50 replies to this topic

[Zeracles]

I'm finally at home.
First of all, after carefully reviewing all thread, I still cannot figure what's so wrong with hosting repacked mods (you know, that a game mod cannot be copyrighted anyhow, don't you?), but doing something that is so opposed by the community is definitely not a wise idea (and certainly is not an aim of any kind). So I've placed a blank index.html instead of file listing for now... (Is writing a software, that will download all mods from their respectful owner's servers and unpack them to your BG folder will be a better idea? (I still don't see any difference between using such software or just hosting the mods )?

If you really want to help, there are many mods that need to be beta-tested.

The main idea behind all those actions was to analyze & enhance the Big World playing process from the beginning. I really want to contribute my beta-testing bug-fixing experience (since i'm somehow familiar with BG script programming), but to do it, I should first of all install the game - right? The idea to host all mods in one place for easy access was the obvious optimization solution, you just cannot deny it. I was just trying to do what I thought will be better for the community (and for players), but after all, it's not for me to decide, whether the installation process should be simplified or not ...

But I'm not sure you really want to help.

Of course, i'm here just to steal all those precious mods from their author's servers and sell them for huge $$$ to 500 2900 potential Big World Players/month (judging by searches stats in google)! Really, why do you think i'm doing this if i don't want to help?
After i'm done with the installation - can someone point me to something, that needs debugging - it will be very helpful...

P.S. I've tested those files, that caused NOD32 alert in a VM, with a usage of a powerful debugger - it seems, that they are really harmless. But why host this original version, when just replacing Setup-***.exe with a newer WEiDU version removes every possible alert?

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 02:07 AM.

[ShadowTek]

First of all, after carefully reviewing all thread, I still cannot figure what's so wrong with hosting repacked mods (you know, that a game mod cannot be copyrighted anyhow, don't you?)

Yes that is true.. but it is others hard work.. and that is so wrong of a thing to say.. but you know that

So I've placed a blank index.html instead of file listing for now... (Is writing a software, that will download all mods from their respectful owner's servers and unpack them to your BG folder will be a better idea? (I still don't see any difference between using such software or just hosting the mods )?

Really? now that sound cool how? That would be a BWS.. lol.. and yes theres a difference..

Of course, i'm here just to steal all those precious mods from their author's servers and sell them for huge $$$ to 500 2900 potential Big World Players/month (judging by searches stats in google)! Really, why do you think i'm doing this if i don't want to help?
After i'm done with the installation - can someone point me to something, that needs debugging - it will be very helpful...

See I knew you were a good guy that only wanted to help I knew my faith in you would be rewarded (you had me worried for a second.. but I knew you were cool!)

EDIT: No idea what needs beta testing but Im sure members here will tell you if not here, look around theres allot of active prodjects going on here.

Edited by ShadowTek, 01 January 2012 - 02:21 AM.

[Graoumf]

No idea what needs beta testing but Im sure members here will tell you if not here, look around theres allot of active prodjects going on here.

As far as I know: Nikita, Keldorn Romance, Aran Whitehand, IWD in BG2, and I know that Hoppy is waiting for test on Valygar's romance on Tortured Souls for BP. But I didn't dissect all the threads.

Edited by Graoumf, 01 January 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[Zeracles]

As far as I know: Nikita, Keldorn Romance, Aran Whitehand, IWD in BG2, and I know that Hoppy is waiting for test on Valygar's romance on Tortured Souls for BP. But I didn't dissect all the threads.

I'm still downloading (it's 15.1 already!

Dear, angry members & angrier admins, meanwhile I've just made the pre-alpha version of an automated downloader (which will display everything about the mod, it's author and the server, which hosts the mod), then download it and unpack. Nothing can possibly be wrong with that - it's just the a BWS version with much easier maintenance (because it stores the data in an XML!).

If you are interested - please test it here BGDown-pre-alpha.rar
It is written in VB.Net 2010 and require the .Net Framework 4. Tested to work on Windows 2008 R2 and Windows XP )
Sample XML file (with only 3 mods): Mod_data.xml
Sources: BGDown-sources.rar

I promise, when the final stable version will be ready - there will be a pop-up with huge letters, that anyone can grab the sources, modify and disturb them anyhow they want, without acknowledging me or anyone else!

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 12:09 PM.

[Zeracles]

Sorry for the double-posting

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[dabus]

Just curious: Why is xml better?
I mean, I hear a lot about machine-readable and such, but it looks as stupid / good to me as ini-files do.

You approach sounds pretty much like this to me. You might also want to check this out.

[Zeracles]

Just curious: Why is xml better?
I mean, I hear a lot about machine-readable and such, but it looks as stupid / good to me as ini-files do.

XML is very easy to parse (with Xpath all you have to do, f.e. to get a value of the "name" field from a structure like: <mods><mod><name>TestName</name><data>Test Data</data></mod></mods>, you'll just have to query something like "/mods/mod/name".). With ini files you'll have to write the parser for yourself - it's time consuming, buggy and something you just don't want to do.
Also XML is easily expanded (so if you'll decide to add some new params to your data structure (like backup links, or even user-feedback) - it'll integrate nicely onto the existing structure. Also you can store any kind of data in an XML file (even video , it supports UTF-8 and easily edited in a various editors like "XML Notepad" etc.
Theoretically we even can integrate the chosen structure into the PDF manual (so the structure will generate itself from the document (so the Manual will not only describe the process, but also act like a current link-collection for any downloader-program, using this technology.

You approach sounds pretty much like this to me. You might also want to check this out.

They are closed-sources and highly dependent on their author. (and from the comments - not working well ), I'm going open source only, so anyone will be able to contibute. And with a good XML-structure this contribution can be made by anyone, without any programming skills (i'm planning to include some feedback abilities, so users would be able to report dead links and propose the new one's). Also, any modder will be able to use this tool - not only the Big World community - the XML-link collection can be purely individual.

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 02:53 PM.

[Leokosta]

Cant download bg-down-pre-alpha.rar . Cooul u upload to Megaupload or something ?
Tx

[William Imm]

As a matter of fact, I'm a strong proponet of free software/open source. In fact, the BWS that I'm making will use a modified version of the XML format, and will be cross platform as well (ie: it will support Linux/OSX)

[dabus]

I never loaded the stuff since .NET is a bit big for a framework that's not really needed on my PC.
Just wanted you to know that there'd be a chance that someone did some work and maybe would be willing to give you a hand.

Edited by dabus, 01 January 2012 - 03:16 PM.

[Zeracles]

Cant download bg-down-pre-alpha.rar . Cooul u upload to Megaupload or something ?
Tx

It's your provider, who "fights" with piracy by blocking russian IP ranges... You really should tell them, that blocking parts of the internet is not the best solution...
Try: http://rghost.ru/35704029
Also, i've just downloaded the files to my UK server - they won't dare to block something in that range: http://lserbs.com/bi...dproject.ru.rar

[Leokosta]

Tx, that worked.
Downloaded the 3 files. It seems the program changed the names of the files I downloaded:
Program1.5_TobEx_Beta0022
Program1.6_bg2fixpack-v9
Program1.7_BDash168
Any new XML coming soon ? u might wanna insert a check for downloaded already files on the designated folder. BTW, I tried chanched the c:\test folder to another, no success.

Tx, sorry bad english

[Kaeloree]

Alright, to clear up a few things:

There really aren't any viruses in our mods. Seriously, I'm not not kidding.

I'm not angry, and I think you are trying to do what's in the best interest of players. However, as admin it's my responsibility to look after the mods and modders here, and part of that is to ensure that their mods don't get altered by other people or have multiple versions floating around.

Baldur's Gate mods can be copyrighted, because nothing in the original EULA states that mods are owned by BioWare (unlike with modern games). This is because modding was never intended to occur. Technically, modding BGII is a grey legal area as a result of this, but BioWare has been gracious enough to let us do it anyway. The content we create is ours. It's not licensed or owned by BioWare. As a result, it can and is copyrighted.

There are three main reasons we don't like people hosting our mods without permission.

• It's disrespectful to the wishes of modders who have worked hard to create things for the community.
  
• The community does update mods fairly regularly, especially at G3 where many mods get yearly maintenance updates. These updates often fix crucial bugs and contain new content. If multiple versions of mods are floating around, modders tend to get bug reports from players using old versions of mods, which is incredibly frustrating.
  
• It means that people never see SHS, G3, PPG or any other site. This means less people get to see the main sites, which means less people joining the community, which means less people getting interested in modding. It's funny: more people are playing BG mods of varying descriptions than ever, but because nobody needs to visit the main sites anymore, not as many new people are getting interested in modding, contributing or even giving modders feedback.

It has happened before, and it will happen again, but it's my job to try to prevent it for our mods as much as I can. I think making things easier for players is great, but you also have to respect the people who made the content in the first place, if nothing else.

Updating BWS or making an alternative is a great idea, but can you please remove the mods from your website? They might not be listed in the index now, but they're still available.

I'll support people who want to help out as much as I can, and I don't think there's anyone who would say that I've ever tried to impede the community's progress in making things easier (apart from making more mods, which must be a hassle for the poor BWP guys). I try to help modders and players as much as I can--I wish I had more time to do that with sometimes, but c'est la vie.

Does that make more sense?

[Zeracles]

Alright, to clear up a few things:

There really aren't any viruses in our mods. Seriously, I'm not not kidding.

It true - i've checked the files every way possible, but woudn't it be better just to replace weidu.exe with a newer version in the archives, that are seen as viruses?

Does that make more sense?

In fact this make perfect sense, the reason that community grows by people who download mods here is something that i fully understand and endorse. After all, community consists not only of Big World players/modders, who should really include all links in their manual, but of those, who make the mods, that are later included in the Big World. I've moved the mods to a subfolder - so they cannot be accessed. The reason, that I use my own server - is pure convenience - it's faster for me to throw something in the folder on a net drive on my gentoo router, than uploading it to someone's else server, as soon as my piece of software will work like it was intended, it would be a honor for me to upload it here
Still i have some questions, but it doesn't mean, that you are the one who should answer - point me to that member, please - they are purely
'Big World's' ones:

I'm not angry, and I think you are trying to do what's in the best interest of players. However, as admin it's my responsibility to look after the mods and modders here, and part of that is to ensure that their mods don't get altered by other people or have multiple versions floating around.

And what can be done with the fact, that Big World versioning is insane, while those modders update their versions - the Big World remains the same and the version, that is intended to be in Big World is not always the newest one! Doesn't it create the theoretical problem, that f.e. mod debuggers have another version of the game with those, who develop it, those who play it? Anyone sees it like a problem here - we could really solve it by keeping something like portage server, which will update players automatically to the version, that the mod's creators see as current? (preserving old version was one of the reasons behind all those actions, but I really don't know if it matters - is there some authoritative comment on whether we need version tracking system or not?)

Thanks, for your detailed reply, that finally clarified the reasons behind those requests (that at first I saw as nonsense to remove mods from my shared folder

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 08:31 PM.

[Zeracles]

[quote name='Leokosta' date='02 January 2012 - 05:49 AM' timestamp='1325472594' post='530528']
Tx, that worked.
Downloaded the 3 files. It seems the program changed the names of the files I downloaded:
Program1.5_TobEx_Beta0022
Program1.6_bg2fixpack-v9
Program1.7_BDash168

[/quote]

Sorry, it's not intended in fact for any serious usage. It changed names, because I really don't know how you can recieve a filename from the serverduring the download process in VB.Net 2010. And the filename needs to be present before the download stars (or program crashes).
[quote name='Leokosta' date='02 January 2012 - 05:49 AM' timestamp='1325472594' post='530528']
Any new XML coming soon ?
[/quote]
It will certainly come some day, in fact, maybe sooner than I thought, since the "Description & Author" fields were designed only because, i couldn't fully understand the K'aeloree's motives until now. This fields are the next step in "respecting" modders in the multidownload tools, but can be populated after the more "productive" fields.
While this program is under development - consider using the links from http://kerzenburg.ba....eu/bwpmods.php - they are quite current.
[quote name='Leokosta' date='02 January 2012 - 05:49 AM' timestamp='1325472594' post='530528']
u might wanna insert a check for downloaded already files on the designated folder. BTW, I tried chanched the c:\test folder to another, no success.
[/quoute]
It was developed in about 3 hours, it doesn't intend to work good (in fact, i'm quite surprised it actually started on someone else's PC . In fact the whole downloading part should be rewritten with some more effective component, than the standard one (multidownloading is really needed there
Tx, sorry bad english

[Leokosta]

Tx very much for your effort, just trying to give some feedback.I know The link above, but I cant hardly manage english, what can I say about German ? I am from Brasil, BTW. The link in German, I believe, must have some files outdated, as in BW Fix Pack.

[Zeracles]

Tx very much for your effort, just trying to give some feedback.I know The link above, but I cant hardly manage english, what can I say about German ? I am from Brasil, BTW. The link in German, I believe, must have some files outdated, as in BW Fix Pack.

Thanks for your feedback! Really, there wasn't too much effort to the date - The program was released so fast to ensure that "~William Imm~" from the topic: Bring back the Big World Setup won't try to "invent the wheel" during development of his fully-featured mutilingual and multiplatform installer, and consider using XML to store data, instead of anything else, so he could have less work in the future. In fact - if everyone will start using XML for data storage - the life will become much easier ))
Just press the floppy drive icon (or try google translate )!

Edited by Zeracles, 01 January 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Zeracles]

I've just found a super-duper Microsoft ClickOnce technology in my computer - It would be a crime, not to use it during the Big World Mod's Downloader development - it automatically updates every piece of the program to the latest version, so anyone will be able to monitor the progress!
The most interesting is access method: Just click http://bigworldproje.../mod_downloader and you are running the very latest version with the very latest XML-links database!
P.S. The most funny usage of this technology will be compiling the OpenSource Infinity Engine (GemRB) and publishing it along with all those Big World data files - so to play the latest BiG World Project on any computer, one will just need to visit the site - all mods will be updated, maintained and debugged by a person, who hosts the application - isn't it lovely? Just like some MMORPG client!

Edited by Zeracles, 02 January 2012 - 01:35 AM.

[Jarno Mikkola]

It true - i've checked the files every way possible, but woudn't it be better just to replace weidu.exe with a newer version in the archives, that are seen as viruses?

It's highly unlikely that an updated weiDu.exe makes the file seen as less virus containing than one without it, as the problem is in the virus scanners side, not in the WeiDu.exe itself.

Baldur's Gate mods can be copyrighted, because nothing in the original EULA states that mods are owned by BioWare (unlike with modern games). This is because modding was never intended to occur. Technically, modding BGII is a grey legal area as a result of this, but BioWare has been gracious enough to let us do it anyway. The content we create is ours. It's not licensed or owned by BioWare. As a result, it can and is copyrighted.

So long as no direct profit is made out. And one doesn't cross other copyrights...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 02 January 2012 - 03:30 AM.

[Zeracles]

It's highly unlikely that an updated weiDu.exe makes the file seen as less virus containing than one without it, as the problem is in the virus scanners side, not in the WeiDu.exe itself.

It's just the particular weidu version - i've tested the file throughly, it's crystal clean (there is, of course, a tiny chance, that the file is some very sophisticated rootkit, that detects VM environment, but such thoughts mean, that one reads to many cyberpunk novels ). And upgrading weidu - helps 100%, tested about 50 times.

Edited by Zeracles, 02 January 2012 - 03:46 AM.