149 replies to this topic

[Choo Choo]

I like Auren - I've yet to play the ToB portion (I'll wait with another playthrough of BG2 until Luxley family is released, or if I apply for Darian alphatesting), but I enjoyed the SoA part.

As for Emmeline.. we'll see. She's certainly got her cheery moments (fear the pair Emmeline and Imoen), so we'll see. I don't want her to be a chipmunk - Alora and BG1 Imoen were quite enough - but I don't want her to be "omg emo" either. Neither do I want her flaws to take TOO much place. While she's certainly very far from perfect, and can be rather cruel at times, I don't want that to be the only side she has.

Edited by Choo Choo, 13 October 2007 - 09:40 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

Edit: Uh, this was for earlier

Just to further clarify what CC means, about the whole judging over stereotypes and so on, we're trying to keep it in line with what she may have seen before meeting the PC in BG1.

That also includes things like, Halflings are rogues or like to stay at home (Gullykin) and cook. Or Paladins are self-righteous tinheads, and so on.

Currently actual work progress on BG1 is just about out of the base idea stage.
Soooo, 0.00001%?

So yeah, just a lil update from us, so those nay sayers out there who think we're doomed an' all will not get any ideas about looting the grave or anything.

And yeah, it's very difficult to keep away from BG2 brainstorming/writing/whatever when there's so many ideas bouncing around - focus is on BG1, though.

*bounces* GAH!!!

For the millisecond perhaps, but never focused for long. Reasons I need not say.

Edited by Solar's Harper, 13 October 2007 - 09:45 AM.

[theacefes]

While she's certainly very far from perfect, and can be rather cruel at times, I don't want that to be the only side she has.

Yes, otherwise people are going to wonder why they should pick her up at all.

Though I wonder...does being cruel make you imperfect? Or is that in the eyes of a Good aligned character.

[Tempest]

Darian: And of course I've been giving Tempest plenty of issues of his own, with a little voice inside his head.

Xarana: Where I am every cold-hearted impulse and darker moment of ideology Tempest has ever had given form and a voice.

Shyaern: Do not try to be what you are not. Rather, excel at what you are. *CRUNCH*

Darian: You're getting quite good at that, Xarana. Tempest could tell you all sorts about my development-I am very different from the way Tempest envisioned me at first, and I think he's happy with it. He didn't intend to change me that much-I just took my persona and ran with it, eventually turning into someone entirely different. Keep your mind open-there's no telling how Emmeline may evolve as time goes on.

[berelinde]

Another little hint: reread earlier work. NPCs *do* evolve. Sometimes, it's helpful to reread banters you wrote earlier to see if they're still applicable to the NPC you've got now. I wound up redoing about half of Gavin's banters because of that, because some of his earlier ones were just too generic. Later on, after his personality became more clearly defined, I decided to rework some of them.

[Choo Choo]

While we don't have much which is actually *written*, we've got a damn lot of ideas, and we've figured out pretty much all of her NPC/NPC relations, which will make it easier to write banters - only Valygar and Xan left.

Theacefes: Ah, yes. I wrote earlier that she'd never intentionally play on someone's feelings to hurt them.. which has changed. She won't do it often, but she will. (The romance conflict with Jaheira in BG2 is an excellent example of this, especially since Emmeline gets along well with Khalid in BG1).

She's CG, yes, but she treads fairly close to CN at times. I've never seen the alignments as "do this or do that, otherwise you're not that", but what the majority of your actions tread out to be.

Thanks for the tip, Berelinde - I've got a horrid tendency to finish one thing and never look at it again since I consider myself done with it. I'll try to avoid doing that, though.

Emmeline has been on and off in my head for two years or so, although she's gone by many different names - first she was a PnP character, then I wanted to mod her for Morrowind, and then I started playing Oblivion, and then I was too obsessed by Sims, and then I was re-busy with the BG games and playing all the mods I could find. She's been through many changes already - thankfully. The first sketch of her was a Mary Sue if I ever saw one.

Edited by Choo Choo, 13 October 2007 - 09:56 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

Just on alignments, we're kind of running from Emmeline's perspective, not the description's.

What might have been considered good to the description, Emme may react differently... dwarves will constantly be witnesses to this, for obvious reasons.

[Choo Choo]

Emmeline *is* chaotic good - she follows her own moral code, which sometimes but not always agrees with the actual law (which she couldn't care less about), usually tending towards good. She has her petty, selfish or even downright mean moments. I was about to say "She's human", but she's not, she's an elf. But.. mortal. And far from flawless.

Edited by Choo Choo, 13 October 2007 - 10:07 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

Emmeline *is* chaotic good - she follows her own moral code, which sometimes but not always agrees with the actual law (which she couldn't care less about), usually tending towards good. She has her petty, selfish or even downright mean moments. I was about to say "She's human", but she's not, she's an elf. But.. mortal. And far from flawless.

Well I was refering to how we are going about it CC, not what her alignment is.
But basically in agreement, yes she does have the flaws, but its from her own view that she doesn't see that until its too late.
Or in the case of a dwarf, she couldn't care, unless something was proven otherwise.

And if you dare say she's human I'll have to see to it a suitable retribution, is in order. ;D

[Choo Choo]

She'd be chaotic good from anyone's view, Solar - she don't view herself as anything except "Emmeline". She certainly doesn't consider herself evil, though.

If you threaten Xan, I'll.. I'll.. do something! I'LL TICKLE YOU.

[Tempest]

Simply being prejudiced does not keep a character from being good, remember. Keldorn and Minsc are unquestionably prejudiced-against drow and Red Wizards-but they're both unmistakably good-aligned.

[Choo Choo]

Oh no no, Emmeline *is* good. And all her prejudices aren't "omg you're <race> which is evil". Her views on gnomes and halflings are an example of that.

The reason she's bordering to chaotic neutral AT TIMES is mainly because of her inclination to intentionally hit on people's soft spots to hurt them. Mainly - not the sole reason. :3 And she is a strongly good-aligned individual at the end of the day.

Edited by Choo Choo, 13 October 2007 - 10:51 AM.

[Solar's Harper]

Ok people you'll be pleased to know that *now* we're on the lucky last part of getting the building blocks down, at least for how NPCs will interact with each other.
I won't spoil anything tho so I'll stop there.

Edit: So the official percentage would be... 0.00002%?

If you threaten Xan, I'll.. I'll.. do something! I'LL TICKLE YOU.

Um... *sneaks away*

Edited by Solar's Harper, 13 October 2007 - 11:25 AM.

[Azkyroth]

The reason she's bordering to chaotic neutral AT TIMES is mainly because of her inclination to intentionally hit on people's soft spots to hurt them. Mainly - not the sole reason. :3 And she is a strongly good-aligned individual at the end of the day.

Interesting. I wouldn't say that's necessarily nongood, depending on the NPCs in question and the motives. Taking Edwin down a few pegs, for instance, wouldn't be out of line for a good character, though picking at Kivan's wounds certainly would be. O.o

One of the weirder differences of opinion I've encountered with regard to D&D is the people who interpret "chaotic" as essentially a form of ADD-lite rather than as regards the character's relation to authority and tradition. I've never quite understood this, but I don't think it's a very useful or meaningful interpretation of alignments. You, however, don't seem to be working from that, which is good, I think. ^.^

[Choo Choo]

Intentionally picking at Jaheira's wounds during a romance conflict to make her stay away from the PC is a good example of when Emmeline is slightly less than good. She won't be particularly nice to Aerie, either, and certainly not to Viconia.

But what I'm trying to get through with her hate for dwarves.. Keldorn and Minsc (good examples, Tempest) are prejudiced as well, yes. But I doubt Keldorn would kill a drow he finds good (If I remember correctly, he tolerates Solaufein just fine), and Minsc wouldn't mind a Red Wizard who didn't want to hurt him or Dynaheir and generally did good things. At least, I don't think he would.

And there's the difference - Emmeline couldn't care less if a dwarf is good or innocent. She sees them as evil, all of them, and that any dwarf who doesn't appear to be evil is just pretending since it's so much easier to kill someone who trusts them.

She'll join a dwarven PC, yes, but grudgingly, and she won't be polite. And yes, dwarven PC's will have to persuade her.

In the end of BG2, and in ToB, she'll be able to form some sort of friendship with a dwarven PC (if the PC has been nice to her through-out the game, obviously - even if her views might change and she'll mature a bit, she won't ever get along with Korgan).

Hope I got through what I meant.

Edited by Choo Choo, 13 October 2007 - 11:28 PM.

[Solar's Harper]

Ok, just a small update.
Might be the only one in for awhile now, but nonetheless.

All Character relations with Emmeline are now narrowed down, and several banters have been written and coded, others remain drafts at this time.

Intro talk has also been coded and proofread, and thanks go to K'aeloree who helped us out abit with that file not so long ago.

Now just out of curiosity, what kind of challenge do people think is missing in BG1? We are also coming up with ideas for personal quests, we've got a few and one is already decided, but public opinion is helpful in this regard.

Will be more updates soon, but in the interim more work to do.

[Choo Choo]

And remember, that even while we will only have at maximum two quests in BG1 (plus one for ToTSC, maybe), some ideas might get into BG2, too.

[Tempest]

It's a little hard to determine character quests without really fleshing out your character and their background first. I do not like character-specific quests in general unless they add to and develop the character-some mod npc's have pointless quests that do nothing but give that character a moment in the spotlight and get the party some loot and experience, and others have more personal quests that add to and shape the character in question. For example, Xan's quest with Elhan in SoA is a good example of the former-there's really no point to it in terms of character development. Adding another layer to the siege of Suldanessellar is good, but there's really no grounds for it being a Xan quest, as it adds little to nothing to Xan's character and what the player knows/thinks/feels about him. A good example of the latter type of personal quest would be Sarah's quest, which doesn't really have any gameplay point, but resolves some important issues in Sarah's past and really helps shape her as a character. Or for non-mod examples, Nalia's quest string is an example of the former, and Jan is an outstanding example of the latter (much as I might hate all the to-ing and fro-ing of Jan's quest).

I would write a character quest if and only if it serves a purpose in developing Emmeline as a character, and if you do decide a quest is in order, think of it from a character development standpoint first. Everything else, a player can alter as they choose with the console and Shadowkeeper.

[Solar's Harper]

We are intending to blend it in Tempest, its not going to be a simple add on with a rubber stamp then shuffled off, or at least so we hope. Any task that Emmeline gets the player involved in is likely to have some link to her past, or herself. But that doesn't say every one of them will, otherwise it'll get a bit blandish.

Edit: Looking to see if people think that some personal quests have either
A) too much hack and slash scenario?
B) Diplomacy a bit too effective, or obvious in options?
C) Not enough excitment in the quests?
D) Not enough use of tactical advantages, such as stealth to accomplish the goal?
E) What type of quest would people be more interested in? Go to person, or retrieve item, kill creature X or what-have-you.

Don't worry about character development, we'll sort that out as we go along.

Edit: Eh, I'm no good at being specific am I? And sorry if it sounds gruff, not the tone that is meant.

Edited by Solar's Harper, 17 October 2007 - 02:31 PM.

[Choo Choo]

*nods* I've only got two quests planned out, one in BG1 (which you must complete if you want her to stay with you), and one in ToB. And nothing inbetween. If I feel like it.. eh, we'll see. Too early in development, really, to say.