528 replies to this topic

[Jinnai]

Heya,

Submitted: Five random pieces of fiction written by me.

Algorithim predicted Author is...

Male four times.

Female once.

Actual author gender: Female.

Err... and you say this is supposed to be 80% accurate? It was wrong 80% of the time. I know only five pieces isn't terribly much, but according to that I'm male!! Well maybe it's because I identify as lesbian.

Which points out how while you can go from a bunch of indivdiual case examples to a generality, you can't go from a generality to an individual case example very well ;-).

Does 80% accuracy mean that it will work for everyone? No. But it does mean that over hundreds of cases with hundreds of people, gender can be identified to a fairly high degree of accuracy.

Hmm...I really liked the idea, so I tried and put through five pieces of my fiction - one a short dialogue from the quest, two textual descriptions, a passage from Valygar's romance (Valygar's text) and a short passage for Sarevok. Only one (the quest dialogue) was returned as a female author (am a female, lol, but I guess I was cheating because in two of the passages I *tried* to write for a male speaker. I think it is a useful tool for a modder when you are in doubt if any man alive would ever say *this*

I sent in 4 of my Imoen dialogues and 2 returned male and 2 returned female...

Oh well...And i agree Laufrey. Imoen is pink.

[Imrahil]

Oh well...And i agree Laufrey. Imoen is pink.

[kidding]
My take on Imoen is that she is not Pink. I'm not 100% sure, but the reasons I think so are...

- She never outright says she's Pink. Most people who don't claim to be Pink are not, in fact, Pink.
- Pink is a singer & Imoen never sings.
- Sure, she shares some characteristics with Pink, but she also shares many characteristics with Madonna, & we know she's not Madonna, because Irenicus says so.
- You should know that if you play a Gnome Wizard Slayer, wielding the Stiletto of Demarchess, & approach Ribald in Chapter 6, Imoen says "Well, I'm really a blonde... this... this isn't natural..."
- Canon FR materials never even mention Pink, because Hasbro has a Family Friendly policy which forbids them from mentioning anything related to "getting the party started" - oddly enough, they are all for Family Portraits...
- In the books, she is a rock star, I'll admit, but then again they also say that Jaheira is a "ho"

- Imrahil
[/kidding]

[Zandilar]

[kidding]
My take on Imoen is that she is not Pink.  I'm not 100% sure, but the reasons I think so are...

- She never outright says she's Pink.  Most people who don't claim to be Pink are not, in fact, Pink.
- Pink is a singer & Imoen never sings.
- Sure, she shares some characteristics with Pink, but she also shares many characteristics with Madonna, & we know she's not Madonna, because Irenicus says so.
- You should know that if you play a Gnome Wizard Slayer, wielding the Stiletto of Demarchess, & approach Ribald in Chapter 6, Imoen says "Well, I'm really a blonde... this... this isn't natural..."
- Canon FR materials never even mention Pink, because Hasbro has a Family Friendly policy which forbids them from mentioning anything related to "getting the party started" - oddly enough, they are all for Family Portraits...
- In the books, she is a rock star, I'll admit, but then again they also say that Jaheira is a "ho"
[/kidding]

[tongueincheek]
Here are some more points...

- Actually, in the books they say she's a little bit of nothing, though Drew Karpyshyn gives her back a few of her thief abilties.
- Also, she's described as being just under five feet tall with chestnut hair.
- In Lord Mirrabbo's mod, Imoen both sings and plays a guitar.

Weather this lends evidence to either side of the the argument pertaining to Imoen's pinkness (and gods I hope she's not pink, I hate that colour!), I have no clue.
[/tongueincheek]

[Laufey]

And also, there is the serious and confounding question on how pink you need to be in order to be classified as Pink. Pink, after all, is halfway between Red and White, and if you stray to far in either direction, there is no more Proper Pinkness.

[Quitch]

That's far enough off-topic.

[Theodur]

I'm amazed that anyone can seriously consider taking the godawful, disgusting BG books for a canon, regardless of their obscene quality. They simply can't be canon for one simple, minor point. In the official FR canon, there is no such thing as Bhaalspawn children and the Bhaalspawn wars have never happened. They contradict many, many things in the official canon. So in short, the BG books not only are NOT canon, they go AGAINST canon.

And frankly, the only canon source relating anything BG-connected is only the game itself. Especially when you consider that Mr. Abduh Athans had nothing aside from a skeleton of the plot and names of the NPC characters as he set out to write the first book. Will you insist that his characterisation should be taken as more "correct" or even marginally serious compared to how the characters are portrayed in the game? That's rubbish.

If any mod writer was to take the Imoen, Jaheira, Sarevok, Khalid, Xan from the books and portray them in their mod based on that template, I'd be tempted to insert a rusty fork in their liver and twist it, sharply. Just as I would love to do to Messrs. Athans and Karpyshin.

Just to stay on topic, btw... it would not take too much to convince me that Imoen could be "bi". Then again, I'm one of those who is against the PC-Imoen romance, so my opinion probably is not significant, anyway.

[Jinnai]

I'm amazed that anyone can seriously consider taking the godawful, disgusting BG books for a canon, regardless of their obscene quality. They simply can't be canon for one simple, minor point. In the official FR canon, there is no such thing as Bhaalspawn children and the Bhaalspawn wars have never happened. They contradict many, many things in the official canon. So in short, the BG books not only are NOT canon, they go AGAINST canon.

And frankly, the only canon source relating anything BG-connected is only the game itself. Especially when you consider that Mr. Abduh Athans had nothing aside from a skeleton of the plot and names of the NPC characters as he set out to write the first book. Will you insist that his characterisation should be taken as more "correct" or even marginally serious compared to how the characters are portrayed in the game? That's rubbish.

If any mod writer was to take the Imoen, Jaheira, Sarevok, Khalid, Xan from the books and portray them in their mod based on that template, I'd be tempted to insert a rusty fork in their liver and twist it, sharply. Just as I would love to do to Messrs. Athans and Karpyshin.

Just to stay on topic, btw... it would not take too much to convince me that Imoen could be "bi". Then again, I'm one of those who is against the PC-Imoen romance, so my opinion probably is not significant, anyway.

Absolutely...the books should be considered no more canon than some of the outlandish fanfics staring Imoen.

[Jinnai]

Um im lost Why is imoens sexuality discused !?! isnt she um the PC's sister

I don't want to rehash everything, but basically because 1> FR such things don't matter, 2> the sister thing is debatable, but this isn't the thread to do, 3> even if she is your sister,. there are those who don't care for whatever reason

[kirkjobsluder]

Um im lost Why is imoens sexuality discused !?! isnt she um the PC's sister

I don't want to rehash everything, but basically because 1> FR such things don't matter,

Given how widespread incest taboos are cross culturally on Earth, it seems reasonable to propose that they exist among some cultures (perhaps even a majority of cultures) in the FR as well.

[Quitch]

Um im lost Why is imoens sexuality discused !?! isnt she um the PC's sister

a) Not every romantic relation revolves around the player.

B) Sexuality doesn't have to influence romances alone.

Edited by Quitch, 20 May 2004 - 07:21 AM.

[Kish]

Um im lost Why is imoens sexuality discused !?! isnt she um the PC's sister

Sisters have sexual orientations. It could matter to the mod, even (and hopefully) without a PC romance.

[Jinnai]

Well the issue of being persecuted for being gay or bi waxes and wanes and also has to do with culture...why if we went back a few more centuries before the middle ages in greece it would be common practice, especially for higher up people, to have a same sex parter as well as opposite sex partner.