204 replies to this topic

[NiGHTMARE]

Actually, almost every country in the entire world of Aber-Toril has a really world parallel. Amn, for instance, is obviously heavily inspired by Spain, while Tethyr is somewhat like France and Waterdeep = London (though of course unlike London, Waterdeep is an individual citystate). Of course as these examples show, real world geographical locations only losely affect Toril geographical locations .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 July 2004 - 09:10 AM.

[Plasmocat]

[aside] It always kind of funny to me when ppl put "because it's more realistic this way" constraints in a fantasy setting. Where there are monsters. And magic. And elves. And gnomes. And inter-dimenstional travel ... I could go on, but you see my point. Even *IF* Faerum is based on some loose representation of Medieval Europe, adding additional human races wouldn't be any more unrealistic or fantastic as adding elves, gnomes, or dragons, or kobalds. I mean, we all know *those* critters aren't & weren't real ... right?

*cheeky grin before running like hell*

[NiGHTMARE]

Faerun may be a fantasy world with strange races and creatures, but it's one where the types and locations of such beings have already been well documented. D&D products tell as that black people come from the continent to the south of the realms, oriental people come from the continent to the east of the realms, and native american-esque people from the continent to the west of the realms.

[Plasmocat]

I already know that, Nightmare, and still have my opinion formed.

[Meira]

I already know that, Nightmare, and still have my opinion formed. 

I second to that

You never guess who that was.

[Plasmocat]

ARRGGGHHH NO!!!! Don't say I'm having all the wrong ppl agree with me.


**Assuming you mean that was mprilla, in any case. If you meant you forgot to log in, I'm sorry, Meira. I misunderstood what you were saying. :turnip: **

Edited by Plasmocat, 22 July 2004 - 12:23 PM.

[NiGHTMARE]

If you decide to ignore established FR lore on the matter, that means you have to make up some explanation for:

- how several different races of human have somehow evolved side-by-side. Oh, and don't try to bring up the various subraces of dwarves, elves, etc as they all tend to live seperately from one another

- how humans developed different skin colours, shapes of eye and the like, since on earth such things are influence by geographical factors such as climate, but if these people evolved in the same area you can't exactly use that.

- why there have never been any non-white human figures of note in the Forgotten Realms. Unless of course you plan to introduce non-canon historical figures, or make canon figures who're supposed to be white black or oriental, etc .

Basically, it's far more trouble than it's worth .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 July 2004 - 11:57 AM.

[Plasmocat]

Frankly, I think your attempts to rationalize your position are a lot more effort than it should be worth.

Fantasy world, Nightmare. Fantasy. Get it?

If you (generally speaking) have a need to go into all that kind of detail in order just to play a game ... then it's still possible to free your imagination enough to make it workable if you're a good enough writer.

This kind of rationalization just sounds like what a group of ppl who wanted to be exclusive in certain ways without the distasteful nametages that go with the attitude decided in order to make it a certain-kind-of-ppl can play kind of game that would still fly in an increasingly diverse demographic.

I played this game when you were still in kindergarten (judging by your DOB in your profile). You can play an enjoyable game without getting into all those "Thou shalt nots." In fact, it's often *more* enjoyable when you get someone who is willing to take some chances. Get a decent DM & the only limit you have is your own imagination.

(sorry for the thread hijacking folk ... just a pet peeve, although nothing personal toward you Nightmare. Pls resume your originally scheduled thread.)

Edited by Plasmocat, 22 July 2004 - 12:14 PM.

[NiGHTMARE]

Sure, some fantasy worlds don't have detailed explanations for everything, but other fantasy worlds do. I don't know whether you've ever attempted to create your own fantasy world, but fleshing out some of the seemingly insignificant little details can be the most enjoyable part .

The worlds of D&D are of the variety where the creators decided (or in some cases, were told ) to go into great detail regarding their past, the species that inhabit them, and so on. This is the appeal of most of the old 2nd Edition sourcebooks, and the reason so many people hate the 3rd Edition books is because of the general lack of such information.

If none of this information is needed or wanted, why would it be written and published, and why would people enjoy reading about it? Exactly. To me, little details help make a fantasy world feel more alive and believable, even with all the goblins, elves and dragons. It's nothing to do with being "elite" (and playing D&D and being elite are oxymorons anyway ), it's to do with being sucked in.

If you do make background information up in your own head, chances are extremely high it'll be different than what other people make up in their heads. Soon enough you'll end up getting into arguments about who's right and who's wrong, arguments that would soon be resolved (or may not even start) if you can simply go and look up the source of the argument in a book somewhere. It seems to me that playing pnp in a fantasy world with little-to-no background information would soon lead to the DM compiling a list of various trivia .

It's not a matter of me or anyone else "needing" such information that's the problem; the fact is that the information is already there. Feel free to completely ignore the history, culture, species, etc of the Forgotten Realms as you see fit, but if you do so in a mod I'd advise keeping the mod private - otherwise you can expect a lot of whining and flaming posts, PMs and e-mails.

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 July 2004 - 12:49 PM.

[Plasmocat]

I'm willing to agree to disagree about this, Nightmare.

Feel free to completely ignore the history, culture, species, etc of the Forgotten Realms as you see fit, but if you do so in a mod I'd advise keeping the mod private - otherwise you can expect a lot of whining and flaming posts, PMs and e-mails.

Yeah, well I'm no stranger to the flames of trolls. That's what /ignore is for.

Edited by Plasmocat, 22 July 2004 - 12:51 PM.

[NiGHTMARE]

Same here .

EDIT: to both things .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 22 July 2004 - 12:53 PM.

[Ellderon]

[aside] It always kind of funny to me when ppl put "because it's more realistic this way" constraints in a fantasy setting. Where there are monsters. And magic. And elves. And gnomes. And inter-dimenstional travel ... I could go on, but you see my point. Even *IF* Faerum is based on some loose representation of Medieval Europe, adding additional human races wouldn't be any more unrealistic or fantastic as adding elves, gnomes, or dragons, or kobalds. I mean, we all know *those* critters aren't & weren't real ... right?

*cheeky grin before running like hell*

Basing the fanatasy world on something that's real increases the immersion/credibility factor.
The more detailed the world is, the better...

If you ever read LOTR & Sillmarillion, you would detest the very idea of black elves... It's just not "elvish". Heck, FR elves are not elvis enough if you ask me...

[Xaositect_Crayon]

well... there is some black skinned characters (non drow) that are in Faerun... there was that mage lady in the bridge distric and a few in BG1 I believe... really... you'd see them more in trademeet than atkathla itself... since trademeet seems to be more of a stock trade town than atkathla... the city of coin is more of a market town than a trade town...

I am guessing on this anyways

[crazyhybrid9999]

Why oh why did I open such a can of worms. I thought I closed when I said [QUOTE]Nightmare I see your point and I tried my best not to make me sound like the people who make these games racist. I do not think that the makers of the games are racist, I just think that there is a lack of um... perspective?. I just notice that many games are white dominated. Sorry for causing so much trouble. I concede. I was wrong i guess. [QUOTE]

The world is fine. Some branching out into more parts of Faurun would be nice and the people will fit their prespective place. I have to agree with nightmare he is right.

@Nightmare according to [url="http://www.sorcerers.net/Worlds/FR/where.php"]http://www.sorcerers...ds/FR/where.php[/url] Tethyr is more akin to Morrocco. I wonder what the D&D version of Bedioun are.

[SimDing0]

If you (generally speaking) have a need to go into all that kind of detail in order just to play a game ... then it's still possible to free your imagination enough to make it workable if you're a good enough writer.

Lack of explanation of minor details compromises the immersiveness of a game. As NiGHTMARE says, you go for the believable option, rather than using your "writing skill" to come up with far-fetched explanations.

This kind of rationalization just sounds like what a group of ppl who wanted to be exclusive in certain ways without the distasteful nametages that go with the attitude decided in order to make it a certain-kind-of-ppl can play kind of game that would still fly in an increasingly diverse demographic.

I... don't understand this at all.

I played this game when you were still in kindergarten (judging by your DOB in your profile).

Ooh, you REALLY don't want to bring up an age argument.

[NiGHTMARE]

re Bedioun: Hmm... well, there are tribespeople in the Calimshan desert and the Lake of Steam area (located to the east of Calimshan), but I don't know much about them. They could be similar to the Bedioun I guess .

Edited by NiGHTMARE, 23 July 2004 - 02:07 PM.

[Plasmocat]

Look, I don't know if anyone's noticed but I've agreed to disagree. Hehehe, I feel like I've walked into a biker bar & asked loudly, 'What's so great about Harleys?"

It's ok. I'm not a threat, just a person with an opinion. We're cool ...

[Xaositect_Crayon]

still noone makes good necromancers

[NiGHTMARE]

It's not just necromancers. There are no single-class mage NPCs currently being made, specialist or otherwise. At least, none that I'm aware of.