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Weird bug with Durlag Tower areas


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#1 Creepin

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 03:23 AM

I've encountered CTD while playing in Durlag's Tower, so before filing bugreport I decided to check what I could on my own.
The exact nature of CTD is that each time I tried to enter second level of Durlag's Tower dungeon (ARD012) after defeating 4 wardens I've got CTD in the middle of the area loading process. So I started checking everything that comes to my mind and everything was ok until I checked area transitions. It seems that while entry points on durlag tower underground levels were renamed in accordance with BW area naming, entrance names in area triggers remained the same as in stock BG. Here's an example:

In stock BG:
AR0511 - travel trigger "lift" has destination "AR0512 and "Exit0511" in it's entry point field
AR0512 - has entry point "Exit0511", where you're supposed to spawn when travelling from AR0511

In my BW I have:
ARD011 - travel trigger "lift" has destination "ARD012 and "Exit0511" in it's entry point field
ARD012 - has entry point "ExitD011", where you're supposed to spawn when travelling from ArD011
(note that entry point field of travel trigger haven't changed since stock BG and has no pair in BW environment anymore)

That's definitely the reason for my CTD - I tried renaming entry point in ARD012 back to "Exit0511" and I was able to travel between areas normally.
While this solves my problem, I still like to report this issue so it could be checked if it's native to BWP or something goes out of place when I assembled my instance of BW. Ideally I'm interested in knowing what exactly went wrong, even though I'm not having much hope on it :)

Attached Files


Edited by Creepin, 22 May 2009 - 04:06 AM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#2 erebusant

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 07:33 PM

I've encountered CTD while playing in Durlag's Tower, so before filing bugreport I decided to check what I could on my own.
The exact nature of CTD is that each time I tried to enter second level of Durlag's Tower dungeon (ARD012) after defeating 4 wardens I've got CTD in the middle of the area loading process. So I started checking everything that comes to my mind and everything was ok until I checked area transitions. It seems that while entry points on durlag tower underground levels were renamed in accordance with BW area naming, entrance names in area triggers remained the same as in stock BG. Here's an example:

In stock BG:
AR0511 - travel trigger "lift" has destination "AR0512 and "Exit0511" in it's entry point field
AR0512 - has entry point "Exit0511", where you're supposed to spawn when travelling from AR0511

In my BW I have:
ARD011 - travel trigger "lift" has destination "ARD012 and "Exit0511" in it's entry point field
ARD012 - has entry point "ExitD011", where you're supposed to spawn when travelling from ArD011
(note that entry point field of travel trigger haven't changed since stock BG and has no pair in BW environment anymore)

That's definitely the reason for my CTD - I tried renaming entry point in ARD012 back to "Exit0511" and I was able to travel between areas normally.
While this solves my problem, I still like to report this issue so it could be checked if it's native to BWP or something goes out of place when I assembled my instance of BW. Ideally I'm interested in knowing what exactly went wrong, even though I'm not having much hope on it :)

In a BGT game without BWP travel trigger "lift" has destination of ARD012 and "Exitd011" in it's entry point, so this is NOT a BGT issue....

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#3 Miloch

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Posted 22 May 2009 - 09:08 PM

May want to try a 'weidu --change-log ard012.are' and also for ard011.are.

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#4 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 08:19 AM

May want to try a 'weidu --change-log ard012.are' and also for ard011.are

Meaning to the not so fluent coders...

If you do not have the "- SoA" at the end of the game directory...
Go to the game directory.
Make a directory called "results" into your game directory.
Run the WeiDU.exe, and if you don't have one, make it from one of the setup-*modname.exe's by copying and renaming it as WeiDU.exe, and then run it.
Push about 10 time Enter and a console appeares.
Insert this:
--change-log ard011.are --out results --out results/log1.txt
And
--change-log ard012.are --out results --out results/log2.txt

If you do have the "-SoA" at the end...

Try opening a cmd window (on Vista, run "cmd.exe" in the start search, on XP I think it's MD-DOS Command Prompt under Accessories), then use "cd c:\games\BGII - SOA\" replacing c:\games\BGII - SOA\ with the exact path of where you installed BGII.

Then, run the cmd.exe again and insert "weidu.exe --change-log --out results --out results/log1.txt" and "weidu.exe --change-log --out results --out results/log2.txt" ...


These will make few files appear into the results directory just made, you should post the log's, and then there is also the unchanged backup files for each mod that you can try to replace the current one in the override folder... but make a back up of these files first!

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#5 Creepin

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 09:39 AM

Thanks Jarno Mikkola, it was excellent explanation :)

I'm attaching results to this post.

P.S. The same problem was with 3rd level and 4 elemental rooms therein but since the problem is obviously the same I didn't bothered change-logging these areas.
_____

Update:Now that I know how to use this change-log feature I see that only other mod affecting these areas was CoM BG1Adventure (adapted for BGT unless I'm mistaken), which bluntly overwrites said areas. Quick check with NearInfinity shows that the problem might indeed lie within mod's resources.
However, the fact is that BG1Adventure wasn't intended to be compatible with BGT, if you check mod's original files there's no such areas as ARD*** at all. Leomar's post in this thread makes me suspect that this grain of data could have been oversighted at the moment of BWP Fixpack fiddling with BG1A resources to make it compatible with BWP. I just checked BWP Fixpack resources, and there's ARD011.are in "bg1adventure\_depends\BGT\_copy\areas" folder containing this crashy inconsistence. By now I'm pretty sure this is the source of my problem, but still it would be great if someone with better knowledge of modding check it as well. :)

Here's a quote from "lift" transition trigger of ARD011.are from BWP Fixpack version of BG1A area:

Destination area: ARD012.ARE
Entrance name: Exit0511
Note new area name but old enrance name.

Attached Files

  • Attached File  log1.txt   319bytes   135 downloads
  • Attached File  log2.txt   265bytes   137 downloads

Edited by Creepin, 23 May 2009 - 10:10 AM.

The Old Gold - v0.2 WIP (mod for BGT/BWP/BWS)


#6 Miloch

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 10:05 AM

Meaning to the not so fluent coders...

Maybe that should be pinned somewhere for those who aren't familiar with 'weidu' and 'command prompts' :P. Because it is really helpful in narrowing these things down, unlike the WeiDU.log which is virtually worthless for BWP installs (information overload ftw).

In a BGT game without BWP travel trigger "lift" has destination of ARD012 and "Exitd011" in it's entry point, so this is NOT a BGT issue....

Same goes from my BWP install from a year ago. I slapped BGSpawn on it and no changes there either. So it really doesn't surprise me that the most likely culprit is this rogue conversion of BG1 Adventure, wherever that came from. There's a reason Ascension64 and I didn't do a shotgun release of our down-and-dirty conversion of the mod from two years ago and have been tweaking it ever since. Given what I recall of the mod, it makes sense too that this could happen if someone did a sloppy conversion of the Durlag's Tower material. Just a guess though, since I don't have the mod to look at it.

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#7 Creepin

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 10:24 AM

Well Miloch, I think you're too harsh towards BWP Fixpack.
As I understand it was huge job to do and I for once am grateful to Leomar (I think he's fixpack author) for it gives me an option to play heapload of mods I'd like to see in my BW. With a work of that magnitude mistakes are possible and this is what bugreports exists for :)

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#8 Miloch

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 10:32 AM

I'm not slamming the BWP or its Fixpack or Leomar. BG1 Adventure isn't a mod a "fixpack" could correct, since it wasn't in BGT format in this first place, and would be a lot more work than just doing a hasty conversion (as you know from your own study of the Vault, it would need to patch properly first, etc.).

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#9 Miloch

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 01:38 PM

Update:Now that I know how to use this change-log feature I see that only other mod affecting these areas was CoM BG1Adventure (adapted for BGT unless I'm mistaken), which bluntly overwrites said areas. Quick check with NearInfinity shows that the problem might indeed lie within mod's resources.
However, the fact is that BG1Adventure wasn't intended to be compatible with BGT, if you check mod's original files there's no such areas as ARD*** at all. Leomar's post in this thread makes me suspect that this grain of data could have been oversighted at the moment of BWP Fixpack fiddling with BG1A resources to make it compatible with BWP. I just checked BWP Fixpack resources, and there's ARD011.are in "bg1adventure\_depends\BGT\_copy\areas" folder containing this crashy inconsistence. By now I'm pretty sure this is the source of my problem, but still it would be great if someone with better knowledge of modding check it as well. :)

This is all absolutely correct, Creepin. I checked the BWP Fixpack and expected to find a reference to some sort of converted version of the mod, but there was nothing of the sort. Moreover, as you say, this mod is not compatible with BGT, Tutu or anything else in the first place, and it overwrites a whole bunch of areas, creatures, and other things to begin with, so changing the overwrites to "BGT versions" of the resources isn't going to make things any better.

Apparently, Dark Horizons slurped up Magnus's mods, and someone is working on converting that, but they're going to run into the same issues since it also blatantly overwrites the same resources. It's not going to be a quick or an easy task. Like I said, I spent many months analysing BG1 Adventure and fixing a lot of the glitches in it so trust me when I say I know what I'm talking about here. I did at least as much of an in-depth analysis as you did of the Vault.

So I would advise not using it for now. If people are really, really desperate for the mod, they'd be better off using Ascension64's automated conversion which at least patches the resources and uses proper BGT references. It has other issues, but not nearly as much as trying to install the original mod with a few extra overwrites. I'll see if it's in some sort of installable state, but it may take a while for me to dredge it up.

(And yes, if it sounds like I'm slamming the BWP Fixpack at this point, maybe I am :P. I had no idea it went this far. I realise it's a lot of work, and is admirable in many ways, but there really should be more validation before including things like this and saying it's ok for the public masses to install them. Moreover, it was fairly public information that A64 and I were working on a conversion of this, which had Magnus's approval. It's right there above Leomar's post in that thread you linked.)

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#10 Creepin

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 04:08 PM

So I would advise not using it for now.

Too late for me mate. :lol:
Guess I'll have to live with it in my current BWP build. Can't say there was much out of place to be honest and I'm nearing BG1 completion already. Thanks for doublechek btw, it's good to know I didn't blame wrong mod as being bugged :)

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#11 Miloch

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 05:21 PM

Can't say there was much out of place to be honest

Well, sure. The areas, creatures and whatnot that are getting overwritten are going to be from stock BG (with some resource references to the original BG1 DSotSC) so you might not notice much out of place at all. Which is the problem, because it's going to erase any changes whatever in those areas that other mods have made. Either that, or the resource references are totally wrong, and you're not going to notice anything at all, because you can't even access them :blink:. I don't know why this 'overwriting = bad, patching = good' concept is so hard to get across to the BWP folks, especially when they want to have working together as many mods as possible.

You might want to post a little more detail on how you 'fixed' this in your game, especially for folks who might not be familiar with editing tools, because other people have had this problem (or will soon enough if they don't take it out of the BWP).

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#12 Creepin

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Posted 23 May 2009 - 11:49 PM

You might want to post a little more detail on how you 'fixed' this in your game, especially for folks who might not be familiar with editing tools, because other people have had this problem (or will soon enough if they don't take it out of the BWP).

Done :)

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#13 Leomar

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 02:22 AM

Creepin and Miloch, thanks for your reports about the "BG1 Adventure Pack" problems. It looks like that the tests of this BGT compatible version was not so good as we thought. So very very sorry to all the gamers who installed this BGT compatible version. Creepin, thanks a lot for your description, how we can fix these bugs, which you described here:
http://www.shsforums...&...st&p=449016.

And Miloch, very sorry, but I haven't read about the problems before, that you and Ascension64 has a lot of problems with this mod. I think, if I knew it before, we have decided not to include it in the BWP. So thanks for the informations you gave us. Next time we'll search for such informations, before we try another BGT conversation...

At the moment the only thing what we can do to avoid this problem is, that I update the BWS for this case. The mod is shown as Standard-mod in the BWS and we'll change it, so the mod is shown as Expert-mod only [ DONE ]. Like I've told, we'll remove this mod from the BWP, so that this will never been happen again. Sorry again for the circumstances.

By the way, the BGT conversation of "Dark Horizons" is not made on the same way like it was done with "BG1 Adventure Pack". For BG1Adventures we used the BGT conversation tool and fixed some issues afterwards (that was the wrong way). For "Dark Horizons" we didn't use the BGT conversation tool. This BGT conversion was and is programmed completely from the beginning. And at the moment we try to fix upcoming bugs, so if we include "Dark Horizons" in the next BWP release, that you have less problems with it. Hopefully none. But not the bugs, like you have with the BG1Adventures now.

It seems that while entry points on durlag tower underground levels were renamed in accordance with BW area naming, entrance names in area triggers remained the same as in stock BG.

Only to let you know, that the BWP doesn't change such things and will never do it.

Greetings Leomar

Edited by Leomar, 28 May 2009 - 02:49 AM.

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#14 Creepin

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:39 PM

At the moment the only thing what we can do to avoid this problem is, that I update the BWS for this case. The mod is shown as Standard-mod in the BWS and we'll change it, so the mod is shown as Expert-mod only [ DONE ]. Like I've told, we'll remove this mod from the BWP, so that this will never been happen again. Sorry again for the circumstances.

Hmm... since it's already under Expert category, isn't it better to just fix few stupid data entries via BWFixpack and perhaps push this mod few dozen lines higher in install order than to remove the whole mod from install list? :blink: Unless Dark Horizons at the verge of being incorporated into BWP that is :)

Only to let you know, that the BWP doesn't change such things and will never do it.

Mea culpa. Probable it's BGT area naming to be precise, however what I meant was "area naming that used in BWP no matter where it came from" ;)

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#15 Chevalier

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Posted 28 May 2009 - 09:53 PM

Creepin,

Download the BGT version here and install order:

I think we'll start to test "Dark Horizons" at this place with the BWP:


07.03. The Lure of the Sirine's Call
07.04. The Stone of Askavar
07.05. Dark Horizons

08.03. Herbs and Potions Add-in for BG1
08.04. Thalantyr Item Upgrade


Do not install "Harder Enemies" component of current version it overwrites.



I installed mine before these directions came out (I installed it just before DSotSC), it install just fine and have not yet play tested yet. A Warning to All!

Edited by Chevalier, 28 May 2009 - 10:00 PM.

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#16 Headbanger

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 06:34 AM

Hello,

I have recently re-created some versions of bg1adventure and comforge. I have tested them on Tutu so far... However I did design the mods to be compatable with Tutu/BGT.

Sincerely,



Headbanger

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#17 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 07:31 AM

Hello, I have recently re-created some versions of bg1adventure and comforge.

COM Forge forum, BG1Adventure forum. So you could contact CoM_Solaufein for example and ask for permission etc. Even in from SHS, link to his profile.

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 29 May 2009 - 07:38 AM.

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#18 Miloch

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 08:23 AM

Hello, I have recently re-created some versions of bg1adventure and comforge.

You've got to be kidding me, another reinvention of the wheel? :P This will probably have similar issues to those I indicated here (post #6), though it seems to be patching instead of overwriting at least, and similar to Ascension64's and my conversion of 2 years ago (suspiciously similar, perhaps :blink:).

COM Forge forum, BG1Adventure forum. So you could contact CoM_Solaufein for example and ask for permission etc. Even in from SHS, link to his profile.

CoM_Solaufein isn't the author of those mods (despite whether he incorporated them into his mod) - Magnus was, and he gave us (A64 and me) permission to convert them before he left the forums. FWIW, they're not protected by any special license or anything (though we don't really need 50 versions of them floating around... :ph34r:).

Edit: hyperlink

Edited by Miloch, 29 May 2009 - 08:25 AM.

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#19 Creepin

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:08 AM

COM Forge forum, BG1Adventure forum. So you could contact CoM_Solaufein for example and ask for permission etc. Even in from SHS, link to his profile.

You've got to be kidding me, another reinvention of the wheel? :P This will probably have similar issues to those I indicated here (post #6), though it seems to be patching instead of overwriting at least, and similar to Ascension64's and my conversion of 2 years ago (suspiciously similar, perhaps :blink:).

Your reaction puzzles me to be honest. I don't think Headbanger was about asking permission neither does he need one. He improved a mod and shares this improved version with community so that others might benefit from his work too. If someone don't want/need this version, fine, I'm sure there'll be someone who'll find a good use to less buggy versions and will be grateful to improvements' author. What's the reason for all these bragging about permissions and years since that was done by someone? None of you who were having this bug-free CoM Adventures for years cared to share it with the rest of us after all, while Headbanger did.

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#20 Jarno Mikkola

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Posted 29 May 2009 - 10:19 AM

COM Forge forum, BG1Adventure forum. So you could contact CoM_Solaufein for example and ask for permission etc. Even in from SHS, link to his profile.


Your reaction puzzles me to be honest. I don't think Headbanger was about asking permission neither does he need one. He improved a mod and shares this improved version with community so that others might benefit from his work too. If someone don't want/need this version, fine, I'm sure there'll be someone who'll find a good use to less buggy versions and will be grateful to improvements' author. What's the reason for all these bragging about permissions and years since that was done by someone? None of you who were having this bug-free CoM Adventures for years cared to share it with the rest of us after all, while Headbanger did.

Well, on my part, I can say that had he done as I think I was instructing him.... he would have permission to replace the downloading links in CoM, so everyone could use it, not just us the SHS/megamoders.

CoM_Solaufein isn't the author of those mods (despite whether he incorporated them into his mod) - Magnus was, and he gave us (A64 and me) permission to convert them before he left the forums.

No, but he is the most active moderator/Admin there today. So at least in theory one can approach these things with him(BGT/Tutu upgrades etc.).

Edited by Jarno Mikkola, 29 May 2009 - 10:23 AM.

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