152 replies to this topic

[Roxanne]

Drizzt NPC (Beta)

 

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default because Region of Terror and Sandrah NPC are also Standard and preferred.

Apropos - what about the reverse case - Mods that are standard but should be expert???

 

- SCS v3.0  >>> more than just putting SCSI and II into one package

- Mulgore & Xavia NPC v5.0  >>> not very popular but anyway bugged

- SandrahNPC >>> work in progress, unknown issues, expert if not remove until ready

- Askaria >>> this is not even tactical, no party entering Beregost the first time can defeat those monsters without cheat, only works if you tweak the whole mod to a later chapter

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

- Tales of Anegh >>> some area transits are bugged, some globals need to be set manually > expert

[Roxanne]

Drizzt NPC (Beta)

 

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default because Region of Terror and Sandrah NPC are also Standard and preferred.

Apropos - what about the reverse case - Mods that are standard but should be expert???

 

- SCS v3.0  >>> more than just putting SCSI and II into one package

- Mulgore & Xavia NPC v5.0  >>> not very popular but anyway bugged

- SandrahNPC >>> work in progress, unknown issues, expert if not remove until ready

- Askaria >>> this is not even tactical, no party entering Beregost the first time can defeat those monsters without cheat, only works if you tweak the whole mod to a later chapter

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

- Tales of Anegh >>> some area transits are bugged, some globals need to be set manually, one of the possible optional sidetracks is completely bugged > expert

[Roxanne]

Zyraen's Miscellany

 

This is incompatible with almost everything in a BGT installation. BWS being an automation of such installs should not consider it at all, The only ever setting would be expert not selected and a warning not to use with anything else in the program (i.e. never). I think this mod was designed originally for BG2 alone and has no place here.

 

My vote

Should not be part of BWS

Edited by Roxanne, 21 November 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[agb1]

Touchstone NPC

He also has a kit component. I am not sure if it is required. Has anyone successfully installed this mod recently?

 

Authentic Mischievous Fairy Dragon

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default. Added inconsistency warning with Familiar Pack, WTPFamiliars.

 

cbisson's Familiar Pack

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default. Added inconsistency warning with Fairy Dragon, WTPFamiliars.

 

Oversight

Needs conflicts analysis before moving to Standard. BWS does not have entries for most of its components.

 

Ashes of Embers

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default. Has conflicts entries for most components. May need updating.

 

Bard Song Switching (Icewind Mode)

Moved to Standard. Not enabled by default. Had existing conflicts with RR for non-compatible variant and with IWDification component 50 ("IWD Bard Song"), although that only changes the Trueclass Bard. Added conflict with Might & Guile component 270 that also changes Bard kits.

 

Updated mod and component descriptions (with GE, RU, FR translations):

Spoiler

[WeiDU-EN]

@0=Replace Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald with patched original kits

@1=Replace Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald with patched kits from Rogue Rebalancing v3.47

Tra=0

 

[WeiDU-CH]

@0=Replace Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald with patched original kits

@1=Replace Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald with patched kits from Rogue Rebalancing v3.47

Tra=1

 

[WeiDU-FR]

@0=Remplacer Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald avec des kits patchés d'origine

@1=Remplacer Trueclass Bard, Blade, Jester, Skald avec des kits rapiécés de Rogue Rebalancing v3.47

Tra=3

 

[WeiDU-RU]

@0=Заменить Trueclass Бард, Blade, Шут, Skald с исправленными оригинальных комплектов

@1=Заменить Trueclass Бард, Blade, Шут, Skald с исправленными комплектов из Rogue Rebalancing v3.47

Tra=4

 

[Description]

Mod-EN=With this mod you can change between different bardsongs like it is in Icewind Dale. This mod is intended to be installed with Rogue Rebalancing, but the copies of the Rogue Rebalancing kits used by this mod are outdated, so more recent changes to the bard kits from Rogue Rebalancing may be lost.

Mod-GE=Mit diesem Mod können Sie zwischen verschiedenen bardsongs zu ändern, wie es in Icewind Dale ist. Dieser Mod soll mit Rogue Rebalancing installiert werden, aber die Kopien der Rogue Rebalancing-Kits von diesem mod verwendet werden, sind überholt, so neueren Änderungen der Barden-Kits von Rogue Rebalancing können verloren gehen.

Mod-RU=С этим модом вы можете переключаться между различными bardsongs, как это находится в Icewind Dale. Этот мод предназначен для установки с Rogue изменения баланса, но копии Rogue комплектов РЕБАЛАНСИРОВАНИЕМ используемых этого мода устарели, так еще недавние изменения в бардовской комплектов из Rogue изменения баланса могут быть потеряны.

 

I did some analysis of conflicts affecting bard kits among M&G, RR, IWDification and S&S.  What other mods also modify bards?

 

Here is the result of my analysis reflected as BWS conflict rules:

 

Spoiler

;Bards: M&G 270 replaces Blade, Skald - RR 4,5, BardSong_BG2_IWD 0,1 replace all kits - S&S 0 patches Skald THAC0- IWDification 50 patches Trueclass Bard

;not sure if S&S tweak to Skalds does any harm if installed after M&G but should be safe to install first

;M&G can be installed after RR to get RR's Trueclass Bard and Jester with M&G's Blade and Skald

;IWDification can be installed after RR (no conflict with M&G) to add song switching for Trueclass Bard

RR-compatible IWD-style Bard Song Switching needs RR=D:BardSong_BG2_IWD(1):RR(4&5)

Conflicting changes to Bard kits=C:might_and_guile(270)|RR(4)|song_and_silence(0):BardSong_BG2_IWD(0)

Conflicting changes to Trueclass Bard=C:iwdification(50)>BardSong_BG2_IWD(0|1)

 

[agb1]

Kiara-Zaiya NPCs

And with respect to @5 the mod makes the Dragon in the side area (has a chalice or something, one of the items needed to summon Rillifane's Avatar) EXTREMELY hard - same @6 for Jao - But this is tactical - not expert

Thanks. Changed Kiara-Zaiya component 5 to Tactical.

[agb1]

I think I am almost caught up now...

 

Drizzt NPC (Beta)

Apropos - what about the reverse case - Mods that are standard but should be expert???

I like Lollorian's suggestion to use the Expert type for mods that have known issues that cause problems in a megamod installation and that require use of modding tools or understanding of scripting / weidu code to resolve.  If a problem can be resolved by CLUAConsole, the mod can be Standard, removed from pre-selection, and we can make a note of the problem in the description.

 

I also suggest that we start new mods at Expert until someone does a conflict analysis.  For simple mods with no expected conflicts, this step can be skipped and they can start at Standard.

 

In the GUI, we can mark individual components as Expert (which means they are part of the Expert pre-selection) if they have known issues.  This means that the "Expert" pre-selection choice in BWS will include many components with known problems, so no one should use that pre-selection without also examining the specific components.  This also means that any component marked expert in BWS is an invitation for an expert to fix the problem.  We should try to make sure that the component descriptions are updated for any components in the Expert pre-selection (at least in EN) with a hint about the problem.

 

As for the specific mods suggested for Expert status:

- SCS v3.0  >>> more than just putting SCSI and II into one package

Please describe the problems in more detail.

 

- Mulgore & Xavia NPC v5.0  >>> not very popular but anyway bugged

Please describe the problems in more detail.

 

- SandrahNPC >>> work in progress, unknown issues, expert if not remove until ready

If we agree that Expert status is for mods with known issues that can't be solved with CLUAConsole, then a mod under very active development and support is a perfect candidate to keep under Standard status in my opinion.  Also, I think "preferred" order among mods at Standard level should be conferred to newer mods to encourage active development by making those active mods more accessible.

 

- Askaria >>> this is not even tactical, no party entering Beregost the first time can defeat those monsters without cheat, only works if you tweak the whole mod to a later chapter

I will move to Expert with a note that the difficulty of the Beregost encounter is too high.  Is this for all components of the mod?

 

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

I thought these issues were solved by BWPFixpack?

 

- Tales of Anegh >>> some area transits are bugged, some globals need to be set manually > expert

These issues can be solved in game with CLUAConsole so I think Standard but not enabled would be best until they are BWPFixpack'd.

[Roxanne]

I think I am almost caught up now...

 

Drizzt NPC (Beta)

Apropos - what about the reverse case - Mods that are standard but should be expert???

I like Lollorian's suggestion to use the Expert type for mods that have known issues that cause problems in a megamod installation and that require use of modding tools or understanding of scripting / weidu code to resolve.  If a problem can be resolved by CLUAConsole, the mod can be Standard, removed from pre-selection, and we can make a note of the problem in the description.

 

I also suggest that we start new mods at Expert until someone does a conflict analysis.  For simple mods with no expected conflicts, this step can be skipped and they can start at Standard.

 

In the GUI, we can mark individual components as Expert (which means they are part of the Expert pre-selection) if they have known issues.  This means that the "Expert" pre-selection choice in BWS will include many components with known problems, so no one should use that pre-selection without also examining the specific components.  This also means that any component marked expert in BWS is an invitation for an expert to fix the problem.  We should try to make sure that the component descriptions are updated for any components in the Expert pre-selection (at least in EN) with a hint about the problem.

 

As for the specific mods suggested for Expert status:

- SCS v3.0  >>> more than just putting SCSI and II into one package

Please describe the problems in more detail.

 

- Mulgore & Xavia NPC v5.0  >>> not very popular but anyway bugged

Please describe the problems in more detail.

 

- SandrahNPC >>> work in progress, unknown issues, expert if not remove until ready

If we agree that Expert status is for mods with known issues that can't be solved with CLUAConsole, then a mod under very active development and support is a perfect candidate to keep under Standard status in my opinion.  Also, I think "preferred" order among mods at Standard level should be conferred to newer mods to encourage active development by making those active mods more accessible.

 

- Askaria >>> this is not even tactical, no party entering Beregost the first time can defeat those monsters without cheat, only works if you tweak the whole mod to a later chapter

I will move to Expert with a note that the difficulty of the Beregost encounter is too high.  Is this for all components of the mod?

Please check this with lollorian, maybe he has fixpacked it already. It is one single global to add to one file to spawn the initial meeting later, all else will follow automatically. If lollorian has fixpacked it - then make it tactical rather than expert.

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

I thought these issues were solved by BWPFixpack?

Suggest to crosscheck - if yes, then fine but I think I saw a report just yesterday again.

- Tales of Anegh >>> some area transits are bugged, some globals need to be set manually > expert

These issues can be solved in game with CLUAConsole so I think Standard but not enabled would be best until they are BWPFixpack'd.

In this case tactical - the final encounters of this are quite hard even at SoA final chapter.

[agb1]

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

I thought these issues were solved by BWPFixpack?

Suggest to crosscheck - if yes, then fine but I think I saw a report just yesterday again.

 

The issue yesterday was with an old install and particularly an older version of the fixpack.  The issue there was that the loading screen became infinite when moving between areas in BG City.  That issue is BWPFixpack'd.  But I am not sure about it "overwriting search areas in Athkatla" as you said.

[Roxanne]

- New travel system between Baldur's Gate City >>> overwriting search areas also in Athkatla

I thought these issues were solved by BWPFixpack?

Suggest to crosscheck - if yes, then fine but I think I saw a report just yesterday again.

 

The issue yesterday was with an old install and particularly an older version of the fixpack.  The issue there was that the loading screen became infinite when moving between areas in BG City.  That issue is BWPFixpack'd.  But I am not sure about it "overwriting search areas in Athkatla" as you said.

Ok then it was old install still in use but considered fixed for this discussion

[micbaldur]

 

@agb1:
BPv181:
The v181 version was the one that introduced the hostile NPC bug - v179 was fine afaik (I even recommended it over SCS once )

Do we know which components cause this problem?

 

Unfortunately, it is not the mod itself but some combination that causes the issue - but the end result is always solved by removing all BP-specific scripts from the affected NPC I think micbaldur might have some more info on this.

There are few problems with some cre-files with BP scripts:

Bolivar NPC

Haer'Dalis NPC (Don't know why though, never encountered this)

Razor (RoT)

Shar-Teel (BG1)

Shoal (BG1)

Tenya (BG1)

Tresham (RoT)

As for hostile commoners and such during fights isn't big deal, they don't attack and become neutral when they don't see party members after the fight. This "feature" has kind realistic flavour in BWP.

 

For me BP is going be must mod over anything else.

 

I'm not going to comment of moving/removing this and that here and there, i don't use BWS, i use highly modified BWP bat-file, but i can comment any issues with various mods if needed (though i don't know much about modding).

[agb1]

There are few problems with some cre-files with BP scripts:

Bolivar NPC

Haer'Dalis NPC (Don't know why though, never encountered this)

Razor (RoT)

Shar-Teel (BG1)

Shoal (BG1)

Tenya (BG1)

Tresham (RoT)

Do you know which BP components modified those cre files?  I want to know which components of BP need to stay Expert (because someone would have to manually fix the cre files like you did) and which components of BP are safe to install.

 

As for hostile commoners and such during fights isn't big deal, they don't attack and become neutral when they don't see party members after the fight. This "feature" has kind realistic flavour in BWP.

 

For me BP is going be must mod over anything else.

 

I'm not going to comment of moving/removing this and that here and there, i don't use BWS, i use highly modified BWP bat-file, but i can comment any issues with various mods if needed (though i don't know much about modding).

 

Thank you for the explanation.  So neutral NPCs becoming hostile is actually a new feature in BP and not a bug?

[micbaldur]

Do you know which BP components modified those cre files?  I want to know which components of BP need to stay Expert (because someone would have to manually fix the cre files like you did) and which components of BP are safe to install.

No i don't know which component does this, AI install is too complicated for me to understand, it uses tph-files and such. All i know where to make exceptions which cre-files don't get AI install.

Thank you for the explanation.  So neutral NPCs becoming hostile is actually a new feature in BP and not a bug?

No it's probably bug but i like to think that it's added "feature", it doesn't cause any other issues for me so far, this is second BWP install with this "feature".

[agb1]

Do you know which BP components modified those cre files?  I want to know which components of BP need to stay Expert (because someone would have to manually fix the cre files like you did) and which components of BP are safe to install.

No i don't know which component does this, AI install is too complicated for me to understand, it uses tph-files and such. All i know where to make exceptions which cre-files don't get AI install.

So when you install your game, you make a copy of these cre files before you install BP and then replace them with the copies afterwards?

 

Did you ever run the weidu --change-log procedure on these files?  That would answer my question, I think.

 

Thank you for the explanation.  So neutral NPCs becoming hostile is actually a new feature in BP and not a bug?

No it's probably bug but i like to think that it's added "feature", it doesn't cause any other issues for me so far, this is second BWP install with this "feature".

If you have with Party AI active, do your companion NPCs attack those "hostile" neutrals or do they ignore them?

 

Do the "hostile" neutrals attack you and your companion NPCs? Or do they just stand still with red circles?  Or run around without attacking?

[micbaldur]

So when you install your game, you make a copy of these cre files before you install BP and then replace them with the copies afterwards?

No, there's this block in BP_SCRIPTS.TPH:

// *********************************************************************
// *
// *        Some creatures work better with stupid scripts!
// *
// *********************************************************************

// But these won't work with them, so they need to be yanked like bad teeth!
ACTION_FOR_EACH bpcre IN ~haer10~ ~haer11~ ~haer13~ ~haer15~ ~haer19~ ~razor~ ~sharte~ ~sharte12~ ~sharte4~ ~sharte6~ ~sharte8~ ~sharte9~ ~shoal~ ~tenya~ ~tenya2~ ~tresham1~ BEGIN
  ACTION_IF FILE_EXISTS_IN_GAME ~%bpcre%.cre~ BEGIN
    COPY_EXISTING ~%bpcre%.cre~ ~override~
      WRITE_ASCII 0x268 ~wtasight~ #8
    BUT_ONLY
  END
END

there i can add "overlooked" cre-files.

Did you ever run the weidu --change-log procedure on these files?  That would answer my question, I think.

Ups i did make change-log for Bolivar and Shar-Teel and it's probably "Generic Creature & Script Processing: v181-b4611 BWP Fix" component.

If you have with Party AI active, do your companion NPCs attack those "hostile" neutrals or do they ignore them?

I don't use party AI, it's off almost all the time, couple EMAD quest needs it though.

Do the "hostile" neutrals attack you and your companion NPCs? Or do they just stand still with red circles?  Or run around without attacking?

Mostly running like headless chicken. I never bothered to investigate what causes this issue.

[agb1]

Does the latest BWPFixpack have a patch to exclude those creatures you listed?

Ups i did make change-log for Bolivar and Shar-Teel and it's probably "Generic Creature & Script Processing: v181-b4611 BWP Fix" component.

 

Please confirm this if you can.  I will leave that component as Expert, at least.

[micbaldur]

Does the latest BWPFixpack have a patch to exclude those creatures you listed?

Ups i did make change-log for Bolivar and Shar-Teel and it's probably "Generic Creature & Script Processing: v181-b4611 BWP Fix" component.

 

Please confirm this if you can.  I will leave that component as Expert, at least.

I had forgotten to report that Bolivar problem (fixed that misshap) but others are already fixed by Lollorian in BWP Fixpack.

[Lollorian]

@Roxanne:

Stratagems:

Should be Tactical IMHO - I don;t think I've heard of many bugs other than "this one be too hard"

 

Mulgore & Xavia:

Could you elaborate on the problems? (the mod has very shitty voice-acting but I don't consider that as expert stuff)

 

Sandrah:

I agree. Move to Expert because it is still WIP and practically a megamod - similar reasons like NeJ and TS-BP

 

New Travel System:

Overwriting issues were fixed in v2 of the mod

 

Tales of Anegh:

Please elaborate. Lots of stuff in that mod is fixed by the BWPFixpack (including some overwriting blocks)

 

Zyraen's Miscellany:

Exactly what problems does it cause? Again - not being a part of BWS is not an option - the BWS should enable installing every BG mod under the sun but give fair warning about what you're installing

 

@agb1:

Touchstone:

Should be installable. Mark the kit as Standard and let a bug report come Install failure doesn't break the game anyway.

 

Kirara-Zaiya Suldananesselarelalarellses component:

Keep expert because it overwrites like hell (unless the BWPFixpack does something about it - I remember taking a look when Hoppy was around and both of us didn't wanna touch it with a foot long pole )

 

@micbaldur:

I'd keep BP expert until all these NPC problems are reported and we have confirmation that there are no more

[Roxanne]

@Roxanne:

Stratagems:

Should be Tactical IMHO - I don;t think I've heard of many bugs other than "this one be too hard"

Most of its issue may be compatibility with the other tweaks, there are many open issues - but all is fine as long as it is not simply standard autoinstall.

Mulgore & Xavia:

Could you elaborate on the problems? (the mod has very shitty voice-acting but I don't consider that as expert stuff)

Honestly, this was from memory - I have not installed them for ages due to some bad experience way back then, I was not investigating issues at that time yet - so yes, if nobody else had an issue, forget about it

Sandrah:

I agree. Move to Expert because it is still WIP and practically a megamod - similar reasons like NeJ and TS-BP

 

New Travel System:

Overwriting issues were fixed in v2 of the mod

 

Tales of Anegh:

Please elaborate. Lots of stuff in that mod is fixed by the BWPFixpack (including some overwriting blocks)

I have it in my current install - I will see in some time what fixpack has done - if I still find issues I will report - otherwise ok for the time being,

Zyraen's Miscellany:

Exactly what problems does it cause? Again - not being a part of BWS is not an option - the BWS should enable installing every BG mod under the sun but give fair warning about what you're installing

My argument was rather, that BWP marks all the components as being meanwhile covered better elsewhere, so I am not seeing anything this mod still does within BWS - but your every-mod-under-the-sun cuts that.

@agb1:

Touchstone:

Should be installable. Mark the kit as Standard and let a bug report come Install failure doesn't break the game anyway.

 

Kirara-Zaiya Suldananesselarelalarellses component:

Keep expert because it overwrites like hell (unless the BWPFixpack does something about it - I remember taking a look when Hoppy was around and both of us didn't wanna touch it with a foot long pole )

Probably right - I was not aware the tactical part was by overwriting - maybe those components are in a way expert as the only way to beat those enemies is by the way the author wanted it - and unless you are a prophet almost the only way to beat them is by looking up their cre files and scripts and find their weak spot. And after all - those harder battle are not truely a part of the mod's storyline and somehow unconnected to the main plot.

@micbaldur:

I'd keep BP expert until all these NPC problems are reported and we have confirmation that there are no more

Edited by Roxanne, 21 November 2015 - 11:40 PM.

[Lollorian]

Kiara-Zaiya Suldananesselarelalarellses component:Keep expert because it overwrites like hell (unless the BWPFixpack does something about it - I remember taking a look when Hoppy was around and both of us didn't wanna touch it with a foot long pole )

Probably right - I was not aware the tactical part was by overwriting - maybe those components are in a way expert as the only way to beat those enemies is by the way the author wanted it - and unless you are a prophet almost the only way to beat them is by looking up their cre files and scripts and find their weak spot. And after all - those harder battle are not truely a part of the mod's storyline and somehow unconnected to the main plot.

I had a look at the component after posting that and yes it overwrites unnecessarily (the mod isn't really tactical as in better AI and stuff - it makes the area tougher by making the creatures that spawn harder to kill Mariliths instead of Trolls for example )

 

Should be a simple patch if anyone is inclined to do so

[Roxanne]

Kiara-Zaiya Suldananesselarelalarellses component:Keep expert because it overwrites like hell (unless the BWPFixpack does something about it - I remember taking a look when Hoppy was around and both of us didn't wanna touch it with a foot long pole )

Probably right - I was not aware the tactical part was by overwriting - maybe those components are in a way expert as the only way to beat those enemies is by the way the author wanted it - and unless you are a prophet almost the only way to beat them is by looking up their cre files and scripts and find their weak spot. And after all - those harder battle are not truely a part of the mod's storyline and somehow unconnected to the main plot.

I had a look at the component after posting that and yes it overwrites unnecessarily (the mod isn't really tactical as in better AI and stuff - it makes the area tougher by making the creatures that spawn harder to kill Mariliths instead of Trolls for example )

 

Should be a simple patch if anyone is inclined to do so

From BWS point it will suffice to make those subcomponents expert and unselected by default, right? The rest of the mod is pretty standard.