187 replies to this topic

[Jarno Mikkola]

So leaving the conflicts between existing mods aside, are there any slots open now? I didn't look to see if there are any more unused slots in the game, just those slots used by other mods.

Well, if you install the Ghosts v1.1, and you put the creatures to use the assigned weapons, you'll have:

0xE0F2 IC_WAILING_VIRGIN MWAV 57586
- Axe ~ (0xE0F2)Wailing Virgin(used)
- Club ~ (0xE300)MGHO Ghost(freed)
- Dagger ~ (0xEA10)MSH1 Ghost(freed)
- Fail ~ (0xEA20)MSH2 Ghost(freed)

The 0xEcode is the animation hexadeca-ID's (in ShadowKeeper etc.)

The first two is the goblin general in IWD2.

[Miloch]

So leaving the conflicts between existing mods aside, are there any slots open now?

Well, if you install the Ghosts v1.1, and you put the creatures to use the assigned weapons, you'll have:

0xE0F2 IC_WAILING_VIRGIN MWAV 57586
- Axe ~ (0xE0F2)Wailing Virgin(used)
- Club ~ (0xE300)MGHO Ghost(freed)
- Dagger ~ (0xEA10)MSH1 Ghost(freed)
- Fail ~ (0xEA20)MSH2 Ghost(freed)

Yeah but those are still used by other mods (CtB/TS/NEJ2). So you'll still have a conflict if you play any of those, unless someone patches them to use the new animations.

The first two is the goblin general in IWD2.

Thanks (yet another conflict at MGO3 between plain BG2, CtB and NEJ2).

[Jarno Mikkola]

Yeah but those are still used by other mods (CtB/TS/NEJ2). So you'll still have a conflict if you play any of those, unless someone patches them to use the new animations.

And one needs to replace the correct weapons to those creatures. But let's hope that, when Cuv's work is finnished, and it's far from it for now, the modder's make the patching effort.

Thanks (yet another conflict at MGO3 between plain BG2, CtB and NEJ2).

And CA uses that animation too. I don't know where the original came from, but CA uses the last one also, as the 0xEC10 MWI2(Ic_Wight2), the same as so many times adviced to be use as a file name in CUV's readme's, although as it's a Total Convertion mod, it rarelly is used as a base. Unless you are me, and want to take a funny screeshot's...

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 01 December 2007 - 04:34 AM.

[Cuv]

If anyone could do some leg-work and get me the info on each mod that uses new animations, what slot they use, and a current list of their use of the IC (IWD) animation use... that would be REALLY helpful. I simply do not have the time to download every mod to check them all out.

Here you go:
BG2 Animation Slots

Also, here is the source spreadsheet if you want to sort it differently (it's sorted by prefix). This includes an analysis of all animations added by the larger mods. I started with King Diamond's spreadsheet and Galactygon's readme for Bestial Animations and went from there.

Thank you VERY much. Yeah, that helps alot.

As you can see, there are loads of conflicts. Frankly, I don't know how anyone does a mega-mod install, since they'll be overwriting creature animations left and right. Maybe that is exactly what happens and no one knows what the original creatures should've been. (Though you'd think when you see something like "Drider- Death" and you just killed a Wight, you'd get suspicious...). Total conversions, as you said, are different but even those might be running out of slots, and most of the other mods are supposed to work together in BP installs.

Well, my latest upload ends many of the conflicts. I have uploaded the Wights (more IWD undead) to the Mummy slot. This frees up 7 slots and ends more conflicts. I have a few slot reservations... so that list you gave here will change a bit. I still need to sort out some of Galactygon's assignments... he didnt know, but her overwrote two key slots. We have discussed it together.

I think all these conflicts could probably be resolved, but it might take some work and some serious patching. It looks like you and Galactygon use the IWD style animation naming scheme, which is probably the most efficient. That way you have separate series under each 4-letter prefix for each weapon. The drawback is you need to make sure all the CREs have that particular weapon (or so I'm guessing). Another drawback is the death animation thing, though it sounds like you have a workaround (though I'm not sure how well it works).

Yeah, I am suprised that there havent been more complaints about conflict. Or perhaps... the current conflict is minimal. Not sure, I dont have a mega install. But future conflict can certainly be avoided with some careful planning.

Cuv, did you know your slots MWAVD and MWAVF for the IWD Shadows (and maybe the Ghost too) duplicate Galactygon's in the MLER (0xE050 IC_LICHBLACK) slots? Maybe you can put something else in the duplicate slots, since they're already assigned. Although your assignments might make more sense if all animations on the same slot share the same death animation (it doesn't make sense to have, say, a wight and a beetle on the same slot in that case).

I'd like to see some of the reptilian creatures (Trocopotaca, Grillig, Gronk) assigned next. I'm thinking maybe one of the basilisk or salamander slots could be rearranged for this... not sure.

So leaving the conflicts between existing mods aside, are there any slots open now? I didn't look to see if there are any more unused slots in the game, just those slots used by other mods.

Yes, I know about MLER... G and I have discussed it. That slot will need to be de-composed. Have faith... not even remotely finished yet.

As for free slots... you bet! Here is a current list of Assignments and free slots (and pending assignments):

Assigned Slots (real or pending)

0x7F2B MMAX MDK2_MAX // 32555 = Restored Death Tyrant with RTW
0x7F31 NELL ELLESIME // 32561 = Reserved for Fall From Grace/pending
0x7F33 MKUR MDK2_KURT // 32563 = New Ellesime slot/pending
0x7F34 MDOC MDK2_DOCTOR // 32564 = Holding out for something special
0xE0F2 MWAV IC_WAILING_VIRGIN // 57586 = Ghost Slot Core
0xE080 MMUM IC_MUMMY // 57472 = Wight Slot Core

Free Slots (dont you dare go running off to fill these )

0xE300 MGHO IC_GHOST // 58112 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot
0xE310 MGH2 IC_GHOUL // 58128 = Reserve for Liam per Wight Slot
0xE320 MGH3 IC_GHAST // 58144 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEA10 MSH1 IC_SHADE // 59920 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot, removes conflict with BA
0xEA20 MSH2 IC_SHADE2 // 59936 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot
0xEC00 MWIG IC_WIGHT // 60416 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEC10 MWI2 IC_WIGHT2 // 60432 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEC20 MWI3 IC_WIGHT3 // 60448 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEE00 MZO2 IC_ZOMBIE // 60928 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEE10 MZO3 IC_ZOMBIE2 // 60944 = Free Slot per Wight Slot

Edit: Oh, I forgot there were a few animations I couldn't identify exactly. I could guess, but I don't want to do that. Anyone know what these are?

All IWDII - Two goblins, Neo-Orog Elite, Feyr and Greater Feyr

I resolved the problem with the CVWights upload... you may proceed. I had forgotten to remove the Temp patch item for the in-game mummies... and assign a real one. Done now.


Cuv

[Miloch]

Ok, well I updated the list with the new mummy slots and more info.

Free Slots (dont you dare go running off to fill these )

0xE300 MGHO IC_GHOST // 58112 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot
0xE310 MGH2 IC_GHOUL // 58128 = Reserve for Liam per Wight Slot
0xE320 MGH3 IC_GHAST // 58144 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEA10 MSH1 IC_SHADE // 59920 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot, removes conflict with BA
0xEA20 MSH2 IC_SHADE2 // 59936 = Free Slot per Ghost Slot
0xEC00 MWIG IC_WIGHT // 60416 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEC10 MWI2 IC_WIGHT2 // 60432 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEC20 MWI3 IC_WIGHT3 // 60448 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEE00 MZO2 IC_ZOMBIE // 60928 = Free Slot per Wight Slot
0xEE10 MZO3 IC_ZOMBIE2 // 60944 = Free Slot per Wight Slot

Well, it's not like I'm gonna go spamming up a bunch of slots, but none of these are really free as such anyway...

0xE300  MGHO  IC_GHOST   Ghost/Yeti			  CtB-TS-NEJ2/RTT
-0xE300 MGHO  IC_GHOST   PST Giant Skeleton	  CA
0xE310  MGH2  IC_GHOUL   Barbarian 1/IWD Golem   CtB/NEJ2
-0xE310 MGH2  IC_GHOUL   Gehreleth			   CA
0xE320  MGH3  IC_GHAST   Barbarian 2/Grillig	 CtB/CA
0xEA10  MSH1  IC_SHADE   IWD Shadow/Drider Male  TS-NEJ2/LC
0xEA20  MSH2  IC_SHADE2  IWD Shadow 2			TS-NEJ2-CA
0xEC00  MWIG  IC_WIGHT   Drider Female/Wight 1   CtB/NEJ2-CA
0xEC10  MWI2  IC_WIGHT2  Wight 2				 NEJ2
-0xEC10 MWI2  IC_WIGHT2  Greater Feyr			CA
0xEC20  MWI3  IC_WIGHT3  Red Wight/Verbeeg	   NEJ2/CA
0xEE00  MZO2  IC_ZOMBIE  Black Harpy/Samurai	 CtB/RoT
-0xEE00 MZO2  IC_ZOMBIE  Bugbear				 CA
0xEE10  MZO3  IC_ZOMBIE2 Dark Treant			 BP-CtB
-0xEE10 MZO3  IC_ZOMBIE2 White Abishai		   CA

Maybe this can be resolved eventually though. I'm also thinking the beetles can all go in one slot, and maybe the giant skeletons as SBB suggested. And I'm sure a bunch of other stuff you're probably already looking at...

[Caedwyr]

I'm thinking with Cuv's work on getting all these animations to work together, the idea is to make this more of a new standard for creature animations instead of yet another incompatible layer of additional creature animations.

Then again, some of the modders on Miloch's list of what mods use what will probably not be interested in compatibility. Hopefully the bulk of them do switch over to the new system.

Edited by Caedwyr, 01 December 2007 - 09:48 AM.

[Cuv]

Yeah, I hope so too... but in any case, doing this going forward will at least remove comatibility issues with those mods. I am going to set up my RTW quest content to incorporate the new slots. I use many of those creatures already, but in poorly chosen slots. Back when I first assigned them, there was little concern for compatibility as there were not very many mods out there that used ported animations. I am sure the other mod authors would feel similarly and either be willing to make patches... or allow patches to be made for their mods.

Will see what I can do with the skeletons next, there arent that many... but will choose a slot with little or no current conflict. Thanks again Miloch... that list is very helpful indeed. Will make sure you get mention in the next upload and will include the list.

Cuv

[Chevalier]

I am sure that the modders of these SoBH, BP, CtB, DZ, RoT, SoS, TDD and TS-BP would let someone make a patch for there mod.


To: Miloch on your list is TS TS-BP or TS? They are not the same when it comes to animations.

[Miloch]

To: Miloch on your list is TS TS-BP or TS? They are not the same when it comes to animations.

It was the BP version, as were, I think, most of the other mods I looked at that had BP versions. I figured those who are playing/maintaining the non-BP versions probably aren't that interested in compatibility anyway.

I think once we come up with some more standards, it wouldn't be too difficult to write a universal patch you could install after those mods that would look for and correct any animation incompatibilities. Basically it would scan through all CREs of the problematic animations, reassign the animations and assign them the relevant weapon (undroppable probably, unless they'd have that weapon normally). The main problem might be for mod-added CREs that already have weapons, but with ADD_CRE_ITEM you could move those to inventory. It looks like Cuv's code pretty much does this already for the most part.

Oh, I should mention that I'm also using MZO3 for the Dark Treant as is BP and CtB. I started off using the slot Galactygon assigned, but then I figured Treants probably need their own death animation since they don't really look like anything else, and why not use whatever slot existing mods are using.

[Cuv]

Oh, I should mention that I'm also using MZO3 for the Dark Treant as is BP and CtB. I started off using the slot Galactygon assigned, but then I figured Treants probably need their own death animation since they don't really look like anything else, and why not use whatever slot existing mods are using.

That sounds reasonable. In fact, there are several animation slots that more than one mod use, I dont see any reason to break those. Your example, MZO3 is now a free slot... may as well assign it the Treant animation if not only you, but BP and CtB also use it. What does everyone think? I really want to keep conflicts to a minimum. This whole idea is meant to help resolve and/or prevent conflicts.

I also dont have a problem with where Galactygon assigned the Driders. They use weapons and need full slots.... unless you all think they can do without weapons... and just stand there looking cool...lol.

[Sir BillyBob]

Great to hear you have condensed the wights with the mummies. I have one area in my mod where I use several of both, so I can really do some cramming now.

The two frey creatures come from IWD2. I have been using several of those animations in CA. They have some great bugbear animations in that game.

Chev - SoBH doesn't use anything special for animation slots. I added in the green lizardmen to Tutu because the BG1/BG2 game only has the large orange lizardmen, not the smaller green ones, those are in IWD. So I place them into their proper animation slots. The conflict would be with any other mod "assuming" those slots are open because in default BG2, they are. Therefore, SoBH has problems with BP since it used the green lizardman slot for some other creature.

Driders probably don't need real weapons. Can they use their front legs instead? I think I would be more scared of eight legs attacking me than a creature with a bow or axe.

[Caedwyr]

It'd be nice to leave the option of driders using weapons, since they tend to be closer to a player race than a monster in some cases. Leaving weapons switchable would make it more open to future modding.

[Miloch]

I also dont have a problem with where Galactygon assigned the Driders. They use weapons and need full slots.... unless you all think they can do without weapons... and just stand there looking cool...lol.

BP assigns the Drider Male to MLIC (conflict with IC_LICH?), CtB assigns it to MHIS (IC_HISTACHII) and LC assigns it to MSH1 (IC_SHADE).

BP assigns the Drider Female to MUM2 (IC_UMBERHULK 2), CtB assigns it to MWIG (IC_WIGHT) and LC assigns it to MLI3 (IC_LIZARDCASTER3).

The problem with using the LC standard there is that a ton of mods (BP, NEJ2, BH, CA) already use MLI3 for the standard animation of Lizard King. So I would go with the more established standard (either BP or CtB - whatever make more sense and causes less conflict).

Although the goblins would make a good grouping, some of them might actually have unique weapons. I think CREs like beetles etc. are likelier to have no weapons, so they could easily be grouped in one slot.

Also my spreadsheet got hosed somehow - when I did the last update and added a bunch of rows, a bunch of others got deleted. So hopefully that is fixed now.

[Caedwyr]

If you (Cuv or any other animation masters) are in the mood for some creativity, I know there has been calls for a female gnome animation that uses a female elf animation that has been shrunken down instead of the male dwarf animation it currently uses.

[Miloch]

If you (Cuv or any other animation masters) are in the mood for some creativity, I know there has been calls for a female gnome animation that uses a female elf animation that has been shrunken down instead of the male dwarf animation it currently uses.

Yeah, I brought it up way back when in this thread.

Out of curiosity, how hard would it be to create a set of animations for female gnomes and/or dwarves that don't have beards? Right now, they just use either the male dwarf or female halfling avatars - there was a big discussion here about it.

Thanks, I read most of the thread. Yep, the problems brought up are old problems. The 'easiest' way... and I use that term lightly, would be to edit out the beards. But that means using BamWorkshop... and anyone who has worked with animations knows that it can mess up the colors. DLTCEP can fix most things though.

I will take a look through the games and see if I can come up with a solution on an animation to use... but then you get into that whole weapon alignment thing mentioned.

I think a mini-elf would look stupid though, especially next to a male gnome, unless your NPC was a pixie. Modding the existing male gnome/dwarf avatar to be more "feminine" is more feasible, as Cuv says. Though you would have to export all sequences from BAM Workshop, touch up every single frame in PSP or the like, then reimport the sequences into BAM Workshop. Which would be extremely time-consuming, unless someone knows of a better tool to do that. Since it's only an issue for the female gnome mages, as a workaround, I assign those the female gnome thief avatar. It's hooded anyway, and close enough, unless you're picky about a joinable NPC.

[Jarno Mikkola]

I am sure that if you Cuv could make a one(or more) animation slot for all the orc(axes, bows, commander, mages/shamans, and perhaps the hobgoblins, goblins etc.) families, someone would use them. And the death animation could be the default critical strike death animation, the one which the body is choped up to pieces.

[Miloch]

I am sure that if you Cuv could make a one(or more) animation slot for all the orc(axes, bows, commander, mages/shamans, and perhaps the hobgoblins, goblins etc.) families, someone would use them. And the death animation could be the default critical strike death animation, the one which the body is choped up to pieces.

You'd have to make sure each one uses a specific weapon, which goblinoids don't. And it would look weird if you used the "chunking" animation, because there'd still be bodies after it plays, unless you actually did chunk them. I think it makes more sense to group the beetles, spiders, reptiles, etc. next, since they have no weapons.

Use this thread for future discussions - I think Cuv wanted to start a new one because this one was getting too long.

[The Imp]

I've Always wondered myself... How to edit the "animate.2da"?

It's animate.ids file... as far as I can say, the animations are hardcoded in Icewind Dale(needing a patch to the icewind.exe to add one). And they are probably also in a different format ...