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#101 Roxanne

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 01:35 PM

2- Sandrah is not compatible with Level 1 NPCs components after 230 (changing original classes of NPCs).
Is this actually conceptual, or code inclusive... such as "let's check for F-sakes if imoen is a *insert*, and if not we throw grap at the player and turn off his computer" ?
Yeah, the character might get a reward that they won't be able to utilize, but so what... it seemed to me that if the player made Imoen to be a Kensai-> cleric, he might not actually need the +1 mage spell bonus anyways, but that's not a reason to throw a hissyfit about it. Or reduce the story content, even if it was about a mage-Imoen.

Sandrah adds some additional quests for some NPCs that are related to their original class, e.g there is a paladin related quest that will trigger when Sandrah and one of the paladins (Keldorn, Ajantis, Saerileth, Anomen) is in the party. As it includes dialogues and interactions those are linked to the dlg and bcs files of the candidate NPCs, not ot their class. Thus such a quest will trigger for Anomen, the kensai, in the same way as for Anomen, the paladin but will not make any sense at all.

Spoiler

Just a few examples, I will not give away all the plot of the mod in this post.

 

The point is that Level1 NPCs has a very long list of NPCs you can change. In a lot of cases such a change of their class and abilities is not very crucial, but for some it will make their story or quests obsolete. Cernd the bard makes as little sense as Chloe the mage.


Edited by Roxanne, 27 June 2015 - 01:45 PM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#102 The Imp

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 02:24 PM

Ahh, there, in that line:

makes as little sense as ...

... it doesn't need to make sense in the post edition phase. I thing I brought up the example where Elminster was a Fighter... MAJOR SPOILERS, then became a a Thief, and then a Cleric and then a Mage, in that order inside a one book, as he wasn't actually a human, but anyways... And then became a Archmage. The story was of course that he was a noble son of a lord, whose family got murdered and he ran away to become a street thief because he was left without a home, he then was taken in by a church(of Mystra), fell in love with the goddess Mystra, and went to help people. END OF MAJOR SPOILERS.
People can take roles that are not directly linked to the primary proficiency of their lives.
I doubt that anyone would make Chloe a mage, a thief perhaps because of the DEX bonuses, or one other kind of a fighter/ranger/paladin... but I bet that most of those can still be a primary fighter(because of stat points hello). And if the player wants to, he can mess with all the characters classes all they want, but their dialogs will still refer to them as "the original kind of a person". Not the 40 NPC assassins.

The reason why the Level 1 NPCs is so popular is because of this fact, that you can make up the ideal Class and Kit, weapon etc selection for your party optimization with any NPC you like and still have the dialog as if it was the original NPC !!!!!! And you do it inside the games current rules set.
So just let go of the "in my mind this character NEEDS to be this way", as others view it as far worse restriction than not being able to sleep with all the tavern wenches... and there's two mods that allows some of that, kinda to a various decrees.


Edited by The Imp, 27 June 2015 - 02:40 PM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#103 Bill Bisco

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 05:28 PM

When people use Level 1 NPCs to change a character class, they understand that it might possibly interfere with some roleplaying as there might be dialog that would apply to the original class.  That's normal and fine.  I wouldn't call that an incompatibility and people should have the freedom to mod NPCs differently if they really wish.


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#104 Roxanne

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 11:20 PM

Ahh, there, in that line:
makes as little sense as ...

... it doesn't need to make sense in the post edition phase. I thing I brought up the example where Elminster was a Fighter... MAJOR SPOILERS, then became a a Thief, and then a Cleric and then a Mage, in that order inside a one book, as he wasn't actually a human, but anyways... And then became a Archmage. The story was of course that he was a noble son of a lord, whose family got murdered and he ran away to become a street thief because he was left without a home, he then was taken in by a church(of Mystra), fell in love with the goddess Mystra, and went to help people. END OF MAJOR SPOILERS.
People can take roles that are not directly linked to the primary proficiency of their lives.
I doubt that anyone would make Chloe a mage, a thief perhaps because of the DEX bonuses, or one other kind of a fighter/ranger/paladin... but I bet that most of those can still be a primary fighter(because of stat points hello). And if the player wants to, he can mess with all the characters classes all they want, but their dialogs will still refer to them as "the original kind of a person". Not the 40 NPC assassins.

The reason why the Level 1 NPCs is so popular is because of this fact, that you can make up the ideal Class and Kit, weapon etc selection for your party optimization with any NPC you like and still have the dialog as if it was the original NPC !!!!!! And you do it inside the games current rules set.
So just let go of the "in my mind this character NEEDS to be this way", as others view it as far worse restriction than not being able to sleep with all the tavern wenches... and there's two mods that allows some of that, kinda to a various decrees.

 

 

When people use Level 1 NPCs to change a character class, they understand that it might possibly interfere with some roleplaying as there might be dialog that would apply to the original class.  That's normal and fine.  I wouldn't call that an incompatibility and people should have the freedom to mod NPCs differently if they really wish.

Just to clarify, it is not my intention to restrict any player to tweak his/her game in any way they want. All I try to do at this point is to say where my mod may conflict with some other aspects of a possible installation. This is in order to prevent disappointment for the player.

One of the major ideas behind the Sandrah mod is to provide a continuos story through the whole game, to tie a lot of existing odds and ends together and to resolve some contradictions in the storyline. It is not just another NPC with a handful of dialogues and quests. Of course you could handle her this way but I try to support rather those players who want to try the mod as it was intended to work.

Maybe talking about incompatability we could distinguish between what is technically feasible in the game and what still makes sense (even if that could differ as well from person to person).

Again, I just tried to warn that some tweaks will interfer to a large degree with the story, especially in Sandrah's case with the RtF sequel, but I also admit that a player who decided on these changes will know why his game has all these oddities and confusion in it.

I think it is only fair to point this out early, especially with a mod of this size and complexity.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#105 Roxanne

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Posted 27 June 2015 - 11:54 PM

BWP v15.2 released

The only reason for this update is to add the brand new BWP mods SandrahNPC and SandrahRTF for testing purposes. Player who want to test the beta of Sandrah are enabled to do a flawless installation in one go. Because of the many dependences and conflicts with other mods Sandrah is a little tricky to install. As always, this is handled by the BWP Installpack.
Otherwise there are no other changes in BWP v15.2 to the previous release.

The few minutes I played the first chapter of BG1 with Sandrah installed looked very promising and I would like to play the mod sooner rather than later.

I had the time now to download the new version and to take a look at it. Here are some comments:

 

1- SandrahNPC and RtF should be installed either after Haiass the Wolf or do not install Haiass when you have Sandrah installed. The mod adds improvements and additional contents to Haiass which will probably be partly overwritten again if you install Haiass after Sandrah. In some cases you might get a CtD in the RtF part while re-visiting original game areas (e.g. when you leave Irenicus dungeon during RtF).

 

2- Sandrah is not compatible with Level 1 NPCs components after 230 (changing original classes of NPCs).

 

3- Sandrah RtF is not compatible with the BGT Tweak Pack - "Import more NPCs into Shadow of Amn" components

Those will not be detected by the cleanup scripts of the mod and may lead to having NPCs twice in the game or having an NPC in the party that has become a quest character in RtF.

 

And a question - How is the second RtF Folder containing the area TIZ files added to the respective folder?

4- Sandrah both parts are not compatible with the "Teleport" mod.

The mod would allow you to teleport out of the new quest areas while quests are running but with no way to return. Using teleport within the RtF mod will make the sequel amost unplayable. Sandrah contains a similar capability for SoA, ToB and RtF that is compatible with the mod and provides equal functionality.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#106 The Imp

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 02:23 AM

Maybe talking about incompatability we could distinguish between what is technically feasible in the game and what still makes sense (even if that could differ as well from person to person).
These are mine: one is the factual, another is conceptual incompatibility.
4- Sandrah both parts are not compatible with the "Teleport" mod.
The mod would allow you to teleport out of the new quest areas while quests are running but with no way to return. Using teleport within the RtF mod will make the sequel amost unplayable. Sandrah contains a similar capability for SoA, ToB and RtF that is compatible with the mod and provides equal functionality.
Hah, the Teleport mods are done better than you think, as they can return the party automatically to the place they left, even if the game has no entrances to the area ... as it's done with leaving a marker when the spell is cast and that marker is used to return to it. Just like the Bhall Spawns ToB power of casting the pocket plane. As they are the very same structure that allows you to do this in the ToB.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#107 Roxanne

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 06:00 AM

Maybe talking about incompatability we could distinguish between what is technically feasible in the game and what still makes sense (even if that could differ as well from person to person).
These are mine: one is the factual, another is conceptual incompatibility.
4- Sandrah both parts are not compatible with the "Teleport" mod.
The mod would allow you to teleport out of the new quest areas while quests are running but with no way to return. Using teleport within the RtF mod will make the sequel amost unplayable. Sandrah contains a similar capability for SoA, ToB and RtF that is compatible with the mod and provides equal functionality.
Hah, the Teleport mods are done better than you think, as they can return the party automatically to the place they left, even if the game has no entrances to the area ... as it's done with leaving a marker when the spell is cast and that marker is used to return to it. Just like the Bhall Spawns ToB power of casting the pocket plane. As they are the very same structure that allows you to do this in the ToB.

 

You are partly correct, however...

The functions you quote use the StorePartyLocations() script before transporting you and by this you can return just like you describe. The problem comes up when you are in a longer quest sequence and e.g. rest your party - a lot of mods use the function for dream sequences to move the PC to the scene of the dream or cutscene etc and then returns him to the party afterwards. The system stores the last party location and overwrites previous ones. The same is true for the planar sphere spell.

If that happens you can only CLUA yourself back or use the worldmap if the area allows it.

Again one of the things that is not a no-go for an experienced player, but a nuisance if you have no information about why it does not work at all times like you would expect it - this is why I brought the issue to attention.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#108 Lollorian

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 09:13 AM

Hey guys! I'm tracking down the last few mods I'm missing and can't seem to find these anywhere:

 

- BTweaks and BTweaks Lite (I think this is B!Tweaks but I can't find a package without the exclamation in the modname)

- Mortis

- Multistronghold

 

Links would be great!

So since no one likes me (:crying:) and won't gimme links I used the BWS's internal link list to get the missing mods :P

 

Attaching it here to share the BWS' awesomeness! :cheers:

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#109 Leonardo Watson

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 11:17 PM

I made some changes to the installpack as Roxanne suggested.
Note: you can install Sandrah without any problems with the BWP installpack. However, that does not mean you can do the same with the BWS. BWS is the smarter tool but mostly it is not up to date.



#110 Roxanne

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Posted 28 June 2015 - 11:55 PM

I made some changes to the installpack as Roxanne suggested.
Note: you can install Sandrah without any problems with the BWP installpack. However, that does not mean you can do the same with the BWS. BWS is the smarter tool but mostly it is not up to date.

I am running a BWS installation of an expert megamod all-you-can have sort at the moment and Sandrah both parts are installed with it - but it required manual intervention to get the current version into the install and forcing the tool to accept it. I can only recommend this method to users with good experience and patience.

I have not tested BWP, I take Leonardo's word for it that it works.


Edited by Roxanne, 28 June 2015 - 11:56 PM.

The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#111 Roxanne

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:51 PM

I made some changes to the installpack as Roxanne suggested.
Note: you can install Sandrah without any problems with the BWP installpack. However, that does not mean you can do the same with the BWS. BWS is the smarter tool but mostly it is not up to date.

I found another possible incompability

between "SandrahRtF" and "Game over only on Party Dead"

>> in RtF the PC and Sandrah share a common mission that is crucial for their common survival. If one dies the other dies, too. The party dead mod would probably prevent this from happening for the PC, so if Sandrah dies you will be stuck in the game with no way to finish it.


The Sandrah Saga

another piece of *buggy, cheesy, unbalanced junk*

 


#112 Leonardo Watson

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 10:08 AM

BWP v15.3 released

There had been a few new corrections that require a small update:

Lollorian has revised and enlarged the whole Fixpack. Also he has added a new subcomponent to iiitem mod.
cmorgan has revised Aran Whitehand so it can be installed without any problems by Installpack.

Roxanne's suggestions are included.

I also have added two new mods. However it seems these two are two too much for WeiDU:
During installation of stratagems component 6000 "Smarter general AI" I got errors like this:
 

Failed to apply general-AI patch to GITH03 (error message Out of memory)
ERROR: [GITH03.CRE] -> [override/GITH03.CRE] Patching Failed (COPY) (Out of memory)
Stopping installation because of error.


or:
 

Failed to apply general-AI patch to JATERMIN (error message Out of memory)
ERROR: [JATERMIN.CRE] -> [override/JATERMIN.CRE] Patching Failed (COPY) (Out of
memory)
Stopping installation because of error.


or:
 

Failed to apply general-AI patch to SUMIK04 (error message Out of memory)
ERROR: [SUMIK04.CRE] -> [override/SUMIK04.CRE] Patching Failed (COPY) (Out of memory)
Stopping installation because of error.


There is an additional information in the Debug:
 

ERROR: Failure("hd")
Detailed error information can be found in the file SETUP-STRATAGEMS.DEBUG . For help troubleshooting installation problems, go to the Sword Coast Stratagems forum at forums.gibberlings3.net.
Automatically Skipping [Smarter general AI] because of error.


First I thought the listed files are damaged although I could not imagine why because until now I never met these problems.
I tried a second fresh installation and got exactly the same errors. I moved the files temporary out of the override folder and could install component 6000 successfully. When I added another mod I got the same error messages, however with other cre-files. The cre-files that had been failed before are now processed flawlessly.

Stratagems requires up to 1,4 GB internal memory during installation. My computer is equipped with 7 GB internal memory and 1 TB disk space, about the half is free. So my hardware equipment should be sufficiently dimensioned for the installation.

So the only thing I can think of is another case of "BWP now is too big for WeiDU" http://forums.pocket...p?topic=28057.0

 



#113 Chevalier

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 10:43 AM

Leonardo Watson,

 

I want to thank you for all your hard work!!!!  I fully read your last version of the BWP!  I used it to help make the decisions on what to install!!!

 

Thanks!!   :new_thumbs:  


I Ride for the King!


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#114 The Imp

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 11:45 AM

Stratagems requires up to 1,4 GB internal memory during installation. My computer,,,

Yeah, but how much of that can the program that's running the file consume out of that? There's limits to that. Example, Weidu.exe can only handle ~16Mb files before running out of space to write on(without COPY_LARGE which can't patch the files). It could be an architectural limitation like say not being flagged to be able to use the additional extended memory space, aka the "App can handle >2gb address space" -flag(according to CFF Explorer VIII for .exe in their file headers Characteristics).


Edited by The Imp, 07 July 2015 - 11:57 AM.

Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#115 dreamer2007

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 12:32 PM

Thank you very much again, Leonardo Watson! :cheers:



#116 Bill Bisco

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

We could contact Wisp from the Weidu forum on G3. She might be able to verify if this is a Weidu problem or not.
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#117 The Imp

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 01:54 PM

We could contact Wisp from the Weidu forum on G3. She might be able to verify if this is a Weidu problem or not.

You probably failed to understand that I didn't say this to be a weidu.exe problem. Cause that's not what it is, the SCS uses what's called Syntax/Semantic Language to generate a large amount of standardized scripts ... and the more those are in the game, the longer and more space it's going to take, and there can be loop holes which make them potentially infinite.
And I am pretty sure Wisp is a male, and he hangs mostly in the PPG forum, not in G3, as that's where the weidu forums are. Dun dun duuh.


Yep, Jarno Mikkola. my Mega Mod FAQ. Use of the BWS, and how to use it(scroll down that post a bit). 
OK, desert dweller, welcome to the sanity, you are free to search for the limit, it's out there, we drew it in the sand. Ouh, actually it was still snow then.. but anyways.


#118 Mike1072

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Posted 07 July 2015 - 10:53 PM


We could contact Wisp from the Weidu forum on G3. She might be able to verify if this is a Weidu problem or not.


You probably failed to understand that I didn't say this to be a weidu.exe problem. Cause that's not what it is, the SCS uses what's called Syntax/Semantic Language to generate a large amount of standardized scripts ... and the more those are in the game, the longer and more space it's going to take, and there can be loop holes which make them potentially infinite.  


 
Yeah, I'm pretty sure you've got the wrong link there. SSL stands for Strategems Scripting Language and it's just something DavidW wrote in Perl to generate IE scripts..

#119 -Joy-

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Posted 08 July 2015 - 12:57 AM

Dun dun duuuhh  :lol2:



#120 Lollorian

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 12:10 PM

Some things to consider adding into the next BWP:

- IR - BGT Compatibility patch

- Ascension WeiDU Script Fixer

- InfinityAnimations Tanar'ri & Wyverns Anim Fix

 

Also noticed something in the BiG World PDF: Pg 23 mentions that TheUndying needs to be installed before BG2Fixpack because the Harder Enemies component overwrites :unsure: It was converted into patching code in Undying v2.50 so that won't be an issue anymore :cheers:


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