11 replies to this topic

[Zyrusticae]

So... yeah. Topic says it all.

I want to know which of these mods causes those blasted cheating mages with their absurd insta-buffing. (I don't even know why anyone would want this in the first place - having to have dispel or remove magic memorized for every single battle is hardly fun...).

Weidu log attached.

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[Jarno Mikkola]

You installed either SCS or SCSII...
Didn't need to look your WeiDU.log for that, either, but you could have, and noticed it there, I am sure.

[kthxbye]

Here it is:
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5033 // Smarter mages -> Mages use spells from BG1 and BG2; mages pre-buff: v12
~SETUP-SCS.TP2~ #0 #5043 // Smarter priests -> Priests use spells from BG1 and BG2; priests pre-buff: v12
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6150 // Smarter Mages -> Mages cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v8
~SCSII/SETUP-SCSII.TP2~ #0 #6160 // Smarter Priests -> Priests cast some short-duration spells instantly at start of combat, to simulate pre-battle casting: v8

And, by the way, it's not strictly cheating. As if it is, then the player cheats too since without those components the player character can prebuff while the mages he fight will be naked.

[10th]

Moreover, you also installed BPv177. That means that you installed two AI-enhancing mods. Due to SCS(II)' pretty compatible coding, it stacks with some other AI-enhancing mods.

Therefore you're getting BP AI and SCS AI as well.

Until a new version of Big Picture is released I'd suggest you decide which of them you'd rather use.

10th

[Zyrusticae]

For the record, I can only pre-buff if I'm metagaming (yes, I know, this is expected and even required by tactical mods) and know exactly where and when the next battle will be and whether or not I even need to buff in the first place. Besides that I can't really counter pre-buffing when I'm using level 1 mages and the enemy is at least level 9, hmm?

...Actually, that I also need to know: Is Silke level 9 (she's at least that, as I can only judge by her use of Magic Missile getting 5 missiles) by default? And if not, what mod causes it?

Oh, thanks for the info, by the by.

[Icendoan]

iirc, she got 5 MMs in Vanilla BG...

Icen

[Zyrusticae]

...Ayep, pre-buffing is staying firmly off, then.

Thanks for the input.

[Miloch]

...Actually, that I also need to know: Is Silke level 9 (she's at least that, as I can only judge by her use of Magic Missile getting 5 missiles) by default? And if not, what mod causes it?

Silke is level 10 and actually in the vanilla game does not get all the spells she should have - only the magic missiles, a couple lightning bolts and improved invisibility. So it is probably SCS giving her the pre-buff but this is one instance where it may actually make sense - she can see you coming a mile away and knows ahead of time she's going to attack you if you don't do what she wants. Personally, I think SCS abuses the prebuffing a bit overmuch though.

[Zyrusticae]

Hrmmm, y'know... That's kinda cruel. There's simply no way I can even get my party up to level 2 by that point in the game, so, ah... how am I supposed to take on a wizard with Mirror Image, Stoneskin, and Protection from Normal Missiles all enabled in an instant?

Granted, I could metagame and skip that quest entirely and come back later, but like I heavily implied before, I'd really prefer to avoid that. We'll see if I manage to not be horribly annihilated on my playthrough with pre-buffing disabled...

[kthxbye]

For the record, I can only pre-buff if I'm metagaming (yes, I know, this is expected and even required by tactical mods) and know exactly where and when the next battle will be and whether or not I even need to buff in the first place. Besides that I can't really counter pre-buffing when I'm using level 1 mages and the enemy is at least level 9, hmm?

Actually, I'm currently running a no-reload no-metagaming full-rpg challenge right now with SCS, and it's going pretty good so far.
While I don't prebuff with short lasting spells, I think it is more than plausible someone risking his life will prebuff with spells that lasts a lot (mage armor, remove fear - actually I use RF as prebuff AND keep another one ready - and the like).

I agree with you on Silke, anyway. She's the ONLY exception I made so far, as with prebuffs (which are legit, I think, since she knows what's going to happen) you can't hit her in order to interrupt her casting. It's quite true also in a vanilla game, anyway: if you can't interrupt her with your first hit, she will use a chain lighting in an unmodded game, and a lvl 10 chain lighting is deadly to a level 1 or 2 character even without mods. I think it's developers' fault here, putting a level 10 bard to fight at the beginning.
I may address this issue, lowering her level, in a component of my next project.

EDIT: oh, and I think SCS has the option to choose which kind of spells mages and clerics prebuff with. Not sure, though.

Edited by kthxbye, 24 June 2009 - 12:42 PM.

[Miloch]

It's quite true also in a vanilla game, anyway: if you can't interrupt her with your first hit, she will use a chain lighting in an unmodded game, and a lvl 10 chain lighting is deadly to a level 1 or 2 character even without mods. I think it's developers' fault here, putting a level 10 bard to fight at the beginning.

It's just regular lightning bolts not chain lightning (3rd instead of 6th level spell) but yes, still not fun. Although somewhat tough, I've never had a real problem with her (possibly not even with SCS) because there are, after all, usually 6 of you against her and any well-formed party will have some good archers that can take her out pretty fast even with buffs. Even if you have a party mostly 1st and 2nd level, your combined levels will probably equal hers (or should anyway, by the time you walk to and from FAI etc.) so I don't know if that's a really good argument for nerfing her level.

[kthxbye]

Whops, wrong name, my bad.
About her level: I know, and if I'll do it, I'll add it to a component which explicitly says it changes some battles in a pretty sensible manner (even if Silke is now the only one that comes to mind). That's because I was wiped out a lot of times against her with SCS, even with a party of six: Silke got improved invisible plus mirror imaged, so my characters couldn't target her with spells and hit her very rarely with weapons, thus taking down her mirror images really slow. In the meantime, she took down one character per round with either magic missiles or the lighting bolt, renewing her mirrored images when needed.
Also, she's right in the middle of a "starting town", so the player can't say like "whoops my bad, I wasn't supposed to go to Ulcaster yet", since Silke is thrown to the player as if she was supposed to be confronted early.

Anyway: I really don't like the option to nerf her, but I find the chances too slim to take on her early while roleplaying, probably because it's been a while that I play no-reload or don't play at all, and repeating all the game right from the start everytime I reach her is frustrating.
Obviously things changes if there is a potion of magic protection or something like that easily obtainable in Beregost always by roleplaying. I could add that instead of nerfing Silke, now that I think about it.

Edited by kthxbye, 24 June 2009 - 10:29 PM.