I know in BGI weapon proficiencies were a certain way, the same way they're implemented in IWD1. In BGII, these proficiencies were "nerfed".
I also know there are a lot of tweaks or mods that will "unnerf" weapon proficiencies. But I am having trouble locating a chart showing what each proficiency actually does in each style.
If possible, I'd love to see a comparison.
TIA
Grandmastery "fix" ... please compare nerfed vs. "fixed
Started by Klorox, Dec 25 2007 09:28 PM
6 replies to this topic
#1
Klorox
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Posted 25 December 2007 - 09:28 PM
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
#2
Miloch
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Posted 01 January 2008 - 10:54 PM
Not sure what you mean by "nerfed" exactly, but the best description and mod of proficiences will probably be in BG2 Tweaks "Alter Weapon Proficiencies" component (including one that'll revert BG2 proficiencies to BG1 format).
The main difference I'm aware of is that BG1 had broad categories of weapons (large swords) whereas BG2 has more specific proficiencies (longswords, bastard swords, etc.). Meaning that you could effectively spend fewer proficiency points to get more proficiencies in BG1.
As for differences between what the proficiencies actually do, you'll have to be a bit more specific.
The main difference I'm aware of is that BG1 had broad categories of weapons (large swords) whereas BG2 has more specific proficiencies (longswords, bastard swords, etc.). Meaning that you could effectively spend fewer proficiency points to get more proficiencies in BG1.
As for differences between what the proficiencies actually do, you'll have to be a bit more specific.
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#3
Jarno Mikkola
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Posted 02 January 2008 - 01:15 AM
Here is the explanation:
If only we would read the instructions better! But then again, we are men, we don't need any freaking instructions.Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table
A spin-off of the deprecated Un-Nerfed THAC0 Table, Saving Throws, Grand-Mastery, and Arcane, Divine Spell Progression component, this allows the player to select the un-nerfed THAC0 table individually. THAC0 can now progress until it reaches zero instead of no longer improving once you hit level 20.
Deactivated account. The user today is known as The Imp.
#4
Klorox
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Posted 02 January 2008 - 05:46 AM
I must not have been clear.
***** in weapons does something different in BGI/IWD vs. what it does in BGII. As does ***, and ****.
I'm just wondering what the difference is so that I can compare them.
***** in weapons does something different in BGI/IWD vs. what it does in BGII. As does ***, and ****.
I'm just wondering what the difference is so that I can compare them.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
#5
Miloch
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Posted 02 January 2008 - 10:54 PM
Well I guess a good place to start would be the manuals. And since it's a good question, and I'm not the kind of guy who just says 
(usually), here you go:
[from the BG2 Manual p. 102]
So the nerfs there in BG2 are clearly evident. And I can kind of guess why they did it - a fighter with level APR bonuses, weapon bonuses and mastery bonuses all combined is going to be a bit overpowered.
2nd edition rules are rather vague about weapon proficiencies (PHB p. 73, DMG p. 45). But basically the rules say most characters can become "proficient" (1 point) in any weapon they can use, whereas single-class fighters can become "specialized" (2 points). Anything beyond that appears to be an invention of the IE games, and therefore that's where we see the differences.
(usually), here you go:Level Points Hit + Dmg + APR Proficient 1 0 0 1 Specialized 2 +1 +2 3/2 Master 3 +3 +3 3/2 High Master 4 +3 +4 3/2 Grand Master 5 +3 +5 2[from the BG1 Manual p. 93]
Level Points Hit + Dmg + APR Proficient 1 0 0 1 Specialized 2 +1 +2 3/2 Master 3 +2 +2 3/2 High Master* 4 +2 +2 3/2 Grand Master 5 +2 +3 3/2* Moving from Master level to High Master improves the speed factor of the specialized weapon.
[from the BG2 Manual p. 102]
So the nerfs there in BG2 are clearly evident. And I can kind of guess why they did it - a fighter with level APR bonuses, weapon bonuses and mastery bonuses all combined is going to be a bit overpowered.
2nd edition rules are rather vague about weapon proficiencies (PHB p. 73, DMG p. 45). But basically the rules say most characters can become "proficient" (1 point) in any weapon they can use, whereas single-class fighters can become "specialized" (2 points). Anything beyond that appears to be an invention of the IE games, and therefore that's where we see the differences.
Edited by Miloch, 02 January 2008 - 10:56 PM.
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"Infinity turns out to be the opposite of what people say it is. It is not 'that which has nothing beyond itself' that is infinite, but 'that which always has something beyond itself'." -Aristotle
#6
scooter_booter88
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Posted 10 January 2008 - 04:04 PM
2nd edition rules are rather vague about weapon proficiencies (PHB p. 73, DMG p. 45). But basically the rules say most characters can become "proficient" (1 point) in any weapon they can use, whereas single-class fighters can become "specialized" (2 points). Anything beyond that appears to be an invention of the IE games, and therefore that's where we see the differences.
If I remember correctly, in 2nd ed. D&D, you could become more than "specialized", just depends on where you look. If anyone has the AD&D Core Rules program (great program for creating anythign 2nd ed D&D related), go to make a high level fighhter and check the WP
As for the fact that "they were nerfed"...well, no they were not nerfed. They were *balanced*. As Miloch said, a fighter could be a tad overpowered with level bonuses all around.
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SIR BILL BAILEY QUOTES:
"Three men walk into a bar, one of them is just a little bit stupid and the whole scene unfolds with tedious inevitibility..."
"Three blokes go into a pub. Well, I say three; could be four or five. Could be nine or ten, doesn't matter. Could have been fifteen, twenty - fifty. Round it up. Hundred. Let's go mad, eh - two-fifty. Tell you what, double it up - five hundred. Thousand! Oh, I've gone mad! Two thousand! Five thousand! (adopting auctioneer persona) Anyone? Five thousand, six thou, six thousand, ten thousand! Small town in Hertfordshire goes into a pub! Fifteen thousand blokes! Alright, let's go - population of Rotterdam. The Hague. Whole of Northern Holland. Mainland U.K. Let's go all the way to the top - Europe, alright? Whole of Europe goes - I say Europe. Could be Eurasia. Not the band, obviously, that's just two of them. Alright, continents - North America! Plus South America! Plus Antartica - that's just eight blokes in a weather station. Not a good example. Alright, make it a lot simpler, all the blokes on the planet go into the pub, right? And the first bloke goes up to the bar and he says "I'd like to buy a round of drinks for everyone" What an idiot."
"I'm a postmodern vegetarian. I eat meat ironically."
SIR BILL BAILEY QUOTES:
"Three men walk into a bar, one of them is just a little bit stupid and the whole scene unfolds with tedious inevitibility..."
"Three blokes go into a pub. Well, I say three; could be four or five. Could be nine or ten, doesn't matter. Could have been fifteen, twenty - fifty. Round it up. Hundred. Let's go mad, eh - two-fifty. Tell you what, double it up - five hundred. Thousand! Oh, I've gone mad! Two thousand! Five thousand! (adopting auctioneer persona) Anyone? Five thousand, six thou, six thousand, ten thousand! Small town in Hertfordshire goes into a pub! Fifteen thousand blokes! Alright, let's go - population of Rotterdam. The Hague. Whole of Northern Holland. Mainland U.K. Let's go all the way to the top - Europe, alright? Whole of Europe goes - I say Europe. Could be Eurasia. Not the band, obviously, that's just two of them. Alright, continents - North America! Plus South America! Plus Antartica - that's just eight blokes in a weather station. Not a good example. Alright, make it a lot simpler, all the blokes on the planet go into the pub, right? And the first bloke goes up to the bar and he says "I'd like to buy a round of drinks for everyone" What an idiot."
"I'm a postmodern vegetarian. I eat meat ironically."
#7
Klorox
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Posted 17 January 2008 - 04:38 AM
they were nerfed for balance purposes.
Apparently rules for higher than "Specialized" were introduced in the "Player's Option" books, which sucked IMHO. Every gaming group I belonged to shunned those pieces of crap.
Apparently rules for higher than "Specialized" were introduced in the "Player's Option" books, which sucked IMHO. Every gaming group I belonged to shunned those pieces of crap.
Baruk Khazâd! Khazâd ai-mênu!
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
Oh, squiggly line in my eye fluid. I see you lurking there on the periphery of my vision. But when I try to look at you, you scurry away. Are you shy, squiggly line? Why only when I ignore you, do you return to the center of my eye? Oh, squiggly line, it's alright, you are forgiven.
? Stewie Griffin
