37 replies to this topic

[Miloch]

Ideally, for a Tutu version I would see if you could use David Wallace's excellent SCS scripting for the dragon's AI. Ditto for Dark Side's kobolds and drow.

Heh, DavidW got his kobolds from DSotSC in the first place, so it'd be a bit like robbing Peter to pay Paul . No doubt he may have made some improvements though, so I suppose we could look into that for the future. Our main task for this release is just making it Tutu compatible and to fix any glaring issues.

Where can I get a copy to look over?

The last mod by the original authors is still on fileplanet. Or if you don't want to hose your install with a non-WeiDU mod, you can just get the CoM mod, which is basically just a WeiDUised version of that (though it missed a few things, which we are amending in our update).

As far as soundsets, or lack of them are concerned, the following is what is done for Bub and Bardo in the BGT DSotSC .tp2

And the .tra references for Bardo's sound clips are:

@20301 = ~~ 
@20302 = ~~ 
@20304 = ~~ 
@20305 = ~~ 
@20306 = ~~ 
@20307 = ~~ 
@20308 = ~~ 
@20309 = ~~ 
@20310 = ~~ 
@20303 = ~~ 
@20338 = ~~ 
@20339 = ~~ 
@20311 = ~~ 
@20312 = ~~ 
@20313 = ~~ 
@20314 = ~~ 
@20315 = ~~ 
@20316 = ~~ 
@20317 = ~~ 
@20318 = ~~ 
@20319 = ~~ 
@20320 = ~~ 
@20321 = ~~ 
@20322 = ~~ 
@20323 = ~~ 
@20324 = ~~ 
@20325 = ~~ 
@20326 = ~~

So it's evident that the intent of the BGT version was to clear his soundset, but apparently it didn't have that effect, or it didn't finish the job. And I suspect there's some hardcoded funk on Bub's CREs that isn't intentional either. Under these circumstances, I wouldn't even bother making it an optional component (it won't be in the Tutu version) but I'll leave that to you and your players to decide.

Miloch, still love me?

Sure, son.

Edited by Miloch, 04 August 2008 - 01:06 PM.

[Azazello]

The TRAs (and other changes, or lack thereof) of the BGT version may be just an oversight, not really an intention to flush the soundset. That's my theory. A64 can tell us more.

As a Purist (I know you hate the word, so I'm gonna use it as much as possible, wherever possible), I would love see as much of the original content of the mod reset into the BGT version (yes, even the ridiculously overpowered weapons and creatures) -- minus errors and bugs<=>typos, of course. A challenge for another modder perhaps, but it would be interesting to see such a revisit.

Before you start huffing, do not read this the wrong way! I do not presume or challenge any work that you and others are doing to accomplish or change this. In fact, I eagerly await to see your developments, and I'm sure the results will be terrific.

Eh, quit talking to me as if I'm a child, son... I'm probably old enough to be your grandpappy.

Miloch, still love me?

Sure, son.

http://en.wikipedia....abbe#Television

Crabbe made regular television appearances, including one on an episode of the 1979 series Buck Rogers in the 25th Century, where he played a retired fighter pilot named "Brigadier Gordon" in honor of Flash Gordon. When Rogers (Gil Gerard) praises his flying, Gordon replies "I've been doing that sort of thing since before you were born." Rogers (who was born over 500 years earlier) responds "You think so?" to which Gordon replies "Young man, I know so." Crabbe had, in fact, been playing "Buck Rogers" since long before Gerard was born. And as he said that, he looked straight into the camera and winked at the audience.

[Miloch]

The TRAs (and other changes, or lack thereof) of the BGT version may be just an oversight, not really an intention to flush the soundset. That's my theory. A64 can tell us more.

Why would A64 know? I thought SBB did the original conversion. And there's no original content like I said, so I don't know what someone would've put there, unless they translated the corresponding strings in the German .tra (which is what I did).

Before you start huffing, do not read this the wrong way!

Why would I? I'll leave that for SBB or erebusant to huff about. Any original content is already in our version, and as a *real* purist, I'm committed to preserving it (within reason, and that doesn't prevent me from fixing defective content or filling in missing content). I just thought it a bit absurd you'd call the SHS version the "purist" version .

[leahnkain]

I think SBB would welcome the changes to DSotSC as long as he didn?t have to make them. He has been really busy with Classic Adventures. If you like I can email him. As for art, people should be careful when using art which comes from famous artist. More and more artists are taking notice. This is one reason why Classic Adventures uses mostly original art. It is a wise move to change the pictures and use new art. Also if done correctly it could be used as a way to attract new players by advertising a huge update. I think the community should be thanking Miloch for his hard efforts to make new pictures for the characters. I think it is a big improvement. I remember when this was first released. I played it and said to myself, why would I ever take any other NPC except these new ones. They were incredibly over powered to the point where it was making the player seem useless.

[Miloch]

As for art, people should be careful when using art which comes from famous artist.

Yeah, I think the "original" portraits were all D&D module/novel scans, except maybe Jet'laya's, which I believe is straight from IWD. Conchobhair's I seem to recall from one of the older SSI "gold box" games. That's the main reason I did the alternates - the other is that they match BG's "head shot" style more closely, rather than the full/upper body style. To be honest, I only "drew" about half of the new portraits and edited the rest from ones I found mainly in NWN portrait packs, but I asked around if anyone knew of copyright or other issues with those and heard nothing, so they're probably safer than the "originals." Then again, if DSotSC has been around this long and no one's complained yet, those might be safe too, but you never know. (I'm not too fond of "scanned novel cover" style portraits anyway, but everyone has their preferences.)

[leahnkain]

I have noticed in japan, only recently Japanese artist have begun to hunt down people who have stolen their images. I am sure American artist will do the same one day. I am not 100% sure but The Cry for Dawn artist has sued before. My point is why use cover scans when there is nice alternatives. If you are unhappy with some, CA can donate some original art to complete this project. Overall I think it is a nice new set and I would love to see the cover scans used as alternative pictures. I am 99% positive SBB would support this view.

[Chevalier]

Change Jet'Laya's portrait? Are you Crazy? Well maybe a closeup of that portrait. The others I understand, it's just that I am used to some of them.

[leahnkain]

Jet'Laya has a bioware made picture.Her original picture is fine. Keiria Silverstring uses a picture from Cry for Dawn, I would use that picture with caution, the others appear to be scans for book covers. If it is an Elmore picture he has clearly said it is OK to use his art as long as he gets credit and no profit is made. i am unsure of the other book cover artist feelings.
I like Miloch's set of NPC pictures and I think they breath a lot of life into this classic mod. (A goal of CA is to get modders to eventually mod our TC.)
I am sure the original creators would love to see romances made, better soundsets added and original art for their NPC's. This is a good way to attract new players who would like to add to the mod.

[Miloch]

Change Jet'Laya's portrait? Are you Crazy? Well maybe a closeup of that portrait.

How's this? (before/after)

Luckily, K'aeloree dug up some larger versions of the IWD portraits, otherwise that resolution wouldn't've been possible.

Write a romance for her (or at least dialogue) that makes it worthwhile to keep her through ToB and you can even have an epilogue-sized portrait for her. Maybe that'll give you suitable motivation to write .

As Meira says in that thread, it might be Justin Sweet's work (and therefore subject to copyright) but as leahnkain says, being as how it already appears in IWD, I guess it's ok. I think leahnkain definitely has a point about the others though. Might still want to give proper credit in the readme. I think I prefer the more elvish portrait (since this one I believe is for a human in IWD) but as long as it's the right dimensions (BG instead of IWD), I have no other objections to this one.

[Chevalier]

[leahnkain]

Classic Adventures has a few original pictures which we probably won't use. This was done with line art. The armor still needs some touch ups. I think it is equal quality to the current picture. Like I have always said, if all modders can help each other, all of the mods will benefit.

Jet'Laya? (If you want to use this picture let me know. I will remove it in a few days if it isn't wanted. (i will find some use for it.) I think it matches Jet'Laya well. The ears might need edited and the eye color could probably be changed as well.

Edited: Picture sent via PM.

Edited by leahnkain, 07 August 2008 - 02:22 AM.

[Azazello]

Any original content is already in our version, and as a *real* purist, I'm committed to preserving it (within reason, and that doesn't prevent me from fixing defective content or filling in missing content). I just thought it a bit absurd you'd call the SHS version the "purist" version .

Your absurdity is between you and your god.

Nowhere in my post do I say or imply the SHS version is the purist version. As a Purist, I believe a designer's original content should be maintained, with additional content from other contributors clearly labeled as-such, and made optional for use. A *real* purist would share that view.

All the new artwork is beautiful, and the old art is beautifully re-rendered. leahnkain, I'm in love with whoever that adventuress is. It still continues the tradition that women's armor won't protect against a sneeze much less a weapon strike, but with such loveliness, no one cares!

[leahnkain]

Classic Adventures has a a few pictures we could donate to this project. The key point is if we get together we can breathe new life into this mod. You should check the Classic Adventures homepage. We have a lot of original art. (recently we have updated some NPC pictures.) This was in a picture in progress. I doubt it will get finished because we already are using another picture for the NPC. I think we might even have some maps in the future which I made which will not be used. Just imagine if we all pitched in and shared what we aren't using in our mods with others. If the picture is going to be used please tell me and I will tell the artist Ivanna. I have full premission from her to use or edit the picture however I like.

Nowhere in my post do I say or imply the SHS version is the purist version. As a Purist, I believe a designer's original content should be maintained, with additional content from other contributors clearly labeled as-such, and made optional for use. A *real* purist would share that view.

I remember playing this when it was first released. It was buggy, the NPC's were too powerful. I think that new content should be welcome. My simple advice for this is make the very original availible and let the player know in the readme, that this is a new 2008 version which differs in many ways from the orginal. Then as an add on pack include the oriignal art and soundsets for the purest.

Edited by leahnkain, 05 August 2008 - 11:32 PM.

[Miloch]

Nowhere in my post do I say or imply the SHS version is the purist version.

Oh hush. You did too:

Call me a "SHS purist" then... In the DS/NTotSC version for BGT, some of the chars have limited but unique soundsets, and some had none. Whatever. I propose we maintain this 'original' version

Now stop quibbling already! I thought we'd moved on past this whole ridiculous "purity" argument.

So anyway, the portrait is really nice, leahnkain. Possibly too nice for an NPC without much dialogue. (And even if a certain someone writes some dialogue, I'm sure that someone prefers her "original"/modded original portrait anyway...). Personally, I'd be happy to include it as another alternate, but I'm not sure how much use it would get buried in such a component. All it needs is a couple chains to hold the armour together and some shading here and there, and it should really see the light of day properly. I'm almost tempted to use it for an alternate Jaheira .

(Also, once I finish fixing old mods and start a few of my own I've had on the back burner, I may come knocking on your door, if you're still willing to share content .)

[leahnkain]

So anyway, the portrait is really nice, leahnkain. Possibly too nice for an NPC without much dialogue.

I hate to say this but she was deemed one of the pictures the team didn't even say anything nice about. I guess the CA team is spoiled when it comes to NPC art. This picture at best was probably going to be used for a NPC who has two or three lines. So of course it is better to use her for a popular NPC.

You can use her however you like, just let me know the changes made. Please give the original artist, Ivanna credit in the readme and mention the CA Team.

Miloch, you should try CA. Our goal is to have a new area of the realms for modders to mod. No Bhaal, I am sure you would enjoy. (Alot of original maps as well to explore)

Edited by leahnkain, 06 August 2008 - 05:52 AM.

[Miloch]

I hate to say this but she was deemed one of the pictures the team didn't even say anything nice about.

Well I can't really find a whole lot of fault with it aside from what I mentioned. The only other thing is I'm not really fond of over-exaggerated elf ears, but that seems to be how everyone draws them these days. I do like to see some hint of the ears at least, so they don't just look human (like the IWD portrait) but some artists seem to go a bit overboard.

Miloch, you should try CA. Our goal is to have a new area of the realms for modders to mod. No Bhaal, I am sure you would enjoy. (Alot of original maps as well to explore)

Yes, I'm keen to do so. But I'm still stuck in modding BG1, so it might be a while. I don't even recall when I actually last played a game of any sort... been too busy with modding and RL stuff .

[leahnkain]

The picture really didn?t measure up with the other NPC pictures. (Note most of the NPC?s pictures are not photos which have been photoshopped. I have the lineart to to prove it. )Here is an example of what CA original art usually looks like. This is why we won7t use the picture. Just let me know if you have a copy Miloch and I will remove the picture so nobody else snags it.

http://ca.spellholds...?p=npc&s=althon

http://ca.spellholds...=npc&s=candella

I honestly haven?t played the BG series for at least 5 years. I have been meaning to play BG again for a long time but CA takes up a lot of time. Seriously, CA has about the same amount of content as IWD and has a lot of NPC?s which make the game replayable. (They actually have a lot of dialog) There are multiple paths in the story to get you to point a to point b and best of all you get to play through Gary Gygax?s classic modules and experience how Dungeons and Dragons used to be. Surprisingly we have attached a lot of new players but all of the serious modders haven?t tried CA or haven?t left much needed feedback. We are about to include the biggest city ever made by a modder, actually it is bigger than Baldur?s Gate, we always welcome feedback and can?t wait for you to get some free time to try out CA.(who knows maybe we can recruit an experienced modder like yourself to join the small team of CA)

[melkor_morgoth75]

Miloch, you should try CA. Our goal is to have a new area of the realms for modders to mod. No Bhaal, I am sure you would enjoy. (Alot of original maps as well to explore)

Well, i'd also liike to play it --- just iwill wait until it is finished (i know, long time ...). But u know ... why spoil now everything? It's the only mod really i'd like to play in the future, keep it up!

mm75

PS: sorry for the off-topic