21 replies to this topic

[Rabain]

I've always been a proponent of an organised forum and minimizing duplication while maximising visibility.

I'm not sure where this post should be but I was interested to know if other people agree with my suggestions or have better ones...otherwise this message would be via PM to the Admins...

1. The IE Gameplay board in the Infinity Engine category is a waste of space. It links to boards that are actually just 5 or 6cm above. It would be quicker to scroll up than click the link.

Suggestion: Replace this board with the Infinity Engine Modding News Feed from G3.

2. [With Reference to 1.] - The IE Modding News from G3 is effectively lost under the Directives from the Director board. Yes there is a link but there is no "at a glance" ability when it is under another board...especially when there is unused space going a begging in the Infinity Engine category down the page.

3. Likewise the Gaming News board is under Directives from the Director. This is a relatively new feature that might be of interest to casual guests as well as regular visitors (members or not). I've already mentioned IE Modding News in point 2....as for Gaming News I don't think this forum would be out of place under Community Resources or even between Delusions of the Mind and Dili's Playground...both of which discuss CRPG's in some fashion.

I think there should be mention of both the IE Modding News Feed and the Gaming News under the Directives from the Director forum but the actual forums should be down the forum in their respective areas...with their last post immediately viewable on the main page.

Short Version: Move the two forums under Directives from the Director out into the main board so that their new posts can be seen at a glance by visitors. Remove the waste of space that is IE Gameplay board under Infinity Engine category.

[Miloch]

Not to add to the criticism but I've thought the subforums could be streamlined a bit here too. And it seems to take too many clicks to download a mod or get to its readme, when you should be able to get to those in one or two clicks from the mod's forum. I just spent a minor age trying to re-find Cuv's PST animations - turns out they were buried in IE Modding Resources downloads, which is sensible enough, but I kind of expected that to be grouped with IE Mods, not below the NWN and Oblivion stuff.

[SConrad]

Thanks for your suggestions!

Forum structure and organization is among the toughest challenges we have here at SHS - simply because there's a lot of them (yes, I know that to some, it is too many). This makes it extremely difficult to create a working solution - and even more difficult, if not impossible, to create one that will appeal to all visitors. We don't take this lightly - the current structure was carefully engineered and thoroughly discussed before we unveiled it.

Several ideas have been put forth over the years to divide the board in various ways in order to solve this situation more permanently. None of these have yet come close to be put in motion, unfortunately, due to the immense undertaking such a project would be (for me especially, seeing as I would have to code it).

We do appreciate input, however - and let me explain our reasoning behind some of the decisions we made:

1. The IE Gameplay board in the Infinity Engine category is a waste of space. It links to boards that are actually just 5 or 6cm above. It would be quicker to scroll up than click the link.

To you and other veterans in the IE modding community, I can easily understand how this might be considered a "waste of space." You - and me, as well as most old-timers - visit the board index when we're browsing the forum.

However, a lot of our visitors are not as experienced with SHS and don't automatically know where everything is at. And even more importantly, a lot of them come to the forums through links from our website or other places. These links - especially if they're from the website - might not go to the board index, but rather here or someplace similar. In other words, they might come directly to the section/category, instead of the board index. This is intentional in order to streamline the selection for first-time visitors. It's easy to get overwhelmed by the sheer volume of the board index.

The gameplay forums there exist for ease-of-use to the new visitors of SHS. If they've followed the link above, they would have difficulties reaching the gameplay forums if we didn't have them there. Besides, doesn't it make sense to have the IE Gameplay forums in the IE section?

2. [With Reference to 1.] - The IE Modding News from G3 is effectively lost under the Directives from the Director board. Yes there is a link but there is no "at a glance" ability when it is under another board...especially when there is unused space going a begging in the Infinity Engine category down the page.

3. Likewise the Gaming News board is under Directives from the Director. This is a relatively new feature that might be of interest to casual guests as well as regular visitors (members or not). I've already mentioned IE Modding News in point 2....as for Gaming News I don't think this forum would be out of place under Community Resources or even between Delusions of the Mind and Dili's Playground...both of which discuss CRPG's in some fashion.

The newsforums are where they are to save vertical space. I agree that they receive less exposure than they could have in their placement, and we have been discussing solutions to solve this problem. My own very personal and highly subjective favorite is to create a new category for all news - Directives, IE Modding and General Gameplay, maybe even together with a new addition or two.

However, we're very reluctant to perform major changes of that scope to the forum structure. We recently had one overhaul, and moving forums around at too high a pace only creates confusion and instability throughout the community, affecting both members and guests alike.

We'll take this into consideration and continue to dwell on the matter, in any case.

Not to add to the criticism but I've thought the subforums could be streamlined a bit here too. And it seems to take too many clicks to download a mod or get to its readme, when you should be able to get to those in one or two clicks from the mod's forum. I just spent a minor age trying to re-find Cuv's PST animations - turns out they were buried in IE Modding Resources downloads, which is sensible enough, but I kind of expected that to be grouped with IE Mods, not below the NWN and Oblivion stuff.

I agree - it takes too many clicks to get from A to B; especially with readmes or downloads. It is one thing that we're going to work hard to rectify in 2008 - clear information and directions in pinned topics and announcements, as well as establishing a centralized location for mod readmes. It's important, and high on the priority list.

Again, thanks for the suggestions! I hope I've been able to clarify these issues at least a little bit.

[Rabain]

No problem, I can understand the breath of decision making that must go into trying to organise such a large number of separate forums, you can never make everyone happy.

Thanks for responding!

[Miloch]

This is perhaps only marginally related, but I didn't want to start a new topic just for this observation. But is the forum really slow lately or is it just me? Seems to take 10-20 seconds just to access any post, and twice as long to reply to one.

[Kulyok]

Same here - lately, I've had to reload the topic just so it would open fully.

[SConrad]

Hm, must've been something temporary - I haven't had any problems recently. Let me know if it happens again.

[Azazello]

Perhaps a fluke, but I updated an existing post (about 15 mins ago) using Quick Edit, saved, and the post did not show the update, and the Modified timestamp still showed the old update date. Opened up Quick Edit again and there was the update. Saved, still no change. Finally, went to Full Edit, saved, and update was sucessful.

Like I said (wrote?), it's probably a fluke.

[SConrad]

Also sounds like something temporary, yeah... Let me know if the problems persist.

[Azazello]

I can't update an existing post. Quick Edit says I don't have permission; Full Edit says it changes the post but nothing but the timestamp updates.

I've read other people also can't update their posts.

[Bookwyrme]

Quick Edit has been a bit unreliable for me for a while now--often, it simply refuses to load the update at all but sits there on the "loading" screen until I get tired of it & choose full edit.

[SConrad]

I'm afraid I can't reproduce the error - full and quick editing works both for my "normal" account, as well as when I tried with a member account - in both IE7, Firefox and Opera.

More information would be valuable - browser, specific forums/topics, etc.

[Azazello]

Browser: FF 2.0.0.7
Post: http://www.shsforums...showtopic=30615

Just tried it now, no luck.

[SConrad]

I still can't reproduce the error. Both full edit and quick edit work completely as intended both for my Coordinator account and a test member account. In that forum, and in that topic, using Firefox 2.0.0.11 (which shouldn't make any difference).

Have you tried the "usual bugfixing" - cleaning out cache, cookies, etc.?

[Azazello]

I will try those. Also, as I find the threads where other people have reported problem, will paste them here.

[SConrad]

Thanks!

[Bookwyrme]

I use Firefox, currently 2.0. It's an intermittent issue--sometimes I can use Quick Edit, sometimes I can't. When I can't, the reply area will show up as usual, but when I go to post it simply sits and loads rather than actually posting.

[SConrad]

I use Firefox, currently 2.0. It's an intermittent issue--sometimes I can use Quick Edit, sometimes I can't. When I can't, the reply area will show up as usual, but when I go to post it simply sits and loads rather than actually posting.

Quick edit issues are most probably due to fluctuations in your internet connection. It uses AJAX to send requests back and forth to the server without reloading the page, and the technology is not always entirely stable - especially if the internet connection isn't. It doesn't handle timeouts very well, and so forth.

[Bookwyrme]

Ah, ok.

It hasn't been an earthshakingly-awful problem or I'd have mentioned it before; only brought it up now because others are having problems, though apparently different ones.

[Kellen]

I use Firefox, currently 2.0. It's an intermittent issue--sometimes I can use Quick Edit, sometimes I can't. When I can't, the reply area will show up as usual, but when I go to post it simply sits and loads rather than actually posting.

Ah. At that point I tend to hit Full Edit, and post from there. As far as I remember it has all the changes in full edit.