20 replies to this topic

[Epantiras]

I need help! I am trying to draw Kivan for the art challenge. I'd like to draw his equipment in a realistic way: I'd like him to wear his trademark cloak AND a quiver. While searching for reference photos, I noticed that the belt(s) of the quiver must pass around the archer's waist, making wearing a cloak quite uncomfortable.

On the other hand, if the quiver is attached to the belts only in the 'upper part' (therefore it is not attached to the belts around the waist) it becomes 'unstable' and could 'dangle' left and right while the archer is running.

I whish I had the LoTR DVDs because iirc Legolas used to have a cloak, a quiver, a bow and a pair of swords on his back o_O how's it possible? Seldarine powers? Velcro?? ;-)

Do you have any suggestion? I attach some quick sketches to explain my problem better

Attached Images

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Edited by Epantiras, 27 October 2008 - 07:45 AM.

[Jazhara7]

Epantiras, on Oct 27 2008, 04:31 PM, said:

I need help! I am trying to draw Kivan for the art challenge. I'd like to draw his equipment in a realistic way: I'd like him to wear his trademark cloak AND a quiver. While searching for reference photos, I noticed that the belt(s) of the quiver must pass around the archer's waist, making wearing a cloak quite uncomfortable.

On the other hand, if the quiver is attached to the belts only in the 'upper part' (therefore it is not attached to the belts around the waist) it becomes 'unstable' and could 'dangle' left and right while the archer is running.

I whish I had the LoTR DVDs because iirc Legolas used to have a cloak, a quiver, a bow and a pair of swords on his back o_O how's it possible? Seldarine powers? Velcro?? ;-)

Do you have any suggestion? I attach some quick sketches to explain my problem better

Actually, my quiver doesn't dangle left and right while running. It is notched at the last hole of the belt across my chest, and lies flat to my body. Yes, I am female and have breasts that probably help that, but if it's a guy wearing it he could tighten the belt too (though not on my quiver, as it's on the last hole as I said).


I don't know hot to manage him wearing it with the cloak, though. When wearing a cloak he'd likely not wear a back quiver, but more likely a quiver at the waist, but I guess the artist who originally drew him didn't consider that.


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[Aliya]

Maybe more realistic is the first version. I didn't see, anything familiar, with version #2. Even in Diablo, amazons have the quiver, behind their backs, like in #1.

[Epantiras]

Second attempt ;-) I attach a sketch below. I know it's a bit messy, but it's better than explaining it only with words ;-)
it's a belt that runs around the archer's torso. The quiver is attached to the *upper* part of the belt with other two belts that pass on his shoulders. two belts instead of only one should be better. Plus add Seldarine magic, elf awesomess and velcro ;-)

What do you think??

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[Jazhara7]

Epantiras, on Oct 27 2008, 09:46 PM, said:

Second attempt ;-) I attach a sketch below. I know it's a bit messy, but it's better than explaining it only with words ;-)
it's a belt that runs around the archer's torso. The quiver is attached to the *upper* part of the belt with other two belts that pass on his shoulders. two belts instead of only one should be better. Plus add Seldarine magic, elf awesomess and velcro ;-)

What do you think??

And I again tell you, the single belt across the chest works fine. I have one of those quivers! I can run with it without problems. It sits tight and doesn't require any extra fastening. A second belt across the shoulder wouldn't accomplish anything, by the way, not to mention it would make shooting the bow very uncomfortable (remember that the shooting position is sideways). The only thing you have to remember is to have the upper end of the belt be broader.

I can take a picture tomorrow, and even a short film might be possible. But I assure you, the regular back quiver with the single belt works without problems or jumping, as long as it is tightened properly.


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Edited by Jazhara7, 27 October 2008 - 01:03 PM.

[Epantiras]

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I can take a picture tomorrow, and even a short film might be possible. But I assure you, the regular back quiver with the single belt works without problems or jumping, as long as it is tightened properly.

I would be grateful ;-) my only doubt about using quiver version #1 is that the belt runs around both torso *and* cloak, it means that it prevents the cloak to be 'moved freely':

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Edited by Epantiras, 27 October 2008 - 01:35 PM.

[Deathsangel]

What if the quiver is only attached to the shoulder part? Than you can run the belt under the cloak and can draw it the same way... might be slightly unrealistic though. Jazhara probably knows better.

[Silinde Ar-Feiniel]

Here are some Legolas pics (and one of a figure) in order to use as references. Hope it helps a little...

[Shae]

I will be very unhelpful now by saying that I just love your Kivan modelling the various quivers XB

But I would have thought the first one too, and with the second attempt side belt I think that would work as well. It may not add anything, but it looks like it does

Looking at the Legolas pictures, I... Wait, what? I don't get how that thing can go over his back, connect at his side and not catch up his cloak o.O Especially since his cloak seems to be all free-flowing on both sides. He cheats! However he does show an example of a cloak going behind rather than over the shoulders. I was thinking that perhaps wearing a cloak in such a way might allow you to have the quiver somehow attached or hanging over the shoulder (and therefore over the cloak), while the belt runs under the cloak... But then I just realized it would probably wag all over the place and be very unstable. Boo. You could always cut a slit in the cloak for the quiver? :3

But anyway, does Kivan even have a back quiver in his portrait? I see a strap running across his chest under his cloak, but that doesn't have to be a quiver (and I don't see any arrows behind his head.... Wait, that could be arrows... or a tree... or a dinosaur). So he could have a waist/leg/any other quiver.

Edited by Shae, 27 October 2008 - 09:28 PM.

[Epantiras]

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Here are some Legolas pics (and one of a figure) in order to use as references. Hope it helps a little...

Thank you Silinde for the pictures ;-) but I still can't figure out how Legola's quiver is connected to the belts!!
I browsed the Imdb page of the Lotr movies looking for more pictures of Legolas, but I could not find a picture of him with both quiver and cloak *from behind*

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You could always cut a slit in the cloak for the quiver? :3

that could work... or maybe he's using velcro ;-)

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But anyway, does Kivan even have a back quiver in his portrait? I see a strap running across his chest under his cloak, but that doesn't have to be a quiver (and I don't see any arrows behind his head.... Wait, that could be arrows... or a tree... or a dinosaur). So he could have a waist/leg/any other quiver.

nope, he does not ;-) but in my imagination he does! Now, if my imagination could tell me *how* his quiver can go over the cloak, I'd be happy :-P
uhm... how do those waist/leg/any other quiver work? I've never seen pictures of them (besides the Drawing for Campaign Setting topic) but my knowledge about quivers is very limited

EDIT

While googling for 'quiver belt' I found a reviewabout the action figure of Faramir and... THE TRUTH HAS BEEN DISCOVERED!!

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To ensure that the Ithilien Ranger is camouflaged at all times and ready to fire multiple salvos of arrows at the enemy, a hole is cut in the cloak to allow the quiver straps to be secured under the cloak while the quiver is strapped neatly over the cloak.

So, whad do you think? ;-)

Edited by Epantiras, 28 October 2008 - 01:53 AM.

[Silinde Ar-Feiniel]

I've never thought that a hole is cut in the cloak. But it does make sence. In order to be camouflaged there's no other way but to keep the quiver straps under the cloak...

[Aliya]

Hey, Epantiras! Why don't you try drawing a quiver, which will hand down like a backpack? I think, it would be nice.

[Jazhara7]

Silinde Ar-Feiniel, on Oct 28 2008, 01:46 AM, said:

As a side note, he's wearing that quiver the wrong way, I think. The longer wall has to be at the bottom.



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[Epantiras]

Bhahaha, life has irony in it... I've started playing the Kivan mod for BG2 some days ago... now see what he told Charname in the De'arnise stronghold!

I already have a 4hr worth pencil sketch of him wearing the quiver on his back in LoTR style and SEE what he DARED to say yesterday! ;-)







Now I can't decide... shall I leave the back quiver or modify it and add a quiver hanging form his belt??

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As a side note, he's wearing that quiver the wrong way, I think. The longer wall has to be at the bottom.

stupid elf (or stupid character designer)

Edited by Epantiras, 30 October 2008 - 12:59 AM.

[Jazhara7]

Epantiras, on Oct 30 2008, 09:57 AM, said:

Bhahaha, life has irony in it... I've started playing the Kivan mod for BG2 some days ago... now see what he told Charname in the De'arnise stronghold!

I already have a 4hr worth pencil sketch of him wearing the quiver on his back in LoTR style and SEE what he DARED to say yesterday! ;-)







Now I can't decide... shall I leave the back quiver or modify it and add a quiver hanging form his belt??

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As a side note, he's wearing that quiver the wrong way, I think. The longer wall has to be at the bottom.

stupid elf (or stupid character designer)

Don't mind him. Back quivers have their uses. The only misconception most people have is that *everyone* have a back quiver. I won't write down the endless rant again, but let's just say that it all depends on the situation, and to a large part also preference.


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[Icendoan]

I suppose a back quiver is preferable if you are moving a lot, or possibly hunting, because an easy to access a side quiver is, it would make a noise as you moved. It would also restrict some movement.

Icen

[Jazhara7]

Icendoan, on Oct 30 2008, 03:34 PM, said:

I suppose a back quiver is preferable if you are moving a lot, or possibly hunting, because an easy to access a side quiver is, it would make a noise as you moved. It would also restrict some movement.

Icen

But a back quiver makes even more noise (though you can dampen the noise with a cloth at the bottom, which also helps to prevent the tips from getting blunt from rubbing against each other, which apparently is a common problem with back quivers.) - Also, a back quiver is rather bad for hunting, since even if you have the arrows muffled, it is very easy to have them scrape along the quiver as you pull them out (a rather large movement, by the way. Another problem), which often is enough to alert a deer to your presence, and it will be gone faster than you can shoot after that.

Also, one type of hunting you won't use a back quiver for is in the forest, especially when going into the undergrowth. A back quiver increases your size, and also adds a place where any branch can easily get caught, hindering you constantly. So, if you're using it for hunting, it will only be in the open field.

There's not just one type of side quiver. There's the regular one that is basically just a tube at your side. There's native american ones, that can actually double as back quiver, or slung over just one arm (very flexible in how you carry those) - something interesting about those is that you can tip them over and the arrows won't slide out. Very useful if you're running. Another type of side quiver is used by the archery group that a friend is visiting. They're side quivers, and there's a separate compartment for every arrow, and in such a way that the arrows are secured and thus don't rattle or fall out - this is necessary because they also do horseback archery.

So, you see, there's more to a quiver than you would assume at first.



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[Orthodoxia]

I got the impression that the quiver on the back is simply the one most commonly known therefore immediately considered the "traditional proper" sort by the people who have vague information on the subject of archery.

[Epantiras]

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So, you see, there's more to a quiver than you would assume at first.

uhm... very interesting... I need to do more researches!!

EDIT: I've got a question about side quivers: as far as I have seen, it seems that most people hang it on the same side of their 'drawing hand' like here http://www.blueridge.../qvrflzsz/1.jpg am I correct?

Edited by Epantiras, 30 October 2008 - 11:07 AM.

[Icendoan]

Jazhara, would having a tube hanging by your side, like the one Enpantiras posted, have more opportunity to catch at branches, and particularly small branches and foliage which would be near there?

Icen