6 replies to this topic

[SLY]

Basically, I wanna know how spellcasting (from mage, sorcerer, druids, etc.) works?
(If you can be thorough on how this works, you don?t have to answer the questions below.)

* Firstly, how can they cast spells w/o mana? Or are they using mana? (I think it should be something like the chakra-thing from Naruto.)
* What exactly do they memorize to be able to cast spells? (I?m sure there?s something more than just chants and hand gestures.)
* I don?t know if this is just gaming rules and not actually applied on the actual world of Forgotten Realms, but why do they have to rememorize the same spell every time before they rest? (I think I can memorize a foreign anthem and be able to recite/sing it for like? hmm? forever? I think if they memorize a certain spell, they don?t have to rememorize the same spell for the next day because the more you do it, the more you get familiar with it.) And is it much better to memorize something ?after? you rest? (not really related, but still.)
* Why do other classes, like fighters and thieves, can?t cast spells or has limited casting abilities? Or do they just simply choose not to be acquainted with magic?
* How does mage casting different from cleric casting and druid casting? (I think cleric get their power from their gods and druids from nature, what about mages?)
* Is a mage?s Finger of Death different from a priest?s Finger of Death spell? If it?s the same, why can?t they do other spells as well, like a non-multiclass druid casting a Spell Trap?
* What difference does their class casting abilities from their innate casting abilities? [Remember the special abilities button (F12) in BG? I believe there are some mage and priest spells there from different kits.]
* What makes a sorcerer a different from your average wizard other than the fact that they don?t learn spells through scrolls? (Is it applicable on their actual world?)

Oh boy, can?t believe how stupid I am. I got a lot more questions and these are just of what I remember at the moment. Hope anyone could me.

[Jarno Mikkola]

1) Firstly...
2) What exactly...
3) I don?t ...
4) Why do other classes, like fighters and thieves, can?t cast spells or has limited casting abilities? Or do they just simply choose not to be acquainted with magic?
5) How does mage casting different from cleric casting and druid casting? (I think cleric get their power from their gods and druids from nature, what about mages?)
6) Is a mage?s Finger of Death different from a priest?s Finger of Death spell? If it?s the same, why can?t they do other spells as well, like a non-multiclass druid casting a Spell Trap?
7) What difference does their class casting abilities from their innate casting abilities?

I chose what I could answer, and the answers aren't to be taken literally, as a cannon...
1) No mana use here, they memorize the mythic knowledge that comes from the ancients, the hidden lore of the forgotten, and they learn how to manipulate it and to somehow forget it, and then they move on...
2) Well, there is also the components that might need to be gathered.
3) To me it's the gaming rules...
4) Well considering you haven't been taught to cast spells, you can consider yourself a warrior or thief etc. So why can't you cast spells?
5) The priests use a conduit to prey for their gods might upon them and their allies, but it all dependes on the will of the god to determne the outcome of the spells...
6) No it's the same, but here come the rules of the game, you must have them!, you know.
7) The innate abilities are faster, and only the chosen one's can get them. The choosing who can and who cannot is always specified by the rules of the game.

[Solar's Harper]

6) No it's the same, but here come the rules of the game, you must have them!, you know.

To that point, having a faster cast time is a must when you use it - The Robe of Vecna for mages significantly improves your chances, since spellslingers are typically the AI's target above the tank characters.

As far as how magic goes:

Normal Mages (and specialist classes: ie - Conjurer) memorise spells as Jarno has already pointed out, and once they've been used, they must rest to memorize them again. Of course having say, two magic missile spells selected for use, will give you exactly two uses of the spell.

Sorcerers, a bit different, since their ability to cast magic is innate.
They have gain magic by experience (leveling up) and the amount of times they can use the spells they choose per level up depends on their ability scores for the main things (INT and CHA if Fixpack is used on BG2).

As such, their magic is always ready for use once the sorcerer's energy is recharged so to speak by resting, they can use more of the same magic, but cannot gain as many spells as other mage types. They also cannot memorize spells from scrolls, but they can use scrolls just as easily as any mage can.

Clerics, their spell system is exactly the same as a normal type mage, excepting of course for the occupational difference - druids and clerics will naturally, have access to different types of spells, and an evil aligned cleric will be able to access some spells a good aligned one cannot, but be restricted otherwise. Whereas a neutral cleric, has dibs on both sides of the table, but is not spoiled to a large extent.

Much of this is explained in the manual actually. Of course it never hurts to ask.

I sure hope I haven't put anyone in the dead book yet by forcing you all to listen to me making another long speech.

Edit: Must... resist... strangling... the typos!!!!

Edited by Solar's Harper, 01 January 2008 - 03:19 AM.

[Ilmatar]

That was really interesting! I'm really glad this question got asked and then explained so thoroughly and well as our mysterious Guest did. I've been wondering about the same things, really, especially as I haven't been reading the rulebooks that much either.

A cleric essentially casts spells by praying to their god "HAY GOD I NEED HEAL SPELLS PLZ?" and the god goes "K, LOL" (...or "NO BECAUSE YOU SUCK" if the cleric isn't doing things right) and grants the cleric the ability to cast it. (Although it's obviously somewhat more complicated than that.)

And that was the best part.

[Miloch]

An arcane spell is basically a recipe which is followed to produce an effect, but the caster (usually) doesn't actually know how or why. However, arcane casters can generally be said to know more about it than divine casters.

I think at least the higher level mages know something of the "how and why" of their spells. Particularly when a number of spells (e.g. Bigby's Insulting Hand Gesture, Drawmij's Uncontrollable Horizontal Shuffle or whatever) are named after the wizards who created them. As Jarno already suggested, most canon rules observed "material and somatic" components. Material being "eye of newt, blood of dragon" or whatever, and somatic being a hand gesture or verbal component. So by combining different versions of these or inventing new ones, wizards can in theory come up with new spells. And if they run out of material components for a spell, they can't "memorize" that spell until they find those reagents (not all spells have material components though).

Sadly though, none of that is implemented in BG, though it's canon in 2e and most other versions of the rules. I've long thought it'd make a pretty cool mod though, and maybe also some version of your "deity favour" reference for divine spellcasters. Just think - a mod that lets you create your own spells if you discover certain raw materials and combine them in the right proportion, and possess the right skills/levels/attributes (and maybe pass a lore/luck/random check too)? It could be done.

[vilkacis]

I think at least the higher level mages know something of the "how and why" of their spells.

I know 2E had rules that would let a sufficiently high-level mage basically create any spell he could think of, with lists of difficulty modifiers for the effect, range, casting time, components and so on... along with a note stating that casters who get powerful enough *will* indeed begin to understand the hows and whys.

For anyone below those levels, though, there doesn't really seem to be any straight answers to be had. They're not "supposed" to know how magic works, but people of <20 levels obviously *do* create their own spells, and if they don't know what they're doing it wouid mean that *every* single spell they create was basically a lucky accident...

I suppose you could view D&D as a big pot of soup, with like 743 different chefs running around pouring in their own ingredients, not always bothering to check if that works with what the previous guy put in...