let me know.

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing

I suggest to open Setup-SandrahNPC.tp2 in the SandrahNPC folder with a text editor and at line 7062

delete this block

OUTER_SET actual_185 = (STATE_WHICH_SAYS ~Well I haven't killed anyone yet.~ FROM ~B2#TenyJ~)
COPY ~SandrahNPC/mods/TenyaNPC.d~ ~SandrahNPC/mods/TenyaNPC.d~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~185~ ~%actual_185%~

I assume that whatever system/setup/configuration you use writes some erroneous symbol into the TenyaNPC.d file that afterwards fails to compile. It is supposed to overwrite a dummy state reference with the actual dialogue state in your game but the overwriting by your system produces the error. This explains why other people do not have this error.

[enderandrew]

I suggest to open Setup-SandrahNPC.tp2 in the SandrahNPC folder with a text editor and at line 7062
delete this block

OUTER_SET actual_185 = (STATE_WHICH_SAYS ~Well I haven't killed anyone yet.~ FROM ~B2#TenyJ~)
COPY ~SandrahNPC/mods/TenyaNPC.d~ ~SandrahNPC/mods/TenyaNPC.d~
REPLACE_TEXTUALLY ~185~ ~¬tual_185%~

I assume that whatever system/setup/configuration you use writes some erroneous symbol into the TenyaNPC.d file that afterwards fails to compile. It is supposed to overwrite a dummy state reference with the actual dialogue state in your game but the overwriting by your system produces the error. This explains why other people do not have this error.

After it extracts everything, I'll try that. The odd thing is that I'm not seeing any weird characters in the SandrahNPC/mods/TenyaNPC.d file. I'll upload that as well. But here is the line 1 it can't parse and notepad++ shows it is in UTF-8 format
 

 

EXTEND_TOP B2#TenyJ 185 #6

https://drive.google...iew?usp=sharing