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#21 Escape1sm

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 01:44 PM

Below the dungeons though, lies a deadly secret. A colony of kuo-toa has taken root here and is attempting to tunnel into the sewers and make contact with the Temple of Umberlee to form a monstrous alliance. (Perhaps some of the maps for the kuo-toa colony could be lifted and rearranged from the BG2 Sahuagin city.) Ultimately, the kuo-toa are attempting to bring an avatar of Blipdoolpoolp into the Realms in the form of a kuo-toa leviathan, a hideous monstrosity that the party can only defeat with the help of sea elves who are attempting to thwart this plot. Some critical areas for the quest are accessible only with Rings of Water Breathing or similar spells obtained from them (probably can be coded via script if nothing else). Alternately, an evil party can side with the kuo-toa and destroy the sea elves (headed by an aquatic sorceress of great power), and possibly the Seatower garrison as well, who are trying to contain what little they know of the menace. Ultimately the Fist will probably send in reinforcements to at least hold off the kuo-toa, if not defeat them (assuming the party does not do so).

Yeah, something similar to that has probably been done too, but like I said, what hasn't. :P



Just an idea that sort of stems from this.

Could the Kuo-toa have been responsible for Baldurans ship being shipwrecked off the werewolf island (mendales quest i think in UB). and because you don't find much evidence that Balduran was on the island, could the Kuo-toa have 'kidnapped' him, they've been torturing him and gleaning enough info over the years for them to build underneath the seatower, as they plan on invading BG and destroying everything/one in their path.

Temple of umberlee could be involved with it, as in their narrowminded atitutde to everything being beneath them, theyre mistakenly worshipping/aiding and abetting the Kuo-toa in their BG domination plans, and maybe umberlee sends a genuine worshipper to your party so you can address the balance.

sorry if this sounds like a dumb idea, im having a blonde one today :)

Edited by Escape1sm, 20 May 2007 - 01:46 PM.

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#22 Miloch

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Posted 20 May 2007 - 04:11 PM

No one really knows what became of old Balduran, do they? There is some suggestion near the end of his log book he deliberately beached on Balduran's Isle to "forage" and then sailed off in a small boat on his own shortly thereafter. But this was at least three hundred years ago (or "several hundred" depending on the source). He refers to "bloody elves" and "paranoid 'fair folk'" so he probably wasn't an elf. And if he was anything short of a full elf, he'd probably be dead by now. Or would he? This is the Forgotten Realms, what with undead, lycanthropes, potions of youth and who knows what else, I suppose anything is possible ;).

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#23 Escape1sm

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 02:37 AM

No one really knows what became of old Balduran, do they? There is some suggestion near the end of his log book he deliberately beached on Balduran's Isle to "forage" and then sailed off in a small boat on his own shortly thereafter. But this was at least three hundred years ago (or "several hundred" depending on the source). He refers to "bloody elves" and "paranoid 'fair folk'" so he probably wasn't an elf. And if he was anything short of a full elf, he'd probably be dead by now. Or would he? This is the Forgotten Realms, what with undead, lycanthropes, potions of youth and who knows what else, I suppose anything is possible ;).



im thinking the Kuo-toa could have had a hand in keeping him alive well past his 'sell by date' so to speak :) but yep he sounds like he could be dwarfish, as they arent keen on the fair folk, he could be a distant relative of Durlag (sorry bad spell).

He could have beached the ship, if they had been attacked by some kind of leviathan sent by the Kuo-toa, and he sails off again, possibly back to BG hopefully to warn folks, but he never made it back, as hes been taken...........

the possibilites are endless :)
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#24 Delight

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 02:58 AM

The Balduran statue on the previous page shows him as a human.
...

#25 Miloch

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Posted 21 May 2007 - 10:01 PM

Balduran was most likely human, or sources probably would've noted his race. His comments about the elves seem to stem from sailing too close to Evermeet. The natives probably didn't take too kindly to that :D.

I find it interesting that FR history and the game designers left his final whereabouts a mystery. Almost seems as if they had some sort of "unfinished business" intended for the man or his remains. Heroes usually don't just disappear without a trace in fiction, and Faerun is no exception. Balduran was an accomplished sailor, sea captain and pirate according to various sources. He wouldn't've let even a small craft in the ocean founder, and if he did, he'd find a way to survive until he got to land again. And even if he didn't survive, a guy like him would come back as a sea zombie at the very least. This is the guy who founded Baldur's Gate (or named it at least)!

It seems likely Balduran started to learn the truth about his infected crew, took a lifeboat and got out while the getting was still good. The islanders mention he wasn't among their ancestors. So the "abduction" scenario seems pretty likely to me actually. Who knows what resources an advances civilization from under the sea might have at their disposal? :ph34r:

I'd like to put him as an old man cackling madly on some island somewhere, but that's already been done for his navigator Dradeel ;D. I guess the other possibility is he didn't want to face the near failure of his mission and just went underground somewhere like Athkatla, Calimshan or even back in Anchorome/Maztica. But even if he'd wanted to remain incognito for the rest of his life, you'd think some sort of evidence would've turned out in the centuries since then.

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#26 Escape1sm

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 02:35 AM

Miloch, is there much info on his crew that sailed with him? im thinking there might have been a 'spy' amongst them, and that they could have been scrying for the Kuo-toa, so they knew where to send the leviathan,

They would have wanted his knowledge of the city and surrounding areas so they would know where to build their underground (insert appropriate word here) in readiness.

If you wanted to create another 'outpost' further inland, which would be logical step imho, as an invading army would need as many places to strike from as they could muster. The map with the FAI, if you look at the stairs leading into the Inn, underneath there looks like somekind of recess, could it contain a secret door leading to the cellar(strange that an inn of that size dosent have a cellar) which leads to another subterranean world?


another place is on the gullykin village map, more than half the map is taken up by what looks like a dried up moat/lake surrounding an 'island'. I like to think that the flooding of the cloakwood mines, drained this 'lake' and could expose cave entrances, that would have been hidden underwater normally. This could trigger the kuo-toa to act before theyre ready.
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#27 Miloch

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 06:07 AM

The best source of info on Balduran's voyage is his log book or Dradeel, his navigator. According to both sources, they set out for Anchorome with a crew of 200, half of which died there in an attack (by what is unclear). Balduran seems to have left around half his remaining crew on Anchorome and conscripted 150 new hands from the populace. This lot included at least one miscreant, a shaman who they 'committed to the sea.' They stopped at Balduran's Isle for a bit to replenish their fresh water and food, at which point the curse acquired on Anchorome caught up with them, and Balduran suggests setting off on his own toward the end of his log.

So there could've been a spy in that number, even amongst his 50 original crew who came back with him. Such a one could've easily slipped away in the ensuing chaos after the curse caught on, perhaps with a ring of water-breathing or the like. The Temple of Umberlee was probably around in Baldur's Gate even back then, and could've planted any number of people aboard the ship during initial recruiting (it's right by the docks after all).

According to PnP material, sometimes kuo-toa venture to the upper world to kidnap humans for slaves and sacrifices. They once inhabited the shores and islands of the surface but were driven underground by humans. But they have not forgotten mankind, "and woe to any who fall into their slimy clutches." So they certainly have motive for taking such a captive and even perhaps sustaining his life in order to let them wreak a heavier vengeance on mankind. They have powerful priests amongst them (maybe capable of longevity magic) and access to the elemental plane of water (where perhaps time flows differently).

As for the Friendly Arm, I was thinking of making a cellar for it even before this mod :D. It was once the hold of an undead priest of Bhaal destroyed by Bentley and his comrades. According to Volo, Bentley can call on folk from afar and perhaps some sort of magical gate exists in the cellars of what used to be the old keep.

The reason for the dried-up riverbed in Gullywine is on account of the sorcerous duel that destroyed the old elven town of Firewine about 200 years ago. Though there could be more to the ruins than one level though. Maybe there's more to the Candlekeep Caves or the Archaeological Site too.

Of course, we have to build the Seatower first! Hopefully we can get some dialogue writers and area artists... pro5 was working on the main external but he seems to have gone missing... :huh:

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#28 Escape1sm

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Posted 22 May 2007 - 11:41 AM

Thanks for that info, the whole concept, regardless of which direction it will go in, has got me itching to play it already :P

If i ever find time i'm going to have to learn how to mod :P
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#29 Rabain

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 10:07 PM

Any movement on this?
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#30 Ascension64

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:09 AM

I saw this for the first time. Looks very interesting.

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#31 Miloch

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 03:13 AM

You know, I was just going to ask if you'd ever done any subsequent edits to your map, or if anyone had heard from or had a way of contacting pro5. Last I'd heard, he had placed some more carts and catapults and things on the main map, and was almost done with some overlays for it. But alas, that work might be lost... :(

Also, Cuv had said he might be able to help with the interiors but he seems to be busy with porting animations and whatnot...

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#32 Rabain

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 04:17 AM

Perhaps Herd could be persuaded to donate some area's. I know he is still doing good work for WTP at BWL, if he has area's he might think are suitable they'd be useful.

Afterall how many area's where there. 4...5?

Also I'm away from home for a few months so don't have access to my original files so I'll not be doing any further work on the area.

Edited by Rabain, 22 November 2007 - 04:42 AM.

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#33 Miloch

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 05:21 AM

Afterall how many area's where there. 4...5?

There are about 6 small interiors for the tower (3 levels, 1 roof, 2 dungeons) and a larger seacavern area, which could perhaps be remastered somewhat from BG2 sahuagin areas or the like. I did some rough sketches in the post above. Maybe I should put in an "official" area request, but I suppose I should wait 'til I have more time to commit to this (though of course, I won't refuse any help in the meantime :)).

Also I'm away from home for a few months so don't have access to my original files so I'll not be doing any further work on the area.

Ah, that's a shame. But I can help you out with that first part at least due to some old PMs I dug up.

I've done a bit of touching up so here's the area.
http://www.blackwyrm...eas/AR0500a.rar

And I had this from pro5:

I'll see if I can populate the courtyard some more, it looks too empty as it is. I'm still loaded with work on other maps, this will have to wait for a while. But I'm looking forward to working with water overlays, it's something I haven't tried before.

I think he had said above he finished most of this. I sent him a PM but I haven't seen him around for months. Mainly (now that I look at the area again) I would like to see a little more shadowing where appropriate, and replacement of the roof tiles with a stone floor, a small turret/lighthouse and ballistae like the sketch I did. If you want to tinker with it in your spare time, great... no hurry. If not, I guess someone'll get around to it eventually...

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#34 Rabain

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:00 PM

If Pro5 has worked on this it might be best to get an image from him of the current layout...easier than trying to combine later...also if he has created the area and started working on walls etc it would make things a lot easier.
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#35 Azkyroth

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 07:47 PM

Just saw Miloch's sketches of the interior. Where the hell did you learn to do that? O.o
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#36 Miloch

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 11:04 PM

If Pro5 has worked on this it might be best to get an image from him of the current layout...easier than trying to combine later...also if he has created the area and started working on walls etc it would make things a lot easier.

Well, like I said, I PMed him but he seems to have gone missing even longer than I did. If anyone has an alternate contact for him, please let me know.

Just saw Miloch's sketches of the interior. Where the hell did you learn to do that? O.o

You're kidding, right? :blink: Like I said, I was stuck in traffic in an idling car with only a crappy pen (not even a pencil and eraser) and the back of some insurance papers... Not high art by any means, but hopefully it gets across at least a rough idea of what I had in mind.

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#37 Azkyroth

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 11:13 PM

If Pro5 has worked on this it might be best to get an image from him of the current layout...easier than trying to combine later...also if he has created the area and started working on walls etc it would make things a lot easier.

Well, like I said, I PMed him but he seems to have gone missing even longer than I did. If anyone has an alternate contact for him, please let me know.

Just saw Miloch's sketches of the interior. Where the hell did you learn to do that? O.o

You're kidding, right? :blink: Like I said, I was stuck in traffic in an idling car with only a crappy pen (not even a pencil and eraser) and the back of some insurance papers... Not high art by any means, but hopefully it gets across at least a rough idea of what I had in mind.


I mean, consistently getting the lines at the right angles to convey perspective properly.
"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard

#38 Miloch

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 11:28 PM

Oh, I dunno if I was that consistent (a pencil and a straightedge would've been a great help) but if I got the idea across at least, maybe the one or two drawing/drafting classes I had as a kid paid off somewhat :huh:.

Now if I could only translate that into some PSP-Fu skills with the area editing... Then just click a button and have the wall maps, container vertices, links and all that handled automatically... :wacko:

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#39 Miloch

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 06:28 PM

I mean, consistently getting the lines at the right angles to convey perspective properly.

I looked over your sketches and think I see what you mean now. You want to use an isometric graph paper to get that "3D look" instead of the regular 2D kind. (Your sketches are very precise though, for 2D).
Posted Image
If you want to really "convey perspective properly" you would need to taper those lines toward a horizon like in these graph papers. But since the BG2 engine doesn't do that either, I wouldn't worry about that part.

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#40 Azkyroth

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Posted 24 November 2007 - 06:56 PM

I mean, consistently getting the lines at the right angles to convey perspective properly.

I looked over your sketches and think I see what you mean now. You want to use an isometric graph paper to get that "3D look" instead of the regular 2D kind. (Your sketches are very precise though, for 2D).
If you want to really "convey perspective properly" you would need to taper those lines toward a horizon like in these graph papers. But since the BG2 engine doesn't do that either, I wouldn't worry about that part.


My "sketches" are TurboCAD 10 drawing files converted to BMP, hence my point about lack of artistic talent. I'll see if I can make the program do an isometric grid, though (argh...why didn't I think of that x.x).

Edited by Azkyroth, 24 November 2007 - 06:58 PM.

"Tyranny is a quiet thing at first, a prim and proper lady pursing her lips and shaking her head disapprovingly, asking, well what were you doing (wearing that dress, walking home at that hour, expressing those inappropriate thoughts) anyway? It's subtle and insidious, disguised as reasonable precautions which become more and more oppressive over time, until our lives are defined by the things we must avoid. She's easy enough to agree with, after all, she's only trying to help -- and yet she's one of the most dangerous influences we face, because if she prevails, it puts the raping, robbing, axe-wielding madmen of the world in complete control. Eventually they'll barely need to wield a thing, all they'll have to do is leer menacingly and we fall all over ourselves trying to placate them." -godlizard