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My Critique of NTotSC (spoiler)


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#1 swak62

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Posted 15 August 2010 - 10:46 AM

My first impression about NTotSC was "WOW! Another expansion mod to add to the enjoyment of BG!" As I proceeded through the game and encountered the characters of NTotSC, I went to do the quest. I think it's a great mod, and totally enjoyable, however, my biggest complaint is about the walkthroughs that people have written about it. The ones I have found are just 'bare bones', telling about a particular character and what is needed to complete "their" quest. However, all the quests are convoluted and either tie into one another or conflict with one another. Haeball, for instance, won't give you his quest until you get the book of Knowledge that Shealla wants, which you can't get until you go to Candlekeep, which result in you being wanted by Law and attacked by every Flaming Fist soldier you encounter.....Plus on top of that, if you rescue the monk in the cave, then Haeball turns hostile, so you have to kill him. Not to mention that if you go to Durlag's tower BEFORE talking to some salamanders on some island, then that quest is inconclusive because of it's already been completed. Oh, and don't forget, there's another group of demons that WANT them salamanders dead.....The storyline of this mod plays out in a confusing manner that more difficult to follow than an afternoon soap opera! There are NO walkthroughs published out there that can help a person achieve maximum enjoyment of the game! As a result of this, in not being able to determine the best course of actions, I've grown frustrated with the game and have stopped playing it. For others who have played through this mod and achieved this maximum enjoyment of the game, could they please publish a more detailed walkthrough for the rest of us? I'm sure many of us out there who haven't played it before would appreciate that. Right now, I'm more tempted in uninstalling the game and reinstalling everything WITHOUT the NTotSC mod, which is a shame really, for I would really like to explore these new map area added to the game.

Edited by swak62, 24 August 2010 - 08:03 PM.


#2 Turambar

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Posted 22 August 2010 - 09:46 AM

I have just started NT and I had your impression, too. This mod is definitely much more elaborated than DSOTSC, and there aren't any valid walkthroughs.

I'll write what I've seen, so that, sooner or later, a sort of walkthrough will come out. As I was quite confused, I've also read some dialogues and scripts with NI, in order to try to understand something more.

I think the only thing you can do immediately is the northern citadel, although you have to move quite a lot and talk to many people for something to happen.
You have to speak with everybody, go everywhere and talk to the captain of the guards many times in different places.

All other quests can only be completed after talking to shaella and going to candlekeep; if I've read the dialogues and scripts correctly, you won't find her book and then hasdar will talk to you. You can also explore other areas (field and wood of the dead, but mind the most dreadful trap ever made: a fireball for each party member, wherever they are!), and save someone there. There are also some other minor quests (the candle,...). I don't think that just saving the monk is enuogh to turn haeball hostile, but I'll have a look at that; I have to check all variables involved.

I think also haeball's mission requires talking to hasdar, so that also has to be made after candlekeep.

edit: I think the title should include the word 'spoiler'

Edited by Turambar, 24 August 2010 - 12:39 AM.

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#3 swak62

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 08:10 PM

I have just started NT and I had your impression, too. This mod is definitely much more elaborated than DSOTSC, and there aren't any valid walkthroughs.

I'll write what I've seen, so that, sooner or later, a sort of walkthrough will come out. As I was quite confused, I've also read some dialogues and scripts with NI, in order to try to understand something more.

I think the only thing you can do immediately is the northern citadel, although you have to move quite a lot and talk to many people for something to happen.
You have to speak with everybody, go everywhere and talk to the captain of the guards many times in different places.

All other quests can only be completed after talking to shaella and going to candlekeep; if I've read the dialogues and scripts correctly, you won't find her book and then hasdar will talk to you. You can also explore other areas (field and wood of the dead, but mind the most dreadful trap ever made: a fireball for each party member, wherever they are!), and save someone there. There are also some other minor quests (the candle,...). I don't think that just saving the monk is enuogh to turn haeball hostile, but I'll have a look at that; I have to check all variables involved.

I think also haeball's mission requires talking to hasdar, so that also has to be made after candlekeep.

edit: I think the title should include the word 'spoiler'


Thanks Turambar. It's comforting to know that someone else also is in agreement with me. I was just thinking that maybe the best way to complete this mod is to first, go through the entire game up to the point of before you enter your characters into the ducal palace for the final confrontation. This way, a person has achieved all the necessary dialogue to gain these quests. Then one can do these quests, complete Durlag's Tower, then from there finish the game. Would this be an advisable option to complete this mod? If so, please make a note of that in any upcoming walkthroughs. Again, thanks!

#4 Turambar

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Posted 24 August 2010 - 11:47 PM

Thanks Turambar. It's comforting to know that someone else also is in agreement with me. I was just thinking that maybe the best way to complete this mod is to first, go through the entire game up to the point of before you enter your characters into the ducal palace for the final confrontation. This way, a person has achieved all the necessary dialogue to gain these quests. Then one can do these quests, complete Durlag's Tower, then from there finish the game. Would this be an advisable option to complete this mod? If so, please make a note of that in any upcoming walkthroughs. Again, thanks!


But, remember to speak with shaella BERFORE Candlekeep, otherwise, nothing will work.

And the Northern citadel could need Eltan still healthy to be completed, although I haven't finished it yet. The Northern Citadel finishes when you speak with someone in the Citadel (door on the left, 2 floor); he shows you one area north of waterdeep with a lighthouse

I still haven't understood the problem with Durlag's tower

Edited by Turambar, 26 August 2010 - 12:06 AM.

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#5 Turambar

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Posted 27 August 2010 - 03:07 AM

I suggest you read this post, as I've found what I think is a bug and written what I think could fix it

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#6 Turambar

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Posted 18 September 2010 - 12:50 AM

So, here I am. I've had some time recently and I've finished NT; I'll try writing a sort of walkthrough.

A part from all side quests (the candle, some extra monsters,...), there are two main quests: I'll call them the Book and the Cult.

There is a quite good walkthroughfor DS and NT, but it has some mistakes.

They are not really independent, and I'll try to point out where they interact and in what order they should be done.

Book: it's the simplest one, but it should be completed BEFORE most of the Cult quests. It should be started BEFORE Candlekeep, but I think you can start it anyway.

- Talk with Sharedra, be VERY careful because she can very easily run away, and you won't get the quest.
- After candlekeep, talk to her again, then speak to brother Hasdar, listen to his instructions, then talk to him again and be quite hostile - he'll attack you; ill him.
- Go to Larswood and talk to Haeball: he'll give you the same quest, pretend you don't have the bow or the book, otherwise he'll attack you (he'll do it anyway, in the end).
For the rest, you can follow the other walkthrough. Be careful: Haeball will immediately attack you if you've SPOKEN WITH REEDRIG AFTER KILLING AEC'LETEC.

Cult: You can start it whenever you want, but you shouldn't talk to Reedrig in UB until you've finished with Haeball.

- Explore the wood and field of the dead; save Reedrig (he's in a cave).
Be careful NOT to click on the stone circle, when there's the question mark pointer: the situation could get quite hot...

The next step is getting to the salamander Island. You need Nadalis for that. You can find him near the ship-inn in South BG.
The original Dialogue is only activated if you don't have his village on the map yet, which happens after he gives you his mission or when you finish the Northern Citadel. I've written a fixfor that issue, which allows the quest to continue if you have already finished with the citadel, after you've solved the fishermen's problem.
Anyway, after you get there, you're told you have to kill Draagis first.

The next step should be only made after you've already killed haeball.
You MUST have finished the Durlag's Tower quest, and you must have Tarcea's letter. (Tarcea is the priest who summoned Aec'Letec)

Talk to Reedrig and he'll show you the area of the Cult.
Be careful, the cultists have quite powerful arrows... anyway, it's a very nice fight.

Go back to the salamander Island to get the key, then use it on the Altar in the Northern Citadel to pick up the Holy symbol of Helm.

At this point, you need to get the rusted dagger from the desk behind Haeball; it's key is south of Beregost.

You have now everything you need to access the two crypts: the symbol for the field of the dead, and Draagis' ring and the Dagger for the Wood.

You can do them in any order, but I suggest that you kill the orc general in the fields first: Meeting him with his sword, which is in the Woods crypt, in your inventary, will give you huge penalties...


Other comments: I think this mod is really nice, the areas are well done (which was the worst thing in DS); there are some black squares but they don't cause crashes.

There are quite many bugs, though: many creatures don't have, or have invalid, scripts; the mod uses many resources from other mods without copying them properly, and so you get some boots without their icon, creatures who don't act, ...
I've tried to fix most issues in my fixpack; please tell me if you find other issues.

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#7 Miloch

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 04:48 PM

there are some black squares but they don't cause crashes.

Can you screenshot some of these? Don't know if it's a tileset or a video card issue.

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#8 10th

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 05:07 PM

It's a tileset issue. Northern Citadel area exterior for example (ar30pb). Black square just under the tree in front of the crypt entrance. Oddly enoug DLTCEP doesn't show the black square and doesn't report any errors, but ingame it shows up.

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#9 Hoppy

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:10 PM

It's a tileset issue. Northern Citadel area exterior for example (ar30pb). Black square just under the tree in front of the crypt entrance. Oddly enoug DLTCEP doesn't show the black square and doesn't report any errors, but ingame it shows up.

10th



It has existed for the last three or four versions. Could it be a compression issue? :unsure: Also could it have anything to do with the porting to BGT since it was originally a BG1 mod?
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#10 Creepin

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 07:41 PM

As a matter of fact there is walkthrough for NTotSC. I've found it posted some time ago somewhere around SHS, but since search is broken novadays I'm attaching it for you instead of just ranting "use the search" ;)

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#11 Miloch

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Posted 19 September 2010 - 08:01 PM

It's a tileset issue. Northern Citadel area exterior for example (ar30pb). Black square just under the tree in front of the crypt entrance. Oddly enoug DLTCEP doesn't show the black square and doesn't report any errors, but ingame it shows up.

It has existed for the last three or four versions. Could it be a compression issue? :unsure: Also could it have anything to do with the porting to BGT since it was originally a BG1 mod?

Actually, it is a .wed issue. Open ar30pb.are in DLTCEP. On the General tab, click Edit wed, then Edit tiles. Scroll down to the tile 79.10, which has 879 for the Tile index and 4814 for the Alternate tile. Click "Drop alternate" and save the tileset. After exiting back to the Edit area screen, might as well Save Area As its own name too.

I don't think it's supposed to have an "Alternate tile" from the looks of it - usually those are used for water (like in the next few tiles). Anyhow, that alternate tile isn't valid.

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#12 Turambar

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 12:36 AM

As a matter of fact there is walkthrough for NTotSC. I've found it posted some time ago somewhere around SHS, but since search is broken novadays I'm attaching it for you instead of just ranting "use the search" ;)


Thanks. It seems quite accurate; though, you don't have to put the dagger and ring anywhere to open the crypt; you must "have them in party", which means in your inventary (see one of the previous posts)

Actually, it is a .wed issue. Open ar30pb.are in DLTCEP. On the General tab, click Edit wed, then Edit tiles. Scroll down to the tile 79.10, which has 879 for the Tile index and 4814 for the Alternate tile. Click "Drop alternate" and save the tileset. After exiting back to the Edit area screen, might as well Save Area As its own name too.


Thanks, I'll check if it works now.

What file have I edited, doing those things? was it the AR30PB.tis? Because I think I'll include it in my fixpack as well, but I don't know how all those files work

edit: I've looked at it with NI and I've seen it's the WED file.can I just overwrite it or is it better to edit it?

Edited by Turambar, 20 September 2010 - 01:15 AM.

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#13 Miloch

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Posted 20 September 2010 - 05:21 PM

edit: I've looked at it with NI and I've seen it's the WED file.can I just overwrite it or is it better to edit it?

I would just overwrite it, since it's a mod file not a vanilla one, and the mod should eventually include the fixed version. But I suspect you've already done that.

For that matter, you could probably just edit NTotSC directly for fixes like this, though you might have to go through erebusant or whoever's currently in charge of it to get the fixed version uploaded.

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#14 Turambar

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 01:43 AM

edit: I've looked at it with NI and I've seen it's the WED file.can I just overwrite it or is it better to edit it?

I would just overwrite it, since it's a mod file not a vanilla one, and the mod should eventually include the fixed version. But I suspect you've already done that.

For that matter, you could probably just edit NTotSC directly for fixes like this, though you might have to go through erebusant or whoever's currently in charge of it to get the fixed version uploaded.

I patched it, as I don't know if a wed file has any string references; some texts could have problems, otherwise.

I think it's him, but he's been inactive for two months yet... He wrote about a new version in the bugs & fixes topic, but then he has apparently disappeared. So, the fixpack was all I could do yet; I don't know if anything else can be done till he comes back. I could try to PM him, but still, I can't edit anything there

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#15 Miloch

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 09:30 AM

I patched it, as I don't know if a wed file has any string references; some texts could have problems, otherwise.

WED files do not use string references; any text is hardcoded in the file. (ARE files are different, though it is not terribly common for them to have string references either.) But if you patched it anyway, that's cool :).

I could try to PM him

It's worth a try - maybe he had other fixes done. He is usually pretty good about responding.

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#16 Hoppy

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:50 AM


edit: I've looked at it with NI and I've seen it's the WED file.can I just overwrite it or is it better to edit it?

I would just overwrite it, since it's a mod file not a vanilla one, and the mod should eventually include the fixed version. But I suspect you've already done that.

For that matter, you could probably just edit NTotSC directly for fixes like this, though you might have to go through erebusant or whoever's currently in charge of it to get the fixed version uploaded.

I patched it, as I don't know if a wed file has any string references; some texts could have problems, otherwise.

I think it's him, but he's been inactive for two months yet... He wrote about a new version in the bugs & fixes topic, but then he has apparently disappeared. So, the fixpack was all I could do yet; I don't know if anything else can be done till he comes back. I could try to PM him, but still, I can't edit anything there



You may want to post the fix in the bug reports in case he doesn't get the PM notification (spam filtering or what not). That way it is a logged fix and not buried in critique threads. :)
?May God defend me from my friends; I can defend myself from my enemies.? - Voltaire

"If you think that a size of the mod indicates an amount of bugs that it introduces and their severity you're totally wrong...
Try not to use next time a load of shitty "super-mega-improving-tweaking-revising" small mods that you have installed and try to meet Wulfgar once again."
- King Diamond


Posted Image The Definitive Guide to Trolls

"Finding food and a place to sleep is your own business. I imagine Paul the Cat should have some fun with you, too" - Potencius in The Darkest Day
"You have been warned, little bastard!" -Khelben to a young <CHARNAME>in Check the Bodies
There are those who will snivel, and offer nothing in return except criticism, meanwhile never lifting a finger to do other than to cut other peoples labor down simply for the fact that they lack the capability to put anything of their own together. -erebusant

#17 Turambar

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Posted 21 September 2010 - 11:18 PM

You may want to post the fix in the bug reports in case he doesn't get the PM notification (spam filtering or what not). That way it is a logged fix and not buried in critique threads. :)


I could put a link there; it's also the first place where it could be found by anyone who has problems.

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#18 Lunever

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Posted 30 June 2021 - 02:33 AM

So after I made the mistake of having talked to Reedig many many hours of playing ago, can I temporarily edit some variable with EEKeeper in order to appease Haeball so he doesn't attack me immediately?



#19 jastey

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Posted 30 June 2021 - 05:55 AM

Haeball attacks if

-variable Global("NTTalkedToReedig","GLOBAL",3) is at "3"

-the leader of the Dark Cult (whatever it was called) Draagis is dead

-the group has the Book of the Unkowing in their possession.



#20 Lunever

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Posted 30 June 2021 - 12:09 PM

Right - any idea how I can temporarily unkill Draagis?